HND to Osaka ITM flights - the future?
Mar 30, 2019, 9:13 pm
#1
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HND to Osaka ITM flights - the future?
I have a general question for this forum. I recently flew HND-ITM. The only reason was because I redeemed miles and therefore saved on the bullet train fare. Otherwise I would have taken the train.
As expected, the journey took around twice as long, even including arriving only slightly more than 45 minutes before my flight from HND.
I’m curious what people think as to how long routes such as this will last, given the speed, frequency and flexibility of the bullet train. Most cash tickets on the route are a similar price or more than the train (admittedly sometimes a little cheaper).
I’m assuming there must be very little connecting traffic on the route (most other passengers were in business suits).
As expected, the journey took around twice as long, even including arriving only slightly more than 45 minutes before my flight from HND.
I’m curious what people think as to how long routes such as this will last, given the speed, frequency and flexibility of the bullet train. Most cash tickets on the route are a similar price or more than the train (admittedly sometimes a little cheaper).
I’m assuming there must be very little connecting traffic on the route (most other passengers were in business suits).
Mar 30, 2019, 11:10 pm
#2
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How on earth does it take twice as long as the train? I've traveled between Tokyo and Osaka dozens, maybe hundreds of times, both by air and by train, and the door-to-door travel time from origin to my final destination is about the same either way. I cannot imagine any circumstances under which it would take twice as long.
Mar 30, 2019, 11:14 pm
#3
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I do think there is a decent amount of connecting traffic, which will probably stick around.
The current Shinkansen takes about 2h 30m on shorttest connection The plane is scheduled for 1h 5m then you need maybe 30 minutes extra at the airport if you don't have luggage. As most people probably don't. So which one wins really depends on your starting point and ending point in relation to plane or train departure/arrival point. But I do think a lot of people take the plane more as a principle than as a practical solution.
Once the maglev Shinkansen reaches Osaka (if ever) , I doubt the planes will get many passengers on this stretch. I would personally go for the train to Osaka any day, though with a few recent cases of JR being a very unreliable transport provider for me, I might revisit that thought.
The current Shinkansen takes about 2h 30m on shorttest connection The plane is scheduled for 1h 5m then you need maybe 30 minutes extra at the airport if you don't have luggage. As most people probably don't. So which one wins really depends on your starting point and ending point in relation to plane or train departure/arrival point. But I do think a lot of people take the plane more as a principle than as a practical solution.
Once the maglev Shinkansen reaches Osaka (if ever) , I doubt the planes will get many passengers on this stretch. I would personally go for the train to Osaka any day, though with a few recent cases of JR being a very unreliable transport provider for me, I might revisit that thought.
Mar 30, 2019, 11:17 pm
#4
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How on earth does it take twice as long as the train? I've traveled between Tokyo and Osaka dozens, maybe hundreds of times, both by air and by train, and the door-to-door travel time from origin to my final destination is about the same either way. I cannot imagine any circumstances under which it would take twice as long.
Mar 31, 2019, 12:03 am
#5
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I think there's also a consideration on pricing as well. I believe Shinkansen fares are fixed while airfares do change dynamically.
Domestic flights in Japan is also very fast and efficient, you just need to pass through security between 15-30 mins (depending on airport).
Domestic flights in Japan is also very fast and efficient, you just need to pass through security between 15-30 mins (depending on airport).
Mar 31, 2019, 2:44 am
#6
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Apologies, just to clarify, I appreciate I mentioned I was visiting Osaka, however I was actually travelling first to Kyoto (which is a slightly shorter distance on the bullet train). Apologies for this. I had a checked case, and door to door was slightly over 4 hours (including 20 minute delayed arrival into ITM) vs circa 2hr 30 for me on the train. Appreciate that exact start and end points at each destination will affect timings. Usually the frequency and relative flexibility of the train is major advantage for me. However I was just curious as to people’s viewpoint.
Mar 31, 2019, 2:51 am
#7
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Going to Kyoto I would never fly, even with the saving coming from booking an award. It is just too much of a detour to go to ITM and then back track to Kyoto. The Shinkansen is only 13000 yen or so, not worth the extra time.
Mar 31, 2019, 11:17 pm
#8
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It isn't a JAL specific issue. So, maybe, moving to other threads is better. But.
One BIG disadvantage of Shinkan-sen/train system in Japan is the start date of reservation.
ANA provides 355 days advance booking for domestic flights. Even JAL provides 2 months advance or sometimes 6 months for discount fare.
JR provides only 1 month advanced reservation. How can people secure their seats ?
