Japan - Overrated or Underrated?
Apr 22, 2012, 7:22 pm
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Wales, UK
Posts: 9
Japan - Overrated or Underrated?
From my experience online, I have found that Japan is unique with the type of attraction it has to people.
I've found that it's quite an unknown destination to the average person, but the people who do want to go to Japan... well, a LOT of them are quite obsessive. Surely people must know what I mean; the ones who talk about nothing else, rip on their own culture while adoring Japan's, constantly talking about exchange programs and wanting to live there.
You may think there's not many people like that, but from what I've seen they're the vast majority of people who like Japan. I would link to some pages of what I mean, but I highly doubt that's allowed here.
Anyway, what I was hoping to talk about here, is if the people of FT think Japan is underrated because of its lack of tourists, or overrated because of the people obsessed with the place. Or for any other reasons you hay have of course
As someone who has traveled there twice, I think it's a great place. But unfortunately has been hyped up to far more than it really is. Since going there I've been to other countries which I would recommend a little more than Japan.
I found one of the most overrated things to be the kindness of the people portrayed. A few times I had to ask for directions or the time. I asked in Japanese which I have been studying for a few years, and the people were extremely evasive when answering, some not even looking. I got ignored completely on several occasions. The only portrayed kindness I experienced was the 'Irasshaimase' when entering shops and one elderly woman who asked me where I came from when I asked directions.
So what do you think? Any experiences?
I've found that it's quite an unknown destination to the average person, but the people who do want to go to Japan... well, a LOT of them are quite obsessive. Surely people must know what I mean; the ones who talk about nothing else, rip on their own culture while adoring Japan's, constantly talking about exchange programs and wanting to live there.
You may think there's not many people like that, but from what I've seen they're the vast majority of people who like Japan. I would link to some pages of what I mean, but I highly doubt that's allowed here.
Anyway, what I was hoping to talk about here, is if the people of FT think Japan is underrated because of its lack of tourists, or overrated because of the people obsessed with the place. Or for any other reasons you hay have of course
As someone who has traveled there twice, I think it's a great place. But unfortunately has been hyped up to far more than it really is. Since going there I've been to other countries which I would recommend a little more than Japan.
I found one of the most overrated things to be the kindness of the people portrayed. A few times I had to ask for directions or the time. I asked in Japanese which I have been studying for a few years, and the people were extremely evasive when answering, some not even looking. I got ignored completely on several occasions. The only portrayed kindness I experienced was the 'Irasshaimase' when entering shops and one elderly woman who asked me where I came from when I asked directions.
So what do you think? Any experiences?
Apr 23, 2012, 9:36 am
#2
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota,USA
Programs: UA, NW
Posts: 3,752
I love going to Japan, but I also know its flaws, perhaps better than someone who has been there only as a tourist.
For example, the storied politeness flies out the window when you're on a commuter train at rush hour or when a bureaucrat is trying to throw his weight around. Although things have improved vastly since I first went to Japan in the 1970s, one often sees scenes of environmental degradation that are at odds with the country's supposed love of nature. It builds world-class public transit systems but also spends enormous amounts of money on super highways to nowhere. Its educational system gives it perhaps the highest average level of functional literacy anywhere, but the pressures of this system create social misfits. It is a peaceful society with some of the grossest horror fiction and movies ever. Private spaces tend to be antiseptically clean, while public spaces, especially toilets, can be downright squalid. They treat visitors as honored guests, but except in certain provincial areas, they're not really friendly, as in "open to casual conversations with strangers."
I could go on, but on the whole, I enjoy being in Japan, perhaps because this homogenous society is so full of contradictions and odd little aspects that somehow thrive. The first time I went (for a year's stay), I was afraid that I
In my experience, most tourists who are not interested in going to Japan (other than those who simply aren't interested in Asia, period) believe that it is impossibly expensive. In fact, one can travel in comfort and safety, although not luxuriously, for less than one can travel in comfort and safety in northern Europe.
I think it's a great first Asian country to visit. It's different from Western countries, and yet the visitor is unlikely to encounter any street crime or scams or contract any unpleasant diseases. But other countries have their attractions, too.
