Best First Class to Tokyo (NRT)
 

I have points across all programs, so I think I have most airlines available to me. Here is the information about what I am trying to do:

1. Two first class tickets Nashville to NRT (I could fly to Chicago using BA miles or L.A. using Southwest, etc. if I had to)
2. I would prefer to fly REASONABLY direct from the U.S. (rather not go to New Zealand for a layover or something)
3. Would want to leave sometime in mid-June or July of 2015.
4. The program doesn't HAVE to be the cheapest in points if there is a significantly better first class product but I won't go crazy and get ripped off in points either.

In general, I would like to hear what you folks think might be my best option for this trip. We flew Catchay Pacific first class from Chicago to Hong Kong and absolutely loved it and would love another experience of that type.

Thanks!

If Singapore flies to nrt even indirect I would take them for the best first class

Best First Class to Tokyo (NRT)
 

SQ or Asiana

I thought they only released one first class at a time? Am I wrong about that?

Interesting, I do not know much about Asiana first class. Better that Japan Airlines you think?

Jl has the best business class btw if you get stuck in it

I vote against Asiana. Flying from Nashville, you'll have at least one connection. If you want only one connection, and the domestic leg to be as short as possible, then fly to ORD, and then NRT on Japan Airlines.

SQ is rather consistently releasing 2 R seats at a time these days. Lots of availability for your desired mid-June/July dates. Best F product out there bar-none IMO but inconvenient because of the LAX connection.

I would say ANA for ORD-NRT can't be beat. The service is truly one of the best out there. But the downside is ANA seems to only release 1 seat and would rather let the rest of the cabin depart empty without releasing any more seats.

Haven't tried JL, but they do release 2 F seats on the ORD-NRT on a consistent basis.

New A380 looks pretty special! Booked a couple of clients on it...very jealous. Working on gettibg myself on it when it comes out in the end of August

I did not realize that they were releasing two now! Very interesting.......I don't mind the LAX connection much at all and have always wanted to fly on Singapore.

Do you find that availability is better using KrisFlyer points directly or is the availability the same booking through a Star Alliance partner?

You tiltle totally contradict with what you said.

There is no way to get best first class without using the maximum of miles. SQ Suites on A380 LAX-NRT is the best, but you have to spend extra miles for that.


Yes, and even if it is not OZ, I would choose NH over JL in F.

That sounds amazing! I am trying to research where the A380s will be flying to/from right now

I didn't do a ton of research on Singapore because I didn't think they released two seats at once!

Really ? I think the majority of JL's planes still use Shell Flat Neo for C class instead of Skysuites on the 763 ?

You do know the Shell Flat Neo is an angle seat with 2-3-2 seating right ? Compare to NH majority of their 77W are Business Staggered with all aisle access.


There is only one route SQ use the 380 to the US, which is SQ 11/12 LAX-NRT

I should try to clarify.

I meant that I don't would rather spend 100,000 points for a GREAT first class experience (for example) than 220,000 or something crazy for the absolute best.

BUT I don't mind spending say 120,00 for the absolute best (again, for example).

Long story short, I will spend more points if necessary but I don't wouldn't go insane with it just to fly one particular brand because I know there are several good choices to NRT

I probably should have left it out of my initial post in all honesty.

OZ's F product out of JFK and also LAX is exceptional, both JFK and LAX (one flight is a 380) have F suites that have doors to close for privacy, no one has similar hard product other than SQ and EK.

I haven't flown JL F personally, but base on trip reports and words of mouth, JL's F product is below par compare with SQ, OZ, CX, and NH.

Singapore.

SQ does occasionally release two Saver seats in advance, but more typically just one Saver. But they also usually release a separate LAX-SIN Saver seat. This will cost 20K or so more but still a lot cheaper than a LAX-NRT Standard award. Just don't re-board the plane for the NRT-SIN leg since all pax must deplane at NRT for security. That trick doesn't work as well on the return. ;)

We did this in April. My SQ Suites LAX-NRT Trip Report.

NH is also excellent but very difficult to find 2 F award seats.

