1readyset2go

We are taking our first trip to Italy in about 6 weeks so I am in full on planning mode and as first timers it is all a bit overwhelming. So far i have gleaned from this forum to get the Katie Parla food app (will do in the next few days) and have read/looked at Elizabeth Minchilli's a bit site too. I am even consider taking Elizabeth's food tour which looks like fun. I am waiting to hear back from her about pricing and tour options. Has anyone done this or can anyone suggest another food tour for Rome?

We will be staying for 5 nights at the Westin (after spending 3 in Florence). We probably won't arrive until about 6 on our first night (Sept 10) and after checking in will want some dinner somewhere not too far from the hotel as this will have already have been a long day of seeing sites in Florence and hopping the train to Rome. What would be a good first meal that is non fine dining close to the Westin?


There have been numerous good suggestions for dinner in the forums that i have read, but can someone point me to some options for breakfast near the Westin?

I know a few people have chimed in to say never eat where the concierge recommends so as an FYI here is the list the Westin Concierge sent me a few days ago for recommended dinning spots. Feel free to comment but I thought it might be interesting to post their list.


Trendy & Best ambience restaurants:
· PIERLUIGI
· JARDIN DE RUSSIE
· MOLTO
· ASSUNTA MADRE

casual restaurants situated within walking distance from the Hotel where you can have a casual lunch or dinner:
· GIRARROSTO TOSCANO
· TULLIO
· IL FELLINI
· TEMPIO DI BACCO

Trastevere Area that is famous for Roman cuisine restaurants such as:
· TARERNA TRILUSSA
· ANTICA PECA
· ENOTECA FERRARA
· LE MANI IN PASTA

ARMANDO AL PANTHEON or CLEMENTE ALLA MADDALENA by the Pantheon

Moreover, please find below some of the finest restaurants in Rome with amazing views on the Eternal City:

· Mirabelle restaurant (Hotel Splendide Royal, walking distance) http://www.mirabelle.it/
· Terrazze Dell’ Eden restaurant (1 Michelin Star, Hotel Eden, walking distance, no outdoor space, only view) http://www.dorchestercollection.com/...azza-delleden/
· Aroma restaurant (1 Michelin Star, Hotel Palazzo Manfredi, 10 minute taxi ride) http://www.aromarestaurant.it/it/
· Casina Valadier restaurant (5 minute taxi ride, open terrace) http://www.casinavaladier.it/
· Imago restaurant (1 Michelin star, 5 minute taxi ride, 10 minutes walking) http://www.hotelhasslerroma.com/imago-restaurant-rome


Thanks!

Perche

"There have been numerous good suggestions for dinner in the forums that i have read, but can someone point me to some options for breakfast near the Westin?"

First, Italians don't eat breakfast. Really. Save it for lunch. If you go to a hotel and they serve more than a croissant and coffee for breakfast, you are in a very tourist driven place. In Italy supper is eaten late, so people are not hungry in the morning. On the way to work, an Italian stops at a bar and has a coffee, standing up. If hungry, they eat a brioche, or croissant, called a cornetto in Italian. Lunch is a huge meal. That's why dinner happens late. There are no breakfast places in Italy. If you find one, it will be a tourist trap. You can't eat eggs, bacon, and pancakes, and properly enjoy an Italian lunch. Just wake up, go outside to the nearest bar, look at the pastry, go to the cashier and tell them what you want, they'll ask you if you want to sit. Say no, "al banco," meaning you'll stand up at the bar and eat like an italian, and they'll charge you 50% less. Go to the bar and tell the bar man what you want, "un cafe, e un cornetto," and eat it standing up. That's an italian breakfast. There is no breakfast in Italy, other than this, or doing the same at home. In the USA we think of pastry as something for desert after dinner. In Italy, it is considered perfectly acceptable to have cake or pastry for breakfast. Cake or pastry after dinner is OK, but not the norm. Italians are not big into dessert. After dinner it is more common to have some fruit, whereas in the USA we have fruit for breakfast. It's the opposite.

1readyset2go

thanks for letting me know about the cultural differences in breakfast I had no idea about that. Hopefully i can find something to munch on ,like a pastry or two, until lunch (when does that usually start) as I am a big eater! Thanks!

Perche

Yes, an American style breakfast is not something that italians eat. If there are any doubts, just google, "do italians eat breakfast." You'll find that just about every article says that breakfast is a coffee and a croissant (cornetto), usually eaten standing up at a bar, and that pastry, cake, or cookies are OK for breakfast. In our supermarkets we have a huge aisle of breakfast cereals. They have the same amount of space devoted to breakfast cookies. They're obesity rate is 9%. Ours is 30%.

