Venice to Limit Visitors, Turnstiles to get into San Marco?
 

Venice has just been getting killed by tourists who treat it like a theme park, and residents are fleeing in droves. This is what it was like last Sunday:
http://nuovavenezia.gelocal.it/venez...8?ref=search#1

And any other day during high season, which is most of the year:

http://nuovavenezia.gelocal.it/venez...375?ref=search

http://nuovavenezia.gelocal.it/venez...dio-1.15252115

Last year UNESCO told Venice that if it doesn't do something to rein in the tourism it will lose its status as a world heritage site. This would be a big thing. They just named the hills where they grow the grapes to make prosecco a UNESCO site, so for Venice not to be one would be a real slap in the face.

Venice was forced to submit a plan to UNESCO for consideration at its meeting this June 27th. The plan was drafted and much of it approved (some is still under debate), and all or most of it will be submitted to UNESCO. Much of it centers around Piazza San Marco. I've actually seen tourists bring portable stoves and make fires and start cooking shish-kabob in the middle of the Plaza. People lie on the of the stairs of the Basilica and eat take out food. Venice hired 100 new policemen to be in Piazza San Marco starting in June, to enforce better tourists behaviors.

It's a complex, far reaching plan, but here are the basic bones of it.

1. Tassa di sbarco e tornelli in piazza San Marco per proteggere Venezia dal turismo di massa e dare una risposta concreta all'Unesco. "A tax to get into Venice, and turnstiles to get into San Marco Square to protect Venice from mass tourism will give a concrete response to UNESCO."

The most important measure they feel is the new tax or ticket you will have to purchase to get into Venice. There already is a city tax that you pay when you stay in a hotel. Making tourists pay a tax to get into the city is aimed at making day-trippers pay too, and will apply whether you get to Venice by train, cruise ship, vaporetto, water taxi, or any other means. The tax might not always be in effect, but may just kick in on days when there are more than 100,000 visitors. It's not clear to me. The size of the tax which they are calling a "landing fee," will vary day to day, based upon how many tourists are trying to get in.

2. Anche i costi dei vaporetti potrebbero aumentare, con gli stessi parametri, in canal Grande. E poi si pensa di rendere obbligatoria la prenotazione dei servizi. "Also increase the tourist fare for the vaporetto on the Grand Canal when the number of visitors reaches a certain number. They are thinking of requiring tourists to make a reservation to use it." During the summer time the vaporetti are so crowded that local residents have no way to get around and live their day to day life, like shopping, taking kids to school, etc.

3. La seconda novità riguarderebbe l'accesso a piazza San Marco, il punto più turistico in assoluto. In questo caso si parla di limitare gli ingressi, anche ricorrendo ai tornelli. "The second new thing regards access to Piazza San Marco, the absolute most touristic place. In this case the talk is to limit entrance, even requiring turnstiles." They are talking about experimenting with this in the summer, but there are some legal hurdles.

Uno dei provvedimenti più attesi è sicuramente la limitazione degli accessi nell’area marciana nelle giornate da “bollino rosso”. Prevista per ora solo una sperimentazione. Soluzione che non arriverà a breve termine. "The most anticipated change is securing a limitation on the number of people who have access to the San Marco area on red days (when it is already crowded). This will be previewed as an experiment, the solution won't arrive in the short term.

4. Modifiche ipotizzate anche per i terminal dei Gran Turismo, che vanno spostati da San Marco e ricollocati in aree decentrate come Sant’Elena, Castello, Fondamente Nuove. "Move the Grand Tourist Terminal from San Marco to outlying areas like Sant'Elena, Castello, Fondamente Nuove." Tourists coming from Chioggia, from the parking lot, and from the sea shore, land at San Marco. They are going to make them land in other parts of the city.

5. Mentre resta in piedi l'iter per la delibera contro le aperture di nuove attività take away. Si è persa un’occasione», dicono, «È un provvedimento parziale, che colpisce solo una parte del fenomeno. "Not allowing any more take out food places to open. This one didn't go through, too many protested saying it is only a partial solution. This is a lost opportunity." This is a big problem. There are so many bridges to cross in Venice. Sometimes the bridges are completely blocked by tourists sitting on the steps eating sandwiches, pizza, shish kabob, etc, that you can't cross the bridges without practically stepping on them.

6. Altre soluzioni: la Ztl pedonale (ma serve una modifica legislativa), la polizia turistica (100 agenti ausiliari a contratto stagionale in arrivo), ma soprattutto l'alternativa al canale della Giudecca per le grandi navi. "Other solutions, a pedestrian ZTL, or making it prohibited to allow pedestrian tourists to enter certain parts of the city," so the residents can have their neighborhoods back. Seasonally hiring 100 tourist police to police the tourists around San Marco Piazza (already done). Over everything, finding an alternative to the Giudecca Canal for cruise ships coming into Venice.

7. The debate about these changes has been accelerated because the deadline to submit the changes to UNESCO is next Thursday, and by the pressure exerted by public opinion.

