There really isn't a benefit to flying to NRT through ICN just to have a closing door. NH has an excellent all around product on the route and some availability can be had from ORD and IAD. If you want to maximize air time in F (this is FT after all) OZ would make more sense. CX makes no sense with the routing, and Id imagine SQ will add a lot of time with the LAX connection.

I was able to find a couple Saver awards in Singapore in first class via Singapore's website for dates that would work for me but then I was not able to see those flights on United's website. Based on what I have researched it looks like these flights are bookable using United points but that you have to call in order to do so and that they charge the phone fee even though the Singapore flights are not bookable online.

If I end up using Singapore Airlines, I would prefer to use United points if possible because I have quite a bit more United points than I do points transferable to KrisFlyer.

You can't book SQ First awards with United or any other partner. The only way to book SQ First award is with KrisFlyer points, which you can get by transferring from Amex MR or SPG (with a 25% bonus).

Bummer, thanks for the info!

I forgot about SPG as an option, thanks!

I was thinking Chase and Amex only (for what I have), this helps immensely

OZ F and NH F are both solid options and you won't go wrong with either. However on OZ F you'd want to fly either the A380 from LAX or the suites from JFK.

I flew both on the same trip (JFK - ICN - NRT on the outbound from the US and NRT - IAD on the return to the US) and I think NH F won by a hair (and that's with NRT - IAD being NH old F). It was more refined IMO though again both were top notch experiences.

Something to consider, the normal JFK - ICN - NRT routing puts you on an A321 (if you do a same day connection at ICN) and that was not a good flight to be on after a 14 hour flight from JFK (crappy domestic F style seats), whereas any NH F flight will end at NRT without needing to connect further.

Haven't flown SQ (in any class) so I can't compare either NH or OZ to that. Note that you get a 15% mileage discount if booking via KrisFlyer online

I've flown NH F and it is a very solid product. But as a SQ newbie, I am always attracted to the allure of SQ First :)

As others have said I would connect in LAX to take SQ LAX>NRT. They also have a Suites class on the A388 which is a separate class from First.

Excellent advice from one of FT's leading award F experts.

Cubswin, my wife and I have flown CX F as well a number of times and like you we love it. But the suites on the SQ 380 from LAX are a level above that, believe it or not. Get two of them together in the middle and the FAs will lower the divide between them when it's time for bed, providing you with essentially a double bed. And whether lying flat or simply reclining, the sliding door partitions between your seats and the aisles leave you with something close to a mini-cabin to yourselves (though the partitions are not so high that you have complete privacy ;)). And among other very nice touches, you have a choice between Dom and Krug for your bubbly.

Like others, I've also read reports of SQ releasing two F seats at a time on the 380 for a given route, so you might try that first before going to SFO777's good back-up plan for LAX-NRT (though not, as he notes, for the return).

One other thing to note about booking SQ F awards is that if you do so online you get a 15 percent discount on the miles required.

As you may know, though, you can't nab them using UA miles, despite the nominal Star Alliance link. The best options, if you have them, are converting Amex MRs and Chase URs into SQ miles. Others will know more about how to do so, if there is a lag involved in the conversion process, and how to minimize the risk of converting your points and then having no SQ flights to redeem them on. But one place to start is to find out how far in advance SQ opens up seats, so you can be ready to pounce if you go that route.

If you don't have enough points to convert to SQ miles for a RT, you can always do it just one way. It's worth it.

Having said all that, if you don't have enough points at all for SQ or if it doesn't work out for other reasons, four options I'd suggest considering are: 1) the "old standby" CX, via any number of US cities, since award availability using AA miles is still relatively good (particularly 330 days in advance) and it's a great value mileage redemption-wise (plus it's very possible once the new AA management completes the integration of AA and US this deal will become harder or more mileage expensive to do); or 2) EY using AA miles, though that will make for a considerably longer trip and EY redemptions cost a lot more miles than CX. We haven't flown it yet, but the EY F hard product is supposed to be outstanding in terms of partitions between the aisle and the seats and other comforts. The disadvantage relative to SQ, from what I understand, is that the service is more inconsistent and the divider between the middle seats does not go down to create a double bed; or 3) JL using AA miles via JFK, which would be the easiest trip even though not as good (from what I've read) as CX or EY. We were able to get two JL F seats NRT-JFK using AA miles for a trip we subsequently changed, so there is availability though perhaps not as good as CX; or 4) Korean Air using Chase UR points. Korean reportedly has good F award availability...though again from what I've read it's not quite in the same league as SQ, EY or CX and you'd have an extra connection compared to JL.