There really isn't a benefit to flying to NRT through ICN just to have a closing door. NH has an excellent all around product on the route and some availability can be had from ORD and IAD. If you want to maximize air time in F (this is FT after all) OZ would make more sense. CX makes no sense with the routing, and Id imagine SQ will add a lot of time with the LAX connection.

I was able to find a couple Saver awards in Singapore in first class via Singapore's website for dates that would work for me but then I was not able to see those flights on United's website. Based on what I have researched it looks like these flights are bookable using United points but that you have to call in order to do so and that they charge the phone fee even though the Singapore flights are not bookable online.

If I end up using Singapore Airlines, I would prefer to use United points if possible because I have quite a bit more United points than I do points transferable to KrisFlyer.

You can't book SQ First awards with United or any other partner. The only way to book SQ First award is with KrisFlyer points, which you can get by transferring from Amex MR or SPG (with a 25% bonus).

Bummer, thanks for the info!

I forgot about SPG as an option, thanks!

I was thinking Chase and Amex only (for what I have), this helps immensely

OZ F and NH F are both solid options and you won't go wrong with either. However on OZ F you'd want to fly either the A380 from LAX or the suites from JFK.

I flew both on the same trip (JFK - ICN - NRT on the outbound from the US and NRT - IAD on the return to the US) and I think NH F won by a hair (and that's with NRT - IAD being NH old F). It was more refined IMO though again both were top notch experiences.

Something to consider, the normal JFK - ICN - NRT routing puts you on an A321 (if you do a same day connection at ICN) and that was not a good flight to be on after a 14 hour flight from JFK (crappy domestic F style seats), whereas any NH F flight will end at NRT without needing to connect further.

Haven't flown SQ (in any class) so I can't compare either NH or OZ to that. Note that you get a 15% mileage discount if booking via KrisFlyer online

I've flown NH F and it is a very solid product. But as a SQ newbie, I am always attracted to the allure of SQ First :)

As others have said I would connect in LAX to take SQ LAX>NRT. They also have a Suites class on the A388 which is a separate class from First.

Excellent advice from one of FT's leading award F experts.

Cubswin, my wife and I have flown CX F as well a number of times and like you we love it. But the suites on the SQ 380 from LAX are a level above that, believe it or not. Get two of them together in the middle and the FAs will lower the divide between them when it's time for bed, providing you with essentially a double bed. And whether lying flat or simply reclining, the sliding door partitions between your seats and the aisles leave you with something close to a mini-cabin to yourselves (though the partitions are not so high that you have complete privacy ;)). And among other very nice touches, you have a choice between Dom and Krug for your bubbly.

Like others, I've also read reports of SQ releasing two F seats at a time on the 380 for a given route, so you might try that first before going to SFO777's good back-up plan for LAX-NRT (though not, as he notes, for the return).

One other thing to note about booking SQ F awards is that if you do so online you get a 15 percent discount on the miles required.

As you may know, though, you can't nab them using UA miles, despite the nominal Star Alliance link. The best options, if you have them, are converting Amex MRs and Chase URs into SQ miles. Others will know more about how to do so, if there is a lag involved in the conversion process, and how to minimize the risk of converting your points and then having no SQ flights to redeem them on. But one place to start is to find out how far in advance SQ opens up seats, so you can be ready to pounce if you go that route.

If you don't have enough points to convert to SQ miles for a RT, you can always do it just one way. It's worth it.