8. Affittanze. La prossima settimana dovrebbe essere approvata dal Consiglio la delibera che chiede alla Regione di modificare la Legge sul turismo che prevede oggi un cambio d’uso “automatico” da residenza a turismo. Allo studio e in giunta giovedì anche un nuovo regolamento che preveda norme più rigide per i cambi d’uso. Dovranno sempre passare per la giunta e non dovranno essere automatici. "Rentals. Next week the Counsel should approve modification of the laws concerning converting apartments to tourist rentals (AirBnb, etc.), which right now you can do automatically. They expect new rigid standards to be approved next Thursday. The owner of the apartment will have to get approval from a Board, it will no longer be automatic." Reeling in AirBnb in Italy is long, long overdue.

9. La richiesta che viene dalle isole è anche quella di limitare i passaggi dei mezzi troppo grandi e dotati di megafono. "The request from the islands is also to limit large boats that use megaphones." These boats really disturb the peace by using loudspeakers to point out significant sites.

10. Proposta delle categorie è quella di ripristinare il collegamento per il rio delle Galeazze, attraverso l’Arsenale. Si eviterebbe il periplo di migliaia di motoscafi (taxi e Actv) per Sant’Elena. "Open a link from Rio delle Galeazze that crosses Arsenale so that thousands of water taxis and vaporetti don't have to drive by Sant'Elena." That's the most peaceful neighborhood in Castello, where many residents live.

11. Navi. Ministero, Porto e Comune sembrano decisi a portare avanti il progetto del Vittorio Emanuele. "Cruise ships. The port and commune seems to have decided to go ahead with the project Vittorio Emanuele." This is basically a project to keep cruise ships from getting anywhere near San Marco or using the Giudecca Canal.

12. Più difficile intervenire sul numero dei giornalieri, in continuo aumento. Nuovo assalto previsto per i ponti del 25 aprile del 1 maggio, dopo quello di Pasqua. Situazione ormai ad alto rischio. "The number of days when it is too difficult to intervene continues to increase. A new assault on the bridges of Venice is predicted for April 25th (San Marco day,) May 1st, and after Easter. By now the situation in Venice is at high risk.

http://www.veneziatoday.it/cronaca/s...17-unesco.html

http://nuova Venezia.gelocal.it/vene...375?ref=search

is this a done deal (90%+ probability) or just a proposal which may or may not get implemented - similar to what happened with Cinque Tere post?

Shouldnt title be "Proposal for Venice to Limit Visitors, Turnstiles to get into at San Marco?"

A definitive sounding thread can mislead FTers.

Plus, when it comes to Italy, a lot of official sounding news items never materialize.
Remember how certain it was few years ago that Cruise Ships would be banned.?
or reopening of Lover's Lane is just around the corner?

(Thanks for the photos though - I hate going to Venice on a day trip in high season and used your pix to discourage family from going to Venice in summer)

I agree with desi in terms of titling. Once the new rules are actually in place, a comprehensive sticky should be prominent.
As to the proposals, I actually cannot believe the behemoths are still allowed to cruise through metro Venice and blast their tinny loudspeakers. The worst thing I ever experienced in Venice was strolling along the front and being - let's call it what it is - assaulted by a distorted rendition of "Con te Partiro" being blasted through the lousy PA horns on the deck of the ship of fools. Someone must have thought it was romantic. It was deplorable.
I also think the cruisers are the single biggest component of the overcrowding of Venice. I say this because if you took the same picture of San Marco that's in the article after 6 or 7 pm, when the cruisers go back to the boat for dinner, the contrast in crowding would be remarkable. Btw, I also put the evisceration of the 5 villages in Cinque Terre, most unfortunately, poor Vernazza, at the feet of cruisers as well.
Unrestrained conversion of properties to short term rentals (Airbnb) present significant quality of life issues to Venice, but considering how empty the city gets after the cruisers leave, overcrowding isn't something I lay at their feet.

I put a question mark there for that reason. UNESCO was very specific in demanding concrete proposals. These have been passed by the relevant Boards. As mentioned, some will require legislation, like the one limiting visitors. The concrete proposals have to be at UNESCO next week, and this is what they said they're going to do. Things can change, hence the question mark. Venice has been planning to clamp down on tourists for some time, and UNESCO is forcing their hand. They meet in Cracow, Poland on June 27th, so Venice has to do something concrete.

I think that I got lucky in that when I visit next month, since it is midweek, there is only 1 large ship in port although if it was two days earlier, it was a lot more.

Someone told me about the documentary Venice Syndrome. I am afraid to watch it before our trip.

My wife already feels bad that she is visiting and potentially part of the problem although we are actually spending money in a hotel and will be going to restaurants for dinner...settled on Corte Sconta and Osteria Oliva Nera the second night of our trip...

You are not part of the problem. Venice welcomes and needs tourist. It's just in need of some control, especially the cruise ships. Great restaurants, especially Corte Sconta. Leave plenty of time to find it, or you will miss your reservation. It's really hidden.

Do you think those of us who stay in a hotel will have priority in being able to enter the city?

Your first link to the pedestrian congestion on the bridge was horrifying.

That photo is what one encounters walking out of the Danieli during high season. It is horrifying.:(

It is...but let's be honest, it's because it's La Serenissima. And it's because we know that most of that mob are staying on a boat and consider their 6 hour shore excursion means they've "done Venice." It's like an infestation of locusts.
But that photo is also like walking out of the Plaza in NYC during Xmas. And that's considered festive.