I haven't delved into UA redemption options here since I don't know much about availability and as you may know UA recently made it much more mileage expensive to redeem on partner airlines.

If I were in your shoes and had enough points, I'd go SQ LAX-NRT round-trip. If only enough points for SQ OW but I had a lot of AA miles to splurge and the time to do so, I'd do EY for the other OW. If I didn't have oodles of miles or simply wanted to conserve, I'd go with CX if the better TPAC experience is the priority, or JL (which I'm sure is fine) for the easier routing.

Thunderroad, as usual, you are awesome.

I may not be able to transfer in enough points to be able to do SQ both ways, so it looks like American points or United points for one of the directions.

Knowing this, I am going to slowly read through the thread again to decipher all of the airline codes, relate codes to partners, etc. :)

Have you actually flown any of these F seats that have doors though ? There are very few airlines that has doors in the F seats: EK F, SQ R, OZ F (JFK for now, previously ORD), TG F on the 77W (leased from 9W). Any F seats that have door truly feel like you are flying in F (LH's F on the 744 that have separate seat+bed is a whole different category though, it is justified not to have doors), as if there are no doors, many airlines have the similar F seats, and I believe OP was asking about best F class.



NH is excellent, but NH don't release 2 F seats at a time per flight, it is usually 1 seat, then you have to wait til close the departure (2 weeks or less) to release the 2nd F seat, and it is not guaranteed the 2nd seat will release at all, so basically you could wait for nothing. (OP is looking for 2 seats from post#1)

OZ however is different compare to NH, they don't hold seats like NH does, OZ in a way is like TG, if there are F seats, they don't hold it, so it is not hard to get 2 or even 3 F seats at the same time until it dries up.

Even if SQ will add a lot of time with the LAX connection, it is still worth it to fly R on the 380, the hard product, the soft product, the food, all well above and beyond. If it is not SQ hold back R/F/C on the 380 and 77W, every FTers will use SQ for awards as their #1 choice !

I'm doing 3 F seats on JAL LAX NRT in August and returning with 3 F seats NRT-DFW in late August

I was limited as I had lots of trouble finding 3 F at the saver level using AA miles.


however I did it and will let you know how those are.

No way can I match the photos posted by SFO777 which were nothing short of fantastic but I have to ask about the" I know he bangs all his co-workers" sub title comment on the video screen in one of the picture, I was lmao when I saw that

I'll snap some photos though and post them of JAL vs AA F to/from NRT

Thanks for all of the excellent information everyone!

All of this has sent me on a barrage of research. I'm afraid that after doing all my research that I need to rephrase my question. I just don't think I have the combination of points in order to be able to transfer to Singapore Airlines AND get the Hyatt hotels that I want in Japan - Park Hyatt Tokyo, Hyatt Kyoto, etc. (I run out of Chase points).

I guess my new question would be:

Using my American Airlines points is Japan Airlines the best first class available that is direct from the mainland to Tokyo (I love Cathay but don't want to go through Hong Kong) and it seems NH doesn't have two F seats available in general.

Thanks for everything you guys have said. I was able to use all of the information to simplify my question to this point. I genuinely appreciate it all.

thx a lot.

Using those parameters I would say yes - it's definitely the best value of any option since AA still charges just 62.5k for F one-way to Tokyo.

I would say OZ F would be worth considering (since they do tend to release 2 seats) but UA will also charge you 110k for partner F one-way to Tokyo and I don't think OZ is worth 47.5k more miles than JL or a combined 95k for 2 people (that's enough for a 3rd JL F ticket).

That being said JL space can be difficult to find so you will need to be flexible in your dates and be flexible which US airport you depart out of and arrive back into (and be aware that not all JL flights to the US have F on them - including 1 of the 2 JFK flights which is served by a 788 and only has J and Y, no F)

There may be other ways and *A programs that would allow you to get OZ F for cheaper but I don't know them (so other may chime in with different opinions on that front).

62.5

JAL is not that difficult in my opinion to find. I found 3 seats up front the first day and within a week of when I wanted to go.

After reading about JAL though, I'm thinking I should have kept my AA F seats instead. I do have 3 F for AA on the return which I'm happy about.

there is a lot on the JAL forum on the JAL LAX-NRT flights