Breakfast price during booking and on the bill totally different...
Jun 14, 2019, 4:13 am
#16
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[...]
So what you need to do is to contact the hotel's accounting department if they have one, and request a bill that is not itemized. The hotel should have issued a bill for the total payment and have your bill as Accomodation only. It is doable from hotel management interface to issue bills under different settings. The hotel should never issue a bill that shows internal revenue division any way, unless required by law.
[...]
So what you need to do is to contact the hotel's accounting department if they have one, and request a bill that is not itemized. The hotel should have issued a bill for the total payment and have your bill as Accomodation only. It is doable from hotel management interface to issue bills under different settings. The hotel should never issue a bill that shows internal revenue division any way, unless required by law.
[...]
The entire issue is very specific to German tax and expenses regulations and in my opinion difficult to discuss in an international forum.
I would, however, also suggest to contact the hotel to verify if they have correctly charged.
Last edited by Chinatrvl; Jun 14, 2019 at 4:19 am
Jun 14, 2019, 7:13 am
#17
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What exactly is the problem then ?
What was the hotel and booking type?
Everything that you have posted has indicated that the final bill had the correct amount on it
EUR13 per person plus tax could come to EUR28 once taxes are added ( if rate displayed was exclusive of tax )
What was the rate quoted before adding breakfast and what did the hotel bill actually show.
I don't understand why you wouldn't have purchased breakfast it at EUR14 per person but would have purchased it at EUR13 per person
What was the hotel and booking type?
Everything that you have posted has indicated that the final bill had the correct amount on it
EUR13 per person plus tax could come to EUR28 once taxes are added ( if rate displayed was exclusive of tax )
What was the rate quoted before adding breakfast and what did the hotel bill actually show.
I don't understand why you wouldn't have purchased breakfast it at EUR14 per person but would have purchased it at EUR13 per person
Jun 14, 2019, 9:09 am
#18
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That's plain and simple illegal in Germany.
The entire issue is very specific to German tax and expenses regulations and in my opinion difficult to discuss in an international forum.
I would, however, also suggest to contact the hotel to verify if they have correctly charged.
The entire issue is very specific to German tax and expenses regulations and in my opinion difficult to discuss in an international forum.
I would, however, also suggest to contact the hotel to verify if they have correctly charged.
Jun 14, 2019, 1:53 pm
#19
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already mention above the different tax rates mean it could be seen as evasion.
I can see the OPs issue he booked a room he would be reimbursed for plus breakfast for 2 at 13EUR. While the overall cost might be the same they have cost the OP 15EUR as he couldn’t claim that back.
Though I always thought most corporate rates included breakfast and if they didn’t breakfast was allowable.
I can see the OPs issue he booked a room he would be reimbursed for plus breakfast for 2 at 13EUR. While the overall cost might be the same they have cost the OP 15EUR as he couldn’t claim that back.
Though I always thought most corporate rates included breakfast and if they didn’t breakfast was allowable.
Jun 14, 2019, 4:25 pm
#20
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Jun 15, 2019, 10:56 am
#21
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OP's employer doesn't reimburse breakfast but OP wants breakfast (or two?) included in the room rate so that it will be reimbursed. I question the ethics of trying to do this.
Jun 15, 2019, 11:51 am
#22
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OP is happy to pay for the difference in his own pocket as he said many times.
The online reservation system quoted a room only rate for €XX, and up sale to have breakfast for €13 in total. There is no where in reservation said breakfast would actually cost €28. To OP and many people, the breakfast cost is €13 more than room only rate.
OP is happy to pay the difference but he got a shock as the hotel provided an internal bill that separates hotel in-house departmental revenue division. That ends up with €28 for breakfast instead of €13 he was quoted.
I don't think OP would have booked this rate if he was told in advance that the room rate had a portion of revenue would go to hotel food and beverage department that was larger than the price quoted.
Jun 15, 2019, 12:09 pm
#23
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already mention above the different tax rates mean it could be seen as evasion.
I can see the OPs issue he booked a room he would be reimbursed for plus breakfast for 2 at 13EUR. While the overall cost might be the same they have cost the OP 15EUR as he couldn’t claim that back.
Though I always thought most corporate rates included breakfast and if they didn’t breakfast was allowable.