They will only have "red days" when the crowds get to certain size. I am sure that this will not have that big an effect, except during the summer. Venice is best avoided in the summer anyway. They're talking about red days being when there are over 100,000 visitors or so. That's more than the typical day. There is no way that they are going to not welcome someone staying in a hotel. What they are really hoping to do is cut down on the massive crowds of what they call, "morde e fugge," or "bite and run." I've heard that day-trippers don't spend enough in the city to even pay for the pick up of the trash they leave behind. Everything has to come and go by boat, including the trash, so it's expensive. They come, take a bite out of the city, and leave. Venice will always be dependent on welcoming tourists, and anyone coming there to visit and stay in a hotel like a regular tourist will be welcome always.

It is also directed at cruise ships. A cruise ship going by Venice emits the air pollution of about 15,000 cars, and so many come to Venice since the boom in cruise ships. Venice used to have the cleanest air in Italy because there are no cars or wood burning stoves. The most polluted cities were always Turin, Milan, Rome, Florence, and Bologna. Now, Venice is sometimes ranked as having the second worst air in Italy, mainly due to cruise ships. In fact, Venice is in the process of switching to electric vaporetti because the air is so polluted, and already deployed their first one.

It's not certain how much of this will be enacted. Some, maybe most, but not all. Enacting a ban on visitors will be the hardest one to do. Plus, they are really targeting Piazza San Marco. For some reason, everybody goes there, and walks to the Rialto Bridge, or vice versa. Often, if you go 2-3 blocks away, the streets can be empty, even during the summer.

I was there during Carnevale this year, one of the busiest times of the year.
1. Street near Piazza San Marco
2. Kids playing on a trampoline in a regular neighborhood a few blocks away.
3. Street where I rented an apartment.
4. Campo Santa Maria Formosa, a five minute walk from San Marco.

The crowds shouldn't worry anyone, just stay out of the tourist zone.

thanks. I do plan to make sure to get some good directions. At least it's close to our hotel.

Title come across as question mark is for the turnstile part while assertive statement before the comma looks like done deal.

UNESCO has no enforcement authority.

Since Venice MAY have to do something concrete, why not wait until concrete has solidified (especially given Italy's track record with past pronouncements of similar nature)

Best time to enjoy Venice is between 7 AM and 10 AM (after 9 PM is not bad either) and best place is back street blocks area away from San Marco and Rialto.

UNESCO has no enforcement authority, but Venice not MAY have to do something, it MUST do something, and has decided it needs to do this to maintain its UNESCO status. This is dominating the headlines even today, and I'm not going to censor or shield people from what the news and buzz is in Italy. People need to know. For example, the most likely thing to happen to Alitalia is that it closes down over the rest of the year. I haven't brought that up here, but it is certainly discussed on the Alitalia forum, because should have a heads up.

Headline today:
Misure per il governo del turismo a Venezia

Il Comune "mette in riga" i flussi turistici: accessi controllati a San Marco e aree ristoro
Approvata la delibera in risposta ai rilievi dell'Unesco: campagna informativa sui social, prenotazioni "intelligenti", tutela della residenzialità e stretta sulle locazioni turistiche

"Measures to govern tourism in Venice

The Commune straightens out the influx of tourists: control access to San Marco and restored historical areas. Approved, the deliberations in response to UNESCO: a social information campaign, intelligent reservation system, protection of local residents, and strict control over the tourist locations."

Venice says it is going to do this. The votes are passed. I don't think I should hide it from FT members because they might not like the news. Does Italy govern erratically? Yes, almost as erratically as the USA. Health care will be changed, then it's not, etc. There's still no reason why headlines have to be hidden from people. The headline of this post was the headline of the newspaper article. I added a question mark.

These measures should not be taken to mean that Venice doesn't want tourists. This will work for the benefit of the tourists. Tourists are referred to as "resources." They are the main resources that Venice has, and they protect them, just like city and country protects its resources. This is not to crack down on tourists, it's to make their experience better, and to make sure that people want to visit Venice for centuries to come.

How are they going to square this with EU freedom of movement rules?

That's the one I said will be hardest to do, putting a quota on the number of people allowed into San Marco.

Having been to VCE probably 12 times I avoid St Marks at all costs. I'd rather wander around Cannaregio. I first visited in 1976. The crowds are definitely different now, in many ways. I'll be there again in June for 4 days but using it as a base for day trips to Verona and Padua.

If the problem is day-trippers, can they just tax the entry transportation more? Charge a higher fee to let cruise ships dock. And charge a higher tax for entering trains and boats. Then let the cruise ships/trains/boats pass the charge onto the customers.

These pictures... just wow. I went a couple years ago for a few days during low season (November). There was even aqua alta on one of the days, but I'd gladly take it over the insanity during high season.

I understand wishing to avoid the crowds in St. Marks during the day in high season. However, late at night, when the cruise passengers have returned to their ships and the day trippers have gone, St. Marks is a magic, beautiful place to be. My husband and I travel to Venice every fall and there have been countless times we have been among only a handful of people and it is a breathtaking and very romantic experience.