When in Italy I usually just have a cornetto and cafe macchiato for breakfast. I was in Palermo last August, and after a spell in California I forgot. Sicily is known for its pastries, which are probably the best in Italy. I stopped in a bar for an afternoon coffee, saw some elaborate, creamy pastries and said to the lady behind the bar, "I'm going to come back after dinner and have some of these pastries for my dessert, they look delicious." She cocked her head and looked at me strangely, as if I was nuts, and said, "They're better for breakfast."

That's how you should view Italian breakfast, not bacon and eggs, but sweets. Of course, you are on vacation, and anything you want goes, but it's nice to be aware of the cultural differences.

ckendall

If you are staying at the Westin Excelsior the Cafe Doney downstairs will serve you from 8am on: http://www.restaurantdoney.com/en/cafe-doney-menus

Perche

Both Kate Minchilli and Katie Parla give food tours. There are many, many available, but these two are particularly good. You can't go wrong with either one of them.

PIERLUIGIi - One of the top restaurants in Rome. Very romantic, upscale, somewhat formal. Great, accessible location. Go if you want seafood. You can also eat outdoors here. Very expensive, but worth it.
JARDIN DI RUSIE - It's supposed to be great. I haven't eaten here. I believe it is outdoors in a courtyard. Great reputation. But it's in the Hotel Russie. Prices are usually jacked up, and I don't feel like I'm in Rome when eating inside of a hotel surrounded by foreigners, so I haven't gone. Easy location.
MOLTO - Is really Molto Cantina. Cantina means wine cellar. They also have a take out menu, which doesn't bode well. Location wise, it is inaccessible. You cannot walk to it, you will be on the outskirts of Rome. I wouldn't.
ASSUNTA MADRE - Good location. Don't know the place. Specializes in seafood. Looks pretty darn good to me. The only thing that puts me off is that they have a sister restaurant. It is located in London. How can a place guarantee the same meals in two different countries, claiming to bring fresh fish from local Roman waters? Makes it sound like it's trending towards a chain or a corporate restaurant.

· GIRARROSTO TOSCANO - Having just come from Florence, which is in Tuscany, why would you now eat Tuscan food in Rome, instead of eating Roman food? It would be like ordering pasta carbonara, a roman dish, in Florence.
· TULLIO - I had a great meal at Tullio, and I know several other people who had. I wouldn't say it's casual, but it is certainly not formal. I mean, don't think you are just going to a neighborhood osteria. This place is fairly upscale, but not like a Pierluigi. This is a great place to eat near your hotel.
· IL FELLINI - Looks like a nice, candlelit place. Reasonable location. The only thing that makes me think is that it says on their own homepage, "Chef Liam V che con il suo nuovo concept della ristorazione romana ha ideato il rinnovamento culinario all'insegna dell'avanguardia." This means, "Chef Liam V who with his new concept of restoring roman food and renewing it in the avant garde manner." If this is your first time in Rome, you probably want to stick with regular traditional roman food, and not experiment with an avant gard chef.
· TEMPIO DI BACCO - Looks like a good place. Good location. The only thing I think about is that there are several restaurants with the same name in Italy, one in Milan, one in Bari, one in Nocciatore. I don't know if this means that it is sort of like a chain, or if it's coincidence because the name means Temple of Bacchus, which could just be a popular choice of names for a restaurant.

In Trastevere,
· TARERNA TRILUSSA
· ANTICA PECA
· ENOTECA FERRARA
· LE MANI IN PASTA

I wouldn't eat in any of these places, even more so on the advice of a concierge. In fact, be careful eating in Trastevere. It used to be part of hidden Rome in the 80's and 90's. It's still a beautiful, must see area, but it has become completely overrun by tourists, and the restaurants cater to tourists, with overpriced, inauthentic food. It's hard to get real, authentic food there. There are a few great restaurants, but you'll have to do some homework and get better recommendations than from a concierge, who will just send you to a tourist place. Are you sure you got the name of Antica Peca correct?

ARMANDO AL PANTHEON or CLEMENTE ALLA MADDALENA by the Pantheon

I've eaten at Armando's many times. It's a roman standard as a restaurant. Always great. I don't know Clemente. It's easy to get tripped up with touristy restaurants near the Pantheon. It may be great, but their website says that they have a service where they will come to your house and prepare a meal for you if you are having a party. Sort of like catering. That's not common for great restaurants in Rome. Heck, Armando's is so successful that it's hard to find them open sometimes, much less have them willing to go to your house and cook for you.