The issue here as I was trying to explain, in my understanding of lodging industry, and what I suspect was the hotel provided a bill that shows the internal division of the revenue which would go to different hotel department. I will try to explain again, the hotel has a room only rate of €100, and bed and breakfast rate of €113. It does not mean all the €113 will go to the hotel itself, but internal accounting procedure would require the hotel to split a portion of the rate to food and beverage department due to the breakfast inclusive. So the internal accounting procedure requires the room division to give €14 per person for breakfast revenue to the restaurant. Thus the internal bill instead of showing €113 in total, but itemized to €14X2=€28 to restaurant and the rest €85 to room division.
There is no law broken here. Because the issue is very clear to me. The OP was given an internal itemized bill which he should not be given.
But this does not work for the OP. Because OP believed the room only rate is €100 (supposedly) and he paid extra €13 for the breakfast. He would not know what hotel internal accounting would have such an impact that he would end up pay €28 instead of €13 after he claimed his expense from employer.
OP is not claiming back taxes, although his company may be able to claim back some of the VAT/GST paid (which I don't know, can only tell from other countries' experiences). We are not going into this territory because there is no need to.
But for the hotel, the bill should be reading Accommodation and Breakfast Charges €113. Because Bed and Breakfast rate is a simple single rate, it is counted as a single input entry in many countries' property management system. Only when the guest book a room only rate and then add breakfasts on property such items to be separated as they are different entries.
Since OP wanted a bill to separate room and food items in order to claim back room cost, the hotel reception made a mistake to issue an internal revenue division bill. This matter is as simple as this.
If you guys want to argue further on this issue with me, please do consider if you are staying in a Holiday Inn Express where all breakfasts are included. In this scenario the hotel would normally give you a bill with single entries of nightly charge. Bed and Breakfast rate is basically a nightly charge. You guys are thinking too much into this situation. Again I could be wrong. But at this moment I am confidant on what I am saying from my experiences with Property Management System and accounting background.
Jun 15, 2019, 8:50 pm
#24
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EUR13 doesn't seem to be an issue - the issue if I am understanding it correctly is that the OP thought that it was EUR13 for breakfast for 2 people whereas it was EUR13 per person for 2 people
It matters what the reservation system says - is it per person or EUR13 for 2 - also , if for 2, was it for 2 guests and were both people staying
It is perfectly correct that the breakfast be itemised since it was booked as an additional item
If it was a rate that was inclusive of breakfast, it shouldn't be itemised, but in this case breakfast was an addon
It matters what the reservation system says - is it per person or EUR13 for 2 - also , if for 2, was it for 2 guests and were both people staying
It is perfectly correct that the breakfast be itemised since it was booked as an additional item
If it was a rate that was inclusive of breakfast, it shouldn't be itemised, but in this case breakfast was an addon
Jun 16, 2019, 3:03 am
#25
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Breakfast is always itimized (at least in the fine print) in Germany as there are two different VAT rates. Hotels usually cannot "discount" breakfast by charging more for the room "item".
Furthermore, you can only claim 4.80 €/day for breakfast in travel expenses in Germany. However, there's a plethora of exceptions - and one is the solution the OP reported in post 12.
Furthermore, you can only claim 4.80 €/day for breakfast in travel expenses in Germany. However, there's a plethora of exceptions - and one is the solution the OP reported in post 12.
Jun 16, 2019, 8:11 am
#26
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OK, OP, you said in your original post
So it is clear to me that you got an itemized bill.
The thing is simple. Let us say you booked a room for €100, and during booking you added breakfast for €13. So your total room rate is €113.
But to hotels, the underlying rate is different. You now have a Room rate with Breakfast for €113. However, for the hotels, it is €85 revenue for the room and €28 revenue for the F&B department. It is a revenue division for hotel's accounting department. It is really an internal measure of how your room rate will be divided to different hotel revenue departments.
You might have requested the reception on check-out and asked them to issue a bill for room and breakfast, that was the problem. Inexperienced agent might have chosen wrong format for the bill, unknowing what you were exactly looking for.
So what you need to do is to contact the hotel's accounting department if they have one, and request a bill that is not itemized. The hotel should have issued a bill for the total payment and have your bill as Accomodation only. It is doable from hotel management interface to issue bills under different settings. The hotel should never issue a bill that shows internal revenue division any way, unless required by law.
So go back to the hotel and contact their accounting or front office manager, ask them to re-issue an invoice to show what you paid as Room Rate or Accommodation, rather than Room and Breakfast divide. If they said no, keep pressing the issue and tell them that you need it for reimbursement. I know from the hotel management system it is do-able. But if they insist they can not do then tough luck and do not go back to this hotel again.