I have a 3 day visit to Venice scheduled for late June. And I'm staying on the front near Arsenale, instead of my usual haunt deep in Castello. Should be interesting.
I'll take pictures.

It is definitely breathtaking every time. I go there and have coffee just off the square, or in Quadri, one of the two bars (along with Florian) where they have small orchestras playing classical music. Outdoors with the music, a coffee is 15 euros. Inside the quadri at the counter, 2 euros. Same with Rialto. It's wonderful around 7AM when the fishing boats are coming in. Venice an work anytime of the year. The worst part for me in the summer is mosquitoes. People for some reason, book hotels that advertise, "close to San Marco and Rialto." What people should do is stay is away, and go there in the early morning or late evening. Then it is really magical.

Today they interviewed Franceschini, Italian Minister of Culture (who doesn't have authority in this) about the changes that Venice decided to make to remain a UNESCO site. Excerpts:

"No ai ticket a pagamento, ma gli accessi vanno regolati." "Controllo delle presenze sì, ma non a pagamento.“ No purchasing tickets, but access will be regulated. Control the presence of tourists, but not by making them pay.

"Penso però che i luoghi dell'arte che hanno già oggi un problema di sovraffollamento, e che sono di per sé contenitori fragili, non possano contenere un numero qualsiasi di visitatori. Fontana di Trevi, piazza San Marco, il Ponte Vecchio hanno una capacità di carico finita. Vanno tutelati." I think, however, that places of art have a problem with overcrowding today, and they have fragile contents, they cannot contain whatever number of visitors. Fountain of Trevi, Piazza San Marco, Ponte Vecchio have a finite capacity. They will be protected.

He went on to mention the many measures that the city will take to control the influx, mainly around the San Marco area, including counting the number of people entering the Piazza, an experiment that's supposed to start this summer. He went on to comment, "Credo che regolatori di accesso possano essere uno strumento utile - aggiunge Franceschini - ad esempio quando si superino certi numeri potrebbe essere utile attendere il giusto deflusso. Come accade già a Dubrovnik. È una cosa completamente diversa da un ticket o da una prenotazione. Ma è una scelta che spetta ai sindaci". “I believe that regulating access could be a useful means, for example, when the amount of people exceeds a certain number, only let more people in as others leave, as they already do in Dubrovnik. That's completely different from having to buy a ticket or make a reservation to get in."

Ma è una scelta che spetta ai sindaci". "These choices are up to the Mayor.
"Il ministro, infine, si dice d'accordo con norme più stringenti per i pullman turistici: "Bisogna governare la crescita. Si deve puntare su un turismo sostenibile, colto, che porti ricchezza, rispetta l'ambiente." "The minister also said he is in agreement with new stringent rules they are placing on tourist buses (guide buses like hop on-hop off, etc.): We have to govern the growth of tourism. We should aim for sustainable tourism, cultured, people who enrich us, and respect the environment."
(excerpts from Venezia Today, http://www.veneziatoday.it/cronaca/f...o-venezia.html)

Venice does seem to bring in particularly unruly tourists. For example, this guy dives off the Rialto Bridge and goes swimming. Every once in a while, he has to get rescued. Two years ago a guy dove off the Rialto Bridge and landed right onto a speeding water taxi. He died. http://www.veneziatoday.it/cronaca/t...o-venezia.html

Another interesting article on the topic of regulating Venetian tourism in Corriere del Veneto
http://corrieredelveneto.corriere.it...29176005.shtml

Some excerpts.
Il giorno dopo l’approvazione della delibera-quadro sul turismo da parte della giunta Brugnaro, da Roma arrivano giudizi distinti sul pacchetto di misure ipotizzate dal Comune di Venezia per la gestione dei 30 milioni di turisti che ogni anno arrivano in città.

"The day after the Mayors Council approved the packet of measures to control the 30 million tourists who come each year, Rome has given its judgment.

Brugnaro è stato accusato di non muoversi, ben vengano allora queste misure sperimentali – commenta il sottosegretario Ilaria Borletti Buitoni – l’atto va accolto positivamente, non si può affrontare una nuova estate senza prendere alcuna misura. La decisione di contingentare gli accessi alla piazza spetta al Comune e la sperimentazione di Venezia può essere utile per poi venir applicata in altre città d’arte."

"Mayor Brugnaro has been accused of not doing anything, so these experimental measures are welcomed, commented Undersecretary of the Economy - "these are positive actions, we cannot face another summer season without taking action. The decision to control access to the Plaza is a Venetian experiment useful for application to other cities of art."

Ma a frenare sull’idea della piazza a pagamento è anche la Procuratoria, uno dei soggetti più rilevanti dell’area marciana.

"But put the brakes on the idea of paying to get into Piazza San Marco and the Basilica, one of the subjects under discussion relevant to the San Marco area.

Via libera invece al contingentamento. "La prenotazione è auspicabile perché ogni giorno in piazza è un’invasione – prosegue Tesserin – Ma prima è necessario uno studio complessivo che consenta di dire quante sono le persone in piazza in un dato momento."

"Free entrance instead of quota. Reservations are desirable because every day there is an invasion of the Piazza, said Attorney/Counsel Member - but first it's necessary to do a comprehensive study to tell how many people are in the Piazza at a given moment.