One BIG disadvantage of Shinkan-sen/train system in Japan is the start date of reservation.
ANA provides 355 days advance booking for domestic flights. Even JAL provides 2 months advance or sometimes 6 months for discount fare.
JR provides only 1 month advanced reservation. How can people secure their seats ?
Mar 31, 2019, 11:27 pm
#9
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It isn't a JAL specific issue. So, maybe, moving to other threads is better. But.
One BIG disadvantage of Shinkan-sen/train system in Japan is the start date of reservation.
ANA provides 355 days advance booking for domestic flights. Even JAL provides 2 months advance or sometimes 6 months for discount fare.
JR provides only 1 month advanced reservation. How can people secure their seats ?
One BIG disadvantage of Shinkan-sen/train system in Japan is the start date of reservation.
ANA provides 355 days advance booking for domestic flights. Even JAL provides 2 months advance or sometimes 6 months for discount fare.
JR provides only 1 month advanced reservation. How can people secure their seats ?
Apr 1, 2019, 12:56 am
#10
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Except for new year's,, obon, and golden week, they secure seats easily within a day or two from departure On a day to day basis, getting a seat on the Shinkansen is not a problem. I usually buy my Shinkansen tickets within an hour of wanting to travel. Actually the big advantage over flying, always seats available (except the three peaks) and no surge pricing for last minute booking.
However, while the flight frequencies may decrease once the Chuo Shinkansen is completed, there will still be a market for feeder flights to Haneda and Narita. That assumes, of course, the government decides to keep ITM open and not shift flights to KIX and UKB...
Apr 1, 2019, 1:10 am
#11
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Indeed. There are just so many more seats available between Tokyo and Osaka on the shinkansen vs. all flights between the two cities combined.
However, while the flight frequencies may decrease once the Chuo Shinkansen is completed, there will still be a market for feeder flights to Haneda and Narita. That assumes, of course, the government decides to keep ITM open and not shift flights to KIX and UKB...
However, while the flight frequencies may decrease once the Chuo Shinkansen is completed, there will still be a market for feeder flights to Haneda and Narita. That assumes, of course, the government decides to keep ITM open and not shift flights to KIX and UKB...
Apr 1, 2019, 5:33 am
#12
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When I took my very first Shinkansen trip in 1994, I bought my ticket weeks in advance. As an American, I was conditioned to plan far in advance to make sure I got the best prices and seats. My Japanese friends all laughed at me for buying my ticket so early.
Apr 1, 2019, 5:35 am
#13
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Apr 5, 2019, 6:44 am
#14
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This is a very healthy route, and used heavily by business people shuttling between the two metropolises.
Tourist/leisure travellers like you might "prefer" the shinkansen, but the shink in itself doesnt provide any elite benefits to use it frequently.
I am a heavy user of this route (at least a week return, sometimes twice a week Tokyo - Osaka).
I see no additional benefits to using the shink for 100 return trips a year, but the same 100 return trips on JAL gets me Diamond/Oneworld emerald (and the obvious benefits).
Definitely some business people are pro-shinkansen (especially if living near Shin-Yokohama or going to nearby Kyoto/Kobe/Himeji).
The shink and its flexibility (on fully fare tickets, you can change the shink train as long as it is at least a minute before departure), and the shink nozomi has 10 minute frequency during the day ( 6 trains/hour).
I personally switched from the shink to flights in my second year of traveling after I realized what an idiot I was for missing Diamond, and never looked back.
So, the future is still very bright
(lets wait and see what the linear maglev train will bring to the table, and how it will be priced in 2050s!)
Tourist/leisure travellers like you might "prefer" the shinkansen, but the shink in itself doesnt provide any elite benefits to use it frequently.
I am a heavy user of this route (at least a week return, sometimes twice a week Tokyo - Osaka).
I see no additional benefits to using the shink for 100 return trips a year, but the same 100 return trips on JAL gets me Diamond/Oneworld emerald (and the obvious benefits).
Definitely some business people are pro-shinkansen (especially if living near Shin-Yokohama or going to nearby Kyoto/Kobe/Himeji).
The shink and its flexibility (on fully fare tickets, you can change the shink train as long as it is at least a minute before departure), and the shink nozomi has 10 minute frequency during the day ( 6 trains/hour).
I personally switched from the shink to flights in my second year of traveling after I realized what an idiot I was for missing Diamond, and never looked back.
So, the future is still very bright
(lets wait and see what the linear maglev train will bring to the table, and how it will be priced in 2050s!)