So it is clear to me that you got an itemized bill.
The thing is simple. Let us say you booked a room for €100, and during booking you added breakfast for €13. So your total room rate is €113.
But to hotels, the underlying rate is different. You now have a Room rate with Breakfast for €113. However, for the hotels, it is €85 revenue for the room and €28 revenue for the F&B department. It is a revenue division for hotel's accounting department. It is really an internal measure of how your room rate will be divided to different hotel revenue departments.
You might have requested the reception on check-out and asked them to issue a bill for room and breakfast, that was the problem. Inexperienced agent might have chosen wrong format for the bill, unknowing what you were exactly looking for.
So what you need to do is to contact the hotel's accounting department if they have one, and request a bill that is not itemized. The hotel should have issued a bill for the total payment and have your bill as Accomodation only. It is doable from hotel management interface to issue bills under different settings. The hotel should never issue a bill that shows internal revenue division any way, unless required by law.
So go back to the hotel and contact their accounting or front office manager, ask them to re-issue an invoice to show what you paid as Room Rate or Accommodation, rather than Room and Breakfast divide. If they said no, keep pressing the issue and tell them that you need it for reimbursement. I know from the hotel management system it is do-able. But if they insist they can not do then tough luck and do not go back to this hotel again.
What you propose is called tax fraud in Germany as I explained quite a few times. In our part of the world hotel rates are inclusive tax. Difficult to imagine for Americans, but it is as it is.
A few known parameters: The OP booked a room for 100 and he upgraded to a room with breakfast for a total price of 113. The restaurant price for the breakfast shall be 26.
- If EUR 113 were a room only rate, the tax portion would be EUR 7,39 at 7% for room only
- If EUR 113 were EUR 100 for the room and EUR 13 for the breakfast, the tax portion would be EUR 6,54 for the room at 7% and ER 2,07 for the breakfast at 19%
- The tax correct way is EUR 26 for the breakfast (restaurant price) and EUR 87 for the room and this results in a tax portion of EUR 5,59 for the room at 7% and EUR 4,15 for the breakfast at 19%
- If there had been two people in the room, the offer price would still have been EUR 113,00, the invoice would have been ERU 61 for the room with a tax portion of EUR 3,99 at 7% and EUR 52 for the breakfast with a tax portion of EUR 8,30 at 19%.
Room has a tax privilege, breakfast has not. In inclusive rates, the breakfast need to be valued at market (restaurant) price and the chunk of the rates included 19% of tax.
Jun 16, 2019, 8:14 am
#27
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This is the way to make it compliant with tax laws as all hotel services other than the room are charged at 19% (like the breakfast). It leaves it to you whether or not you want to defraud your employer.
Jun 16, 2019, 5:20 pm
#28
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What you propose is called tax fraud in Germany as I explained quite a few times. In our part of the world hotel rates are inclusive tax. Difficult to imagine for Americans, but it is as it is.
A few known parameters: The OP booked a room for 100 and he upgraded to a room with breakfast for a total price of 113. The restaurant price for the breakfast shall be 26.
Room has a tax privilege, breakfast has not. In inclusive rates, the breakfast need to be valued at market (restaurant) price and the chunk of the rates included 19% of tax.
A few known parameters: The OP booked a room for 100 and he upgraded to a room with breakfast for a total price of 113. The restaurant price for the breakfast shall be 26.
- If EUR 113 were a room only rate, the tax portion would be EUR 7,39 at 7% for room only
- If EUR 113 were EUR 100 for the room and EUR 13 for the breakfast, the tax portion would be EUR 6,54 for the room at 7% and ER 2,07 for the breakfast at 19%
- The tax correct way is EUR 26 for the breakfast (restaurant price) and EUR 87 for the room and this results in a tax portion of EUR 5,59 for the room at 7% and EUR 4,15 for the breakfast at 19%
- If there had been two people in the room, the offer price would still have been EUR 113,00, the invoice would have been ERU 61 for the room with a tax portion of EUR 3,99 at 7% and EUR 52 for the breakfast with a tax portion of EUR 8,30 at 19%.
Room has a tax privilege, breakfast has not. In inclusive rates, the breakfast need to be valued at market (restaurant) price and the chunk of the rates included 19% of tax.
Jun 16, 2019, 10:33 pm
#29
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Jun 17, 2019, 4:40 am
#30
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