I won't comment on the Michelin star places, that speaks for itself.

1readyset2go

I guess this where someone should say "when in Rome"

I will give it try and hopefully I won't waste away waiting for lunch

1readyset2go

Perche-thanks for your detailed response! That pretty much crosses off most of their list with only a couple of exceptions, which does not surprise me. I have gleaned a number of good places from other threads in this forum about eating in Rome. I think that paired with a food app or two (and maybe a tour) we will be in good shape.

One more thing is thing, we have a long place ride home. I despise plane food, but 10 hours is too long to go without eating. I will be looking for food that I can take with me to eat on the plane. Any suggestions for that? Our flight is in the morning. Maybe leftovers from a our dinner the night before? Will they box up something if I order extra, or is that something that would be frowned upon? Maybe keep it simple and just get a pizza?

Perche

Doggy bag is generally frowned upon. You don't take things home from the restaurant. Your hotel might make something for you to bring. Your best bet is to get something at one of the eating places at the airport, like a few panini or other things that will be fresh and that can be eaten a few hours later.

PWMTrav

Tullio is the only restaurant on the list I've eaten at (that I remember). We enjoyed it. It's not entirely casual, but it is laid back. I'd describe it as a neighborhood atmosphere except for the fact that it gets a lot of tourists, who obviously would not be living in the neighborhood. I do know some of the area hotel concierges send folks there. For fairly informal, definitely Roman, food, it's a good option.

Italians don't do much for breakfast, but many hotels will generally do an American style breakfast. I usually skip it so I can't tell you where it's good and where it isn't. I'd just grab something on the walk out in the morning - remember that a "bar" in Italy isn't a drinking hole, it's where you get coffee.

mromalley

Most bars will also have small sandwiches called tramezzino (triangle sandwiches) or small bun sandwiches, if you want something more than a cornetto

pbiflyer

And if you have platinum status, it will be complimentary.
We just stayed there. When we checked in, they said free continental for 2. But actually we had full breakfasts (for all 4 of us) and were never charged.

The area around the Westin is pricey. Even the bakeries are not that great. There was one that turned out great near the hotel. But the others were awful. Will try and figure out the name of the good place.
We did find a couple good places for that first night. La Scala is just around the corner and is decent.
Down the street (down the hill) is a place that has a brick oven for pizza but has other good food as well.

It is sad that in a great food place like Rome, it seems that a majority of places are now there to separate the tourists from their money while serving below average food. I remember fondly the days of just wandering around Rome off the beaten path and finding gems. Seems those are harder to find and further afield.

I think you can't go wrong with Perche's recommendations. We liked Constanza's.

Jeb321

Perche

You made a mistake. What reviews are you referring to?

It is common, or even usual, for Americans to "review" a restaurant in Italy, and say the service was rude, slow, etc. It just means they, have never been to Italy before, and have absolutely no basis for serving as expert reviewers of the food. They are looking to experience the USA when they are in Italy. To an Italian, the service that is rated as excellent service would be considered downright rude.es

The last time I went to an Italian restaurant in the USA, which I still unfortunately do from time to time, I sat down, an within 10 seconds a waiter a waiter was standing next to me asking me if I wanted a glass of wine. I had to tell him how would I know what type of wine to order when I haven't even decided what food I'm going to eat, fish, pasta, and what it would pair with. In Italy, they probably won't even come to your table in the first ten minutes, as a courtesy, so you can have conversation with the people you came with since eating is a social event, not to be rushed, and you need to settle down from whatever it was that you were doing before you can turn your mind to the food. When you order an antipasto, expect to wait for 20 minutes, because the goal of going out to eat is to socialize with whomever you came with, not to scarf down food.

There is no bread basket with butter that you are suppose to eat before you start the meal. How can you enjoy your meal if you're already full from having eaten a whole basket of bread and butter. Besides, there is no butter. There is never a cute little bowl with olive oil and balsamic vinegar for you to dip the bread into. It's just not done. I think that's a concept that Mario Batagli came up with in NY City, but it's unthinkable in Italy. The bread is to eat with your meal, not before your meal, as in if you want to wipe of some sauce. If you decide to have a pasta (nobody has an antipasto, primo piatto or first course, then a secondo piatto or second course, then a dolce or desert. You either have pasta as your main course, fish, or meat as your main course. No pasta, then a meat dish, unless you are sharing it, because nobody can eat that much). If you decide to go with pasta, then you never touch the bread. Pasta is a form of bread, so who wants to eat bread with bread? The only time you would touch the bread would be after you are finished with the pasta, and you really like the sauce, you might take a piece of bread and wipe up the sauce on the plate.