For example, the storied politeness flies out the window when you're on a commuter train at rush hour or when a bureaucrat is trying to throw his weight around. Although things have improved vastly since I first went to Japan in the 1970s, one often sees scenes of environmental degradation that are at odds with the country's supposed love of nature. It builds world-class public transit systems but also spends enormous amounts of money on super highways to nowhere. Its educational system gives it perhaps the highest average level of functional literacy anywhere, but the pressures of this system create social misfits. It is a peaceful society with some of the grossest horror fiction and movies ever. Private spaces tend to be antiseptically clean, while public spaces, especially toilets, can be downright squalid. They treat visitors as honored guests, but except in certain provincial areas, they're not really friendly, as in "open to casual conversations with strangers."
I could go on, but on the whole, I enjoy being in Japan, perhaps because this homogenous society is so full of contradictions and odd little aspects that somehow thrive. The first time I went (for a year's stay), I was afraid that I
In my experience, most tourists who are not interested in going to Japan (other than those who simply aren't interested in Asia, period) believe that it is impossibly expensive. In fact, one can travel in comfort and safety, although not luxuriously, for less than one can travel in comfort and safety in northern Europe.
I think it's a great first Asian country to visit. It's different from Western countries, and yet the visitor is unlikely to encounter any street crime or scams or contract any unpleasant diseases. But other countries have their attractions, too.
Apr 23, 2012, 11:01 am
#3
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: London
Posts: 18,404
One of the most beguiling qualities of Japan is that visitors usually have all their preconceived ideas and expectations validated and fulfilled when they go there. Those who look for a geek’s paradise with maid cafes and robot toys will focus on this aspect, others will focus on the traditional arts, others on the geisha/maiko subculture, others on the corporate business culture, others on the niche markets where a lot of effort goes to rooting out whalemeat icecream, live fish sashimi, ramen broth baths and apartments where all the walls are made of glass and the conclusion then made that these anomalies are the norm in whacky whacky Japan - they all seem to find the countries they paid to see.
I have to admit that I also had a lot of my preconceived notions of what Japan was like reinforced on my first visits and it took me a while before I was able to identify these and start dismantling them (this forum did a lot to destroy my blinkered view and help me peek at the country from different perspectives). Seeing Japan as it is, not as we want it to be or expect it to be, can be a challenge. The problem is that many of these myths and clichés are good for business so there’s little incentive for the Japanese to confront or rectify them.
I do get annoyed with those same fantasists and apologists that you’ve spoken to and about, those who might say that the dreary skyline of Osaka is one of the world’s greatest or that the view from the window of a shinkansen hurtling between Osaka and Tokyo is one of the top scenic rail experiences. But this phenomenon has been going on for a very long time – one only needs to read some of Basil Hall Chamberlain’s accounts from over a century ago to see how little has changed in this regard. Here's a classic example:
"...Europe and America evince a singular taste for the marvellous, and find a zest in self-depreciation. Our eighteenth-century ancestors imagined all perfections to be realised in China, thanks to the glowing descriptions then given of that country by the Jesuits. Twentieth-century Europe finds its moral and political Eldorado in distant Japan, a land of fabulous antiquity and incredible virtues. There is no lack of pleasant-mannered persons ready to guide trustful admirers in the right path. Official and semi-official Japanese, whether ambassadors and ministers-resident or peripatetic counts and barons, make it their business to spread a legend so pleasing to the national vanity, so useful as a diplomatic engine. Lectures are delivered, books are written in English, important periodicals are bought up, minute care is lavished on the concealment, the patching-up, and glossing-over of the deep gulf that nevertheless is fixed between East and West. The foreigner cannot refuse the bolus thus artfully forced down his throat. He is not suspicious by nature. How should he imagine that people who make such positive statements about their own country are merely exploiting his credulity? HE has reached a stage of culture where such mythopoeia has become impossible. On the other hand, to control information by consulting original sources lies beyond his capacity." ... or desire* (*my view)
http://www.gutenberg.org/files/2510/2510-h/2510-h.htm
As to the hospitality side – it will depend an awful lot on who you are, what you look like and where you go. As a Caucasian female who fits the “genki foreigner” profile when travelling alone the levels of courtesy and the kindness I’ve received from strangers has been, at times, overwhelming and there are many instances that I still recollect with tearful gratitude. When I’m with my Japanese husband I admit that I rarely experience anything approaching this kind of care and attention. I’ve also encountered some rather brutal rudeness and seen instances of seething spite that made "The Grudge" look like a documentary. I find the trick is not to actually ask for help but to give signs that you need it (i.e. don’t ask for directions, instead stand with a map and look confused. If you pick someone out yourself you have a chance of stumbling on the *holes, thankfully these same *holes rarely volunteer themselves)
It always used to bewilder me going back to London standing in the queues at Alicante airport having stayed with friends and family there (all Spanish). The lobster red Brits around me would be moaning about the pools at their hotels, or the plumbing, or the lack of 'decent' sausages having been holed up in some horrible resort hotel in Benidorm whilst I would be still prickling and shimmering after an incredible sleepless week at the St John Bonfire and Firework festival a short half hour journey away from where they'd stayed stuffing and cooking themselves whilst complaining about the crappy lounge entertainment.