La tecnologia dovrebbe essere disponibile a breve: Corila, Università di Bologna, Telecom e Comune stanno studiando un sistema di conta-persone utilizzando i dati forniti dalle compagnie telefoniche su quanti cellulari sono presenti in un certo luogo in un certo momento. La sperimentazione c’è già stata nei giorni di Carnevale e presto arriveranno i risultati. La delibera quadro prevede poi delle azioni già avviate come il potenziamento dei vigili, limiti alle aperture dei take-away e nuove regole per il decoro.

"Technology to do this should be available shortly. University of Bologna is studying using the telephone company to determine the number of cell phones present in a given region at a given moment. We already started the experiment during Carnevale, and should have results shortly. We've also already implemented some of the plan, like hiring more police officers, limiting the new take-out food places, and passed rules to enforce proper decorum of the tourists."

Non si penalizzi in nessun modo chi dorme negli alberghi e spende nella città."

"People who sleep in a hotel and spend money in the city will not be penalized in any way."

I problemi di Venezia sono comuni alle altre città d’arte e ieri il sindaco di Firenze Dario Nardella ha chiesto «una task force istituzionale per gestire il problema del crescente flusso di turisti nelle città d’arte». «Siamo disponibili a discutere », dicono dal ministero. Nardella invece boccia i contapersone: per lui meglio aumentare le tariffe sui bus turistici, che portano orde di visitatori "mordi e fuggi."

"The problems of Venice are common to other cities of art, said Mayor Nardella of Florence, who has called for a task force to manage the growth of influx of tourists into the cities of art. "We are ready to discuss it." Instead of counting and regulating the number of visitors, he is in favor of increasing taxes on the tourist buses in Florence, because they just bring hordes of people who "bite and run." (Tourists who take a bite out of the city and run, without contributing anything to its economy).

Overall, changes are happening. As always, they will be slow, but the current situation in Venice and Florence is unsustainable, and people now realize that.

Very interesting article, but at the end of the day, while well-intentioned, this will be studied and studied by one commission after another. As you said, Perche, this will be a slow process.

You declare the whole site a monument and limit the number of visitors. You can also charge for access (looks like they're not doing that now) as you would for any other monument, giving locals and hotel-stayers a 100% discount. This does make the local population part of the spectacle, but that's how it is nowadays anyway in Venice or in other highly-touristic places.

Or you just limit the number of cruise ships allowed to visit per day based on passenger count. One or two behemoths a day, maybe four or five smaller ships. 10000 cruisers a day max.
And for heaven's sake, ban the damned things from the Guidecca. What other city would even let an apartment complex on wheels roll down Main Street?

In the article where I first saw this, most of the measures had passed, with the exception of the ban on opening new fast food and take-away places in Venice. They focused on pizza and shish kebab.

The failure to ban new pizza and kebab places was characterized by the city as a, "lost opportunity." Florence has already passed a ban against the opening of places serving inauthentic food in the historic center. Venice re-voted on the bill, and this time it passed.

http://www.veneziatoday.it/cronaca/d...y-venezia.html

A few excerpts, "We are very satisfied that this measure against further degradation of Venice has passed."

"We are cutting off the places that result in improvised camping and picnics in Piazza San Marco."

"No more, we are stopping the activities that are not compatible with our need to take care of the culture of Venice."

"Venezia, approvata in Consiglio comunale la delibera contro le nuove aperture di attività take away. Il provvedimento vieta nuove aperture di attività di vendita e di produzione di prodotti alimentari destinati all'asporto e al consumo su pubblica via, escluse le gelaterie artigianali.“

"The city approved a law against any new take-away places, or places where they sell food that you can eat out in public, with the exception of artisanal gelato."

As for artisanal gelato, that's going to be hard to find. There is a person credited with recently restoring gelato culture in Rome, Claudio Torce. He only found about 25 places in Rome that were still making gelato, and not selling ice cream as gelato. Gelato is not ice cream. Gelato will spoil in 2-3 days. Ice cream is full of chemicals that keep things stabilized for 6 months to a year. Gelato is made out of just fresh fruit or other flavors and milk (not cream), and it doesn't keep beyond a few days. In all of Rome, the number of places that were still selling gelato was found to be in the 20's. Luckily, that is changing. In Venice, I think there are only two places left that still sell real gelato.

Banning pizza was easy, because Venice and pizza don't go together. It takes a super hot wood burning oven to make pizza, just like it takes a super hot heat source to make Venetian glass. Houses in Venice have a wooden sub-structure and they would light up like a match, like La Fenice, if there is a pizza or glass burning oven inside.

For that reason, Venice banned pizza many years ago, and sentenced all glass blowers to lifelong exile on the island of Murano, under penalty of death. Pizza was only allowed back into Venice under strict controls maybe 40-50 years ago, mostly as a frozen food, reheated or microwaved. Banning take-out pizza was easy because in Venice people don't eat pizza.

The article says, "Insomma: kebab, panini e piadine "mordi e fuggi" non fanno l'interesse di Venezia,“ In summary, kabab and sandwich places for people who come to the city to "bite and run" is not in the interest of Venice.