Expect to wait at least 20 minutes from the time you finish the antipasto, and the time you get the pasta. The longer it takes, the more courtesy they are showing, because instead of rushing you in and out, they are giving you space to enjoy being with the friends you went out to eat with. Eating is the evening's event. Why would you want to eat again a minute after you just finished eating the antipasto? The restaurant will give you 20-30 minutes before bringing you the pasta, fish, or meat dish, so that you can be at least a little hungry again. At the Italian restaurant I went to recently in San Francisco, no sooner than I put my fork down from eating the antipasto than they laid down my pasta dish. I had to say, "what the heck are you doing!? I just finished the antipasto! Why are you rushing me!"

Then, you'll be given ample time to decide on desert. Finally, they will ask if you want a digestivo, or if you want caffe'.It is considered rude for the waiter to bring you the check, so they will hold off on that as long as possible. You have to signal them to bring it. In fancier places it's a real courtesy if they ignore you and you have to signal them a second time. They are showing you that they want you to stay as long as you want, and to use their space to have an after dinner conversation with their friends. In the USA, no sooner than a few seconds after you put down your fork, or even worse, while you're still eating, they lay down the check and say, "No rush, whenever you are ready." That would be the absolute height of rudeness and insulting behavior in Italy. When I come back from Italy and it happens here, it makes my blood boil, thinking "I haven't even finished eating, and haven't even decided if I want something else, and you are bringing me the check, so you can turn the table over as often as possible to make more money on tips!" In Italy there is no tipping. The waiter is showing you great courtesy by not bringing you the check, signaling that you can stay there all night, relaxing with your friends. Someone from the USA is jumping up and down, with steam coming out of their ears, because it's been five minutes since they finished their main course, and they still haven't received the check, or any attention from the waiter, who is signaling that you can stay there as long as you want.

Rushing you through the meal, bringing one plate after the other within minutes, then handing you the check when you just started your main course is considered great service in the USA, but insulting in Italy. And no, the waiter is not going to come to the table and bend down and say, "Hi, my name is Christie, and I'll be your server today. Can I start you off with....." When describing the menu, they are not going to tell you which one is their favorite, because they are not the ones who will be eating; you are so their favorite is irrelevant.

Anyone who goes to Italy and expects the service to be like in the USA is going to say that the service was rude, and anyone who comes from Italy to the USA and eats is going to feel that they are being rushed, and that they want to get you out of the restaurant as fast as they possibly can, because they don't like something about you. In Italy, they show they like you by letting you wait and take all night, if that's what you want, before they will bring you the check.

I personally don't think that Armando would be on a top ten list, but they are still one of the best restaurants in Rome, and you will eat better there than you are probably going to eat anywhere else while in Rome, without having to go up quite a notch in price. Once you get used to eating at the Italian pace, you'll hate when you get back to the USA and receive, "excellent service" by being rushed through your meal and getting you in and out of the restaurant as quickly as possible, instead of as slowly as possible, so that you have time to digest your meal. Don't go by, "reviews" made buy travelers on their first trip to Italy, who are going to be in Rome for two days, as a reliable source of information about Italian food and culture.

Jeb321

Perche. Re Armando. As I saw the very many outstanding reviews (which is why I hurriedly made a reservation for dinner 6 weeks before I arrive in Rome) I also noticed on the same screen negative words about the restaurant. So I started looking, and yes, they turned out to be Trip Adviser (our favorite reviewer ahem ahem). Had there been 2 or even 3 negatives it would not have mattered, but there are many many reviews from people who have been repeat diners and newbies. One after the other reviews They cite "inedible" dishes, horrible service and not the same Armandos. They cited unclean dishes, just too many things, and interestingly, way too many cite one particular waiter...really a nasty sounding soul. So as I decided this reservation was for the day after I arrived, and I might even be jet lagged, it would be better to cancel the dinner and if I decide to take a chance I will try to make lunch reservation, if I decide.
So this is why I was hoping to come up with another recommendation for a trattoria, and if not as great so be it. I am a born and bred New Yorker living in Manhattan and part time in the Caribbean. I have eaten at many many restaurants and have seen them come and go. Experienced the best and perhaps worst in service and food so coming to Rome I want to get as tasty a meal without too much angina to go with it. So if you might suggest something, that would be great.