We'd gone to the same area at the same time - I'm sure they thought the place was over rated.
I have to admit that I also had a lot of my preconceived notions of what Japan was like reinforced on my first visits and it took me a while before I was able to identify these and start dismantling them (this forum did a lot to destroy my blinkered view and help me peek at the country from different perspectives). Seeing Japan as it is, not as we want it to be or expect it to be, can be a challenge. The problem is that many of these myths and clichés are good for business so there’s little incentive for the Japanese to confront or rectify them.
I do get annoyed with those same fantasists and apologists that you’ve spoken to and about, those who might say that the dreary skyline of Osaka is one of the world’s greatest or that the view from the window of a shinkansen hurtling between Osaka and Tokyo is one of the top scenic rail experiences. But this phenomenon has been going on for a very long time – one only needs to read some of Basil Hall Chamberlain’s accounts from over a century ago to see how little has changed in this regard. Here's a classic example:
"...Europe and America evince a singular taste for the marvellous, and find a zest in self-depreciation. Our eighteenth-century ancestors imagined all perfections to be realised in China, thanks to the glowing descriptions then given of that country by the Jesuits. Twentieth-century Europe finds its moral and political Eldorado in distant Japan, a land of fabulous antiquity and incredible virtues. There is no lack of pleasant-mannered persons ready to guide trustful admirers in the right path. Official and semi-official Japanese, whether ambassadors and ministers-resident or peripatetic counts and barons, make it their business to spread a legend so pleasing to the national vanity, so useful as a diplomatic engine. Lectures are delivered, books are written in English, important periodicals are bought up, minute care is lavished on the concealment, the patching-up, and glossing-over of the deep gulf that nevertheless is fixed between East and West. The foreigner cannot refuse the bolus thus artfully forced down his throat. He is not suspicious by nature. How should he imagine that people who make such positive statements about their own country are merely exploiting his credulity? HE has reached a stage of culture where such mythopoeia has become impossible. On the other hand, to control information by consulting original sources lies beyond his capacity." ... or desire* (*my view)
http://www.gutenberg.org/files/2510/2510-h/2510-h.htm
As to the hospitality side – it will depend an awful lot on who you are, what you look like and where you go. As a Caucasian female who fits the “genki foreigner” profile when travelling alone the levels of courtesy and the kindness I’ve received from strangers has been, at times, overwhelming and there are many instances that I still recollect with tearful gratitude. When I’m with my Japanese husband I admit that I rarely experience anything approaching this kind of care and attention. I’ve also encountered some rather brutal rudeness and seen instances of seething spite that made "The Grudge" look like a documentary. I find the trick is not to actually ask for help but to give signs that you need it (i.e. don’t ask for directions, instead stand with a map and look confused. If you pick someone out yourself you have a chance of stumbling on the *holes, thankfully these same *holes rarely volunteer themselves)
It always used to bewilder me going back to London standing in the queues at Alicante airport having stayed with friends and family there (all Spanish). The lobster red Brits around me would be moaning about the pools at their hotels, or the plumbing, or the lack of 'decent' sausages having been holed up in some horrible resort hotel in Benidorm whilst I would be still prickling and shimmering after an incredible sleepless week at the St John Bonfire and Firework festival a short half hour journey away from where they'd stayed stuffing and cooking themselves whilst complaining about the crappy lounge entertainment.
We'd gone to the same area at the same time - I'm sure they thought the place was over rated.
Apr 23, 2012, 11:21 am
#4
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 225
I'm obviously biased, having lived and worked there for 11 years, but it really depends who you are and what your tastes are. I've had really amazing experiences all over the world, some unexpected and some expected.
I believe going to Japan with someone who really knows the place and speaks the language, helps out a lot. I do think, on a whole the Japanese are much more politer than most cultures, but sometimes you get a bad apple. Just like anywhere else though.