Banning kebab and pizza seems like moving in the right direction, although it will probably be implemented too slowly to make the intended difference. But who knows?

thanks for the update. BTW, sent you a PM. not sure if you were able to help with my question. i will have to go back to the thread you posted in about the authentic gelato places in Rome/.

Article from today's Guardian:
Venice world heritage status under threat

This is a sad story..Not a pretty picture....

​​​​​​​

Yes, the cruise ships are killing Venice. There is a non-binding referendum again on banning cruise ships I think next month. Barcelona, NYC and many other places put severe restrictions on AirBnb because of the destructive effect it has on affordable housing and neighborhoods.

The UNESCO warning came out months ago, and Venice has promised changes in how cruise ships access Venice. They want to dredge another canal that will allow them to disembark passengers without the boats having to drive by San Marco. Environmentalists, however, don't want another canal because it would change the whole ecology of the lagoon by allowing more tidal water in and out. Venice has really taken the UNESCO warning seriously. There's a lot going on there to meet the deadline.

I wouldn't let this dissuade anyone from visiting (unless going on a cruise ship). It's still one of the most beautiful places in Italy, and in the world. The cruise ships are just turning the city center between San Marco and Rialto into a mosh pit. AirBnb forces out native residents who pay 600 euros per month for their apartment, so that the landlord can rent the apartment for $600 a night to tourists. Investing in real estate is fine if it were regulated, but in Venice its not. It's unbridled. Regulating cruise ships and airbnb are the two main factors identified as being necessary to save Venice, that they are working on.

In the meantime, Venice is easy to enjoy because all of the cruise ships and other day trippers remain stuck between Piazza San Marco and the Rialto Bridge. Other neighborhoods remain as beautiful, mysterious, authentic, and breathtaking as ever. And before 8:30 AM you can go on a run from Piazza San Marco to the Rialto Bridge, and back, and stop for coffee when you're done, and not bump into anybody except locals, and other runners.

I wouldn't change plans because of this. It seems as if Venice is finally dealing with it by regulating (not stopping) cruise ships and AirBnb, for the benefit of the locals, or at least I hope so.

I think - I hope - that the two messages that comes through this thread for folks considering a visit to Venice are first, just don't think of Venice as the small San Marco/Rialto Bridge area. And second, try and stay for longer than three days.
Do those things and Venice will seduce you.

Venice recently proposed a number of measures to prevent UNESCO from stripping its world heritage status, as discussed here, and seems to be pretty focused on carrying them out. They banned any new hotels and b&b's from opening in Venice. They can't close down the ones that are already there and have contributed so much to the depopulation of the city, but they did ban any new ones from opening up. It's good, but a little too late. They should have stopped them a long time ago.

http://corrieredelveneto.corriere.it...39890495.shtml

Excerpts:
VENEZIA Stop dal Comune alla realizzazione di nuovi alberghi e b&b a Venezia. La Giunta ha approvato una proposta di delibera che vieta, in linea generale, di trasformare degli immobili in centro storico in strutture ricettive....

(The commune stopped opening of any new hotels or b&b in Venezia. It approved a proposal that forbids transforming a residence in the historic center into a tourist accommodation.)

"Lo scenario è abbastanza pesante - ha detto l’assessore all’ Urbanistica, Massimiliano De Martin -. In centro storico, tra strutture ricettive di vario tipo, ci sono 47.229 posti letto per 25.400 camere."

(The situation is already very heavy, with 47,229 beds in 25,400 rooms available for visitors to rent.)

Sono escluse le locazioni turistiche (come Airbnb), per le quali verrà studiato un provvedimento ad hoc, e, dal punto di vista geografico, il provvedimento non varrà per le isole, il Tronchetto e la Giudecca, dove le politiche comunali sono diverse.

(Tourist places like AirBnb will be studied by an ad hoc committee....the islands of Giudecca and Tronchetto are not included in the measure)

Interesting article from yesterday's Telegraph (UK)
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/cr...-for-the-city/

Indicates a difference between residents and Venice officials over cruise ships. Here's the headline:

Venice authorities lament lack of cruise ships as residents and Unesco fight for the city's future

Edit - sorry about the font; don't know how to change it:confused:

It is an interesting article. I'm suspicious about its accuracy because it quotes Venetian officials. They are terribly corrupt. Think of the Moses Project. I think it was 1966 when there was such bad flooding that they passed a law requiring the Venetian lagoon to do something about it. It took them until about 1986 to come up with a plan, and that was the Moses Project, to be completed in 1996.

It consisted of submersible gates at the entrance of the lagoon that would be raised when needed to stop Aqua Alta. 30 years later it still hasn't happened. The cost overruns have been phenomenal. A few years ago they arrested 35 people, mostly local officials, including the Mayor. The project went on for decades with over a billion dollars of cost overruns because the Mayor and the rest of the government were Mafia.

A year or two ago I posted that people should go to Venice now, because they appointed 3 special counsels to take over the project and do it honestly, and they predicted that the Moses Gates would be up and running in 2016, and there would be no more Aqua Alta. Aqua Alta is one the best things to experience in Venice.

There's still Aqua Alta. In the 30 years of the project and the phenomenal cost of it, no one had thought of the fact that salt water is corrosive, and much of the project is already going to rot because the maintenance of keeping them working in the face of salt water is something like $750 million.

When you say that there seems to be a difference of opinion between the Venetian officials and its local citizens that's true. There isn't much trust in the government. The current Mayor doesn't even live in Venice.

Venetians scheduled another plebiscite for this month, like the last one a few years ago, to ban cruise ships, the one that that won by a vast majority. This one will vote to ban cruise ships too. It should be kept in mind that the docking, port fees, etc, don't go to Venice. The money goes to Rome. That's why Rome overruled the last Venetian plebiscite that overwhelmingly voted to ban cruise ships.

In addition to the plebiscite to ban cruise ships, Venice and the entire Veneto region, along with Milan and the entire region of Lombardy, have another upcoming plebiscite: to become autonomous from Italy. Just like 6 states currently are.

The reason is that Lombardy and the Veneto generate about 1/3 of Italy'a gross domestic product. It goes to Rome, and Rome sends back only a small part. Both states would prefer to be like Alto Adige, etc. and the other independent states, and only be loosely connected to Italy.

Venetians hate cruise ships and AirBnb, and people who buy take out food and eat it on the steps of the bridges over the canals, and on the steps of historic churches. There's no way around it. Florence has already taken stricter measures. They took steps to require AirBnb to pay hotel taxes so that they don't have that unfair price advantage. And instead of requiring the "owner" who is supposedly collecting the tax and going to city hall to pay it, they required a modification of the website to require taxes to be paid directly to the government, because owners were collecting it, but not paying it.

Florence already banned the opening of new fast food places in the center. I'm glad that Venetians are following suit. If Florentine churches are experimenting with using water canons to spray the church steps so that tourists don't mistake their sacred sites as their living room couch, I don't see why that would be a problem.

Headline from just a few years ao.
Venice Mayor Arrested on Corruption Charges
https://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/05/w...n-charges.html

The head of the industrial consortium directing the project was also arrested. The Former Minister of Culture was arrested too, along with 32 other people, but was able to get out of it because he was in the Parliament, and members of the government cannot be arrested in Italy.

"a difference between residents and Venice officials over cruise ships," is only natural. Stick with the residents.

The project that was supposed to be finished in 1995 has cost over $6 billion dollars so far, yet the gates to block water from coming into the lagoon caused deep water pits that made aqua alta more severe. The billions of dollars (and counting) was taken out of the money that Venice sends to Rome, where Rome takes its cut, and sends some slice back to Venice. The corrupt Moses project siphoned off much of Venice's revenue. Students were told to bring their own toilet paper to school to save money, the canals couldn't be regularly dredged, and senior citizens who needed help because they can't walk across all of the bridges had their services cut and had to move to the mainland, so that "city officials" could keep siphoning off the money to their private bank accounts in Switzerland, Monaco, and San Marino.

Venetian "government officials" just recently realized that there is salt in salt water, and the walls of the Moses Project are eroding very fast. Also, they were built to stop tidal flooding up to 20 cm, but the average tidal flood is estimated to soon 80 cm.

There are even news paper articles highlighting that the Moses Project was designed to stop the city from sinking, but the walls of the Moses Project are sinking faster than the city. http://espresso.repubblica.it/inchie...ider=undefined

People in power don't generally go to jail in Italy. After a certain age Italy has a law that you can't be put in jail anymore because you are too old and infirm. So they just just keep appealing until they reach that age. That's what Berlusconi did after he was convicted of tax fraud, bribery, and paying an under-aged prostitute. The head of the Moses project who was arrested was deemed too infirm to be in jail and lives in a mansion in La Jolla, California. Mayor Orsini was under four months of house arrest, that was suspended.

The use of the means of state to benefit private interests are part of how Italy operates. You are right, there is a difference of opinion between, "government officials and citizens." I'd side with the citizens on cruise ships, and other issues.

It should also be understood that all of the talk about banning cruise ships has never referred to not letting people visit Venice by cruise ship. It means not letting cruise ships drive by San Marco Square. The boats will have to dock somewhere else because after the Costa Concordia capsized off the Coast of Tuscany it killed that beach town, and it took years to upright the cruise ship and tow it out of there. What would happen to Venice if a cruise ship crashed into San Marco Square? It was after the Costa Concordia that a law was passed banning the cruise ships from the center of Venice, but that still hasn't happened. Hopefully, it will after the vote this month.

I don't know much about Gentiloni, the new Prime Minister, but the three most well known government officials in Italy have all be convicted of some crime; former Prime Minister Matteo Renzi for misuse of taxpayers' money, Silvio Berlusconi for tax fraud, and Beppe Grillo for manslaughter. Side with the citizens on this one, because that cruise ship money is probably being missed by some politician, not the local citizens.

Venice received a reprieve from UNESCO. The vote was supposed to be this month concerning whether Venice would be placed on the "endangered" list of world heritage sites. Not a day goes by when this hasn't been in the headlines.

First, http://www.veneziatoday.it/cronaca/u...ezia-2019.html

To capsularize, Venezia ha un po' di tempo in più per mettersi "in riga" ed evitare il rischio di essere depennata dalla lista dei beni patrimonio dell'umanità dell'Unesco.