Every place in the world has something beautiful. I don't think Japan is overrated at all, just the Japan each individual sees may be different. I think Japanese food is amongst the best in the world, however, there are many with a different opinion.
Either way, I hope that when you go, you do find the same joy I found when I was there. It is one of my favorite places in the world for many, many reasons.
Lack of tourists now are because of the nuclear accident. Also, it's really difficult to go to Japan without the language. Sure, Japanese speak a basic English, but you really are only experiencing a superficial reality. It's daunting to not understand everything around you at all, especially when it's a culture so completely different from your own.
I don't think they were rude to you and ignored you maliciously when you were asking for directions. Most Japanese believe that their English isn't good enough so they would be more useless to you and waste your time than helpful. They are embarrassed and shy of foreigners. It's a very subtle xenophobia. They are scared of something they are not familiar with, or understand since they are such a homogenous culture. The Japanese culture is constantly centered around "what can I do to not bother the people around me". Often the answer is to steer clear.
Saying that though, that goes out the door at rush hour on the train, for sure. hahahaha
As @ksandness says, I think it's a great first for an Asian country. It's super clean, people are generally nice and it's fairly safe.
I believe going to Japan with someone who really knows the place and speaks the language, helps out a lot. I do think, on a whole the Japanese are much more politer than most cultures, but sometimes you get a bad apple. Just like anywhere else though.
Every place in the world has something beautiful. I don't think Japan is overrated at all, just the Japan each individual sees may be different. I think Japanese food is amongst the best in the world, however, there are many with a different opinion.
Either way, I hope that when you go, you do find the same joy I found when I was there. It is one of my favorite places in the world for many, many reasons.
Lack of tourists now are because of the nuclear accident. Also, it's really difficult to go to Japan without the language. Sure, Japanese speak a basic English, but you really are only experiencing a superficial reality. It's daunting to not understand everything around you at all, especially when it's a culture so completely different from your own.
I don't think they were rude to you and ignored you maliciously when you were asking for directions. Most Japanese believe that their English isn't good enough so they would be more useless to you and waste your time than helpful. They are embarrassed and shy of foreigners. It's a very subtle xenophobia. They are scared of something they are not familiar with, or understand since they are such a homogenous culture. The Japanese culture is constantly centered around "what can I do to not bother the people around me". Often the answer is to steer clear.
Saying that though, that goes out the door at rush hour on the train, for sure. hahahaha
As @ksandness says, I think it's a great first for an Asian country. It's super clean, people are generally nice and it's fairly safe.
Apr 24, 2012, 7:25 pm
#6
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: WAS
Posts: 873
I studied Japanese Studies in university, obsessed over the culture, and eventually spent a long summer there. I considered living there for a year, but it never worked out. However, over the years I gained a much more balanced view of Japan. Frequenting a message board of people teaching English all over the country, I learned about the good and the bad. The running joke was that some people come to Japan for "the green tea and onsens," or the superficial parts of Japan that aren't the "real" Japan.
Japan is like any other country in that what you get out of it depends on what you put in. Someone who works hard to "assimilate" will have a very different experience from someone who sticks with other foreigners. I think its different from other places in that there is a limitation to how far many people can assimilate because there is a form of cultural xenophobia that isn't found in many other places.
But jeez, if I hear another travel segment talking about Japan's unique mix of the "modern and traditional," I'm gonna puke. The same could be said of almost any country.
Japan is like any other country in that what you get out of it depends on what you put in. Someone who works hard to "assimilate" will have a very different experience from someone who sticks with other foreigners. I think its different from other places in that there is a limitation to how far many people can assimilate because there is a form of cultural xenophobia that isn't found in many other places.
But jeez, if I hear another travel segment talking about Japan's unique mix of the "modern and traditional," I'm gonna puke. The same could be said of almost any country.
Apr 26, 2012, 7:33 am
#9
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Apr 26, 2012, 7:33 am
#10
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: HND
Programs: JAL Sapphire
Posts: 542
I for one do this all the time -- it depends on your values and what drives you absolutely crazy.
They do say the grass is greener on the other side of the fence, but in some cases it is true. Japan has a ton of shortcomings, but so does everywhere else. Nationalists are too blind to see their own or their country's faults.
They do say the grass is greener on the other side of the fence, but in some cases it is true. Japan has a ton of shortcomings, but so does everywhere else. Nationalists are too blind to see their own or their country's faults.
Apr 26, 2012, 8:47 am
#11
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Join Date: Sep 2003
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