Venice has some extra time to get itself in line as a world heritage site. They pushed back judgement day from this month, to 2019 because they are pleased with all of the measures that Venice has been taking.

Si tratta comunque di una proroga che prevede dei punti da rispettare: in questo lasso di tempo andranno diffusi i dettagli del canale Vittorio Emanuele come alternativa al passaggio delle grandi navi nel bacino di San Marco, ma dovranno anche essere affrontate le questioni del turismo di massa e della conclusione (e gestione) del sistema Mose.

The program has to respect several points; the new canal they are supposed to dredge so that cruise ships can get to Venice without passing in front of Piazza San Marco (Canale Vittorio Emmanuele), the problem of mass tourism, and the Moses Project (gates at the entrances of the lagoon to block water from coming in, to prevent aqua alta. UNESCO was impressed that the government is giving 400 million euros to Project Venice to fix these things.

Sul tema del turismo resta in ballo pure la più recente proposta del Comune relativa al blocco dell'apertura di nuove attività ricettive in città, specialmente bed&breakfast: la delibera sta seguendo l'iter previsto e dovrebbe approdare in Consiglio nelle prossime settimane.

"As for mass tourism, they are happy that it is on the ballot that Venice has a vote this week coming up to block any more establishments of (Air)B&B."

That's a relief. AirBnB sucks more life out of Venice than cruise ships, and if the new law passes Venice will finally have laws governing AirBnB similar to what San Francisco, New York, Berlin, Barcelona, and many other cities already have, although it's about five years too late.

The law to ban new AirB&B's in Venice has passed. In fact, the headlines say that they did it like cutting off a bad head with a guillotine.

http://www.veneziatoday.it/cronaca/d...a-venezia.html

Ok alla delibera su stop nuovi alberghi e B&B a Venezia "C'è lo stop a nuovi alberghi o B&B a Venezia: ok dalla giunta alla delibera "ghigliottina"

Venice is being de-populated, and one of the main reasons is Air B&B, which causes landlords to push out residents who have been living there for decades, in order to rent out the apartment to tourists for a few nights at a time and charge tourists for one night what the people would normally pay one month's rent for. Since tourists don't need tailors, barber shops, cleaners, the neighborhood businesses then all go out of business, and pretty soon, there is no neighborhood left.

Cruise ships and Air B&B have been killing Venice, and they are finally doing something to stop it with this law. Some of the interesting phrases in the article, http://www.veneziatoday.it/cronaca/d...a-venezia.html

"stop nuovi alberghi e B&B a Venezia
"stop alle variazioni degli alloggi per uso turistico.“

"stop all new variations of themes of places to stay for tourists."

"di fatto intende bloccare l'apertura di nuove strutture ricettive in centro storico e l'ampliamento di quelle già esistenti."

"We already have enough places for people to stay."

insomma, una risposta a chi vede nell'"invasione turistica" uno dei più grossi problemi del capoluogo.

"In summary, this is a response to the "invasion of the tourists" one of the biggest problems facing Venice as the capital of the region."

D'altronde secondo un censimento del Comune i posti letto a uso turistico a Venezia (senza contare quelli abusivi) sarebbero 47.229, esclusa la Giudecca. In pratica si raddoppia in un colpo solo la popolazione residente. Abbastanza per dire "basta".“

The last census, which didn't include Air B&B, considered to be "in nero," or operating in the shadows illegally because they don't pay any taxes, show 47,229 beds for rent in Venice, not including in Giudecca. Which in one blow doubles the population of the city (Venice has about 54,000 residents, and if the majority of people are sleeping two in a bed, I can understand the calculation). This is enough to say basta, enough!

Venice is about to publish a map showing all of the B&B's that don't pay taxes, and is considering making tourists responsible for not renting there because it is supposed to be published on an accessible Google website.

They established a link with the Finance Ministry and the Venetian Police Department to establish this map. They determined which places are renting rooms, then went to the Finance Department to see which ones have never paid the room tax. They also encouraged residents to notify them if there "constantly change in your building every few days, with none of the people speaking Italian." In the map below in red are the B&B's verified as operating, "in nero," meaning there is no record of them paying the for tourist tax for people staying in their room. In yellow are the places under investigation for being illegal.

200 "B&B,'s" operating in nero have already been arrested. This prompted 2,000 Venetians supposedly "sharing their apartment," to rush to the banks to register so they can start paying the tourist tax. Before this they would collect the tax money from tourists, and the tourists would think that the person "sharing" their apartment was actually going down to the Finance Department and paying the tax.

I like how Venice is finally standing up for itself.

Below is an early rendition of the map in crude form. In red are B&B's who who have never paid the tourist tax, which includes mansions on the Grand Canal. The yellow ones are currently under investigation. I'm not sure about this, but I personally wouldn't plan my vacation on staying at a "B&B" of someone acting in the black. The purpose of this soon to be released map is to make the tourists share responsibility for making sure that they are renting a legal apartment.

Most Italian newspapers carried the story about the new Venice map of legal and illegal apartments, which is supposed to be updated daily.

http://corrieredelveneto.corriere.it...65335936.shtml
Headline: "Un clic sulla mappa per scoprire se il b&b del vicino di casa è abusivo." (Just a click on the map to discover if the B&B is a house of abusers.)