Having said all that, if you don't have enough points at all for SQ or if it doesn't work out for other reasons, four options I'd suggest considering are: 1) the "old standby" CX, via any number of US cities, since award availability using AA miles is still relatively good (particularly 330 days in advance) and it's a great value mileage redemption-wise (plus it's very possible once the new AA management completes the integration of AA and US this deal will become harder or more mileage expensive to do); or 2) EY using AA miles, though that will make for a considerably longer trip and EY redemptions cost a lot more miles than CX. We haven't flown it yet, but the EY F hard product is supposed to be outstanding in terms of partitions between the aisle and the seats and other comforts. The disadvantage relative to SQ, from what I understand, is that the service is more inconsistent and the divider between the middle seats does not go down to create a double bed; or 3) JL using AA miles via JFK, which would be the easiest trip even though not as good (from what I've read) as CX or EY. We were able to get two JL F seats NRT-JFK using AA miles for a trip we subsequently changed, so there is availability though perhaps not as good as CX; or 4) Korean Air using Chase UR points. Korean reportedly has good F award availability...though again from what I've read it's not quite in the same league as SQ, EY or CX and you'd have an extra connection compared to JL.

I haven't delved into UA redemption options here since I don't know much about availability and as you may know UA recently made it much more mileage expensive to redeem on partner airlines.

If I were in your shoes and had enough points, I'd go SQ LAX-NRT round-trip. If only enough points for SQ OW but I had a lot of AA miles to splurge and the time to do so, I'd do EY for the other OW. If I didn't have oodles of miles or simply wanted to conserve, I'd go with CX if the better TPAC experience is the priority, or JL (which I'm sure is fine) for the easier routing.

Thunderroad, as usual, you are awesome.

I may not be able to transfer in enough points to be able to do SQ both ways, so it looks like American points or United points for one of the directions.

Knowing this, I am going to slowly read through the thread again to decipher all of the airline codes, relate codes to partners, etc. :)

Have you actually flown any of these F seats that have doors though ? There are very few airlines that has doors in the F seats: EK F, SQ R, OZ F (JFK for now, previously ORD), TG F on the 77W (leased from 9W). Any F seats that have door truly feel like you are flying in F (LH's F on the 744 that have separate seat+bed is a whole different category though, it is justified not to have doors), as if there are no doors, many airlines have the similar F seats, and I believe OP was asking about best F class.



NH is excellent, but NH don't release 2 F seats at a time per flight, it is usually 1 seat, then you have to wait til close the departure (2 weeks or less) to release the 2nd F seat, and it is not guaranteed the 2nd seat will release at all, so basically you could wait for nothing. (OP is looking for 2 seats from post#1)

OZ however is different compare to NH, they don't hold seats like NH does, OZ in a way is like TG, if there are F seats, they don't hold it, so it is not hard to get 2 or even 3 F seats at the same time until it dries up.

Even if SQ will add a lot of time with the LAX connection, it is still worth it to fly R on the 380, the hard product, the soft product, the food, all well above and beyond. If it is not SQ hold back R/F/C on the 380 and 77W, every FTers will use SQ for awards as their #1 choice !

I'm doing 3 F seats on JAL LAX NRT in August and returning with 3 F seats NRT-DFW in late August

I was limited as I had lots of trouble finding 3 F at the saver level using AA miles.


however I did it and will let you know how those are.

No way can I match the photos posted by SFO777 which were nothing short of fantastic but I have to ask about the" I know he bangs all his co-workers" sub title comment on the video screen in one of the picture, I was lmao when I saw that

I'll snap some photos though and post them of JAL vs AA F to/from NRT

Thanks for all of the excellent information everyone!

All of this has sent me on a barrage of research. I'm afraid that after doing all my research that I need to rephrase my question. I just don't think I have the combination of points in order to be able to transfer to Singapore Airlines AND get the Hyatt hotels that I want in Japan - Park Hyatt Tokyo, Hyatt Kyoto, etc. (I run out of Chase points).

I guess my new question would be:

Using my American Airlines points is Japan Airlines the best first class available that is direct from the mainland to Tokyo (I love Cathay but don't want to go through Hong Kong) and it seems NH doesn't have two F seats available in general.

Thanks for everything you guys have said. I was able to use all of the information to simplify my question to this point. I genuinely appreciate it all.

thx a lot.

Using those parameters I would say yes - it's definitely the best value of any option since AA still charges just 62.5k for F one-way to Tokyo.

I would say OZ F would be worth considering (since they do tend to release 2 seats) but UA will also charge you 110k for partner F one-way to Tokyo and I don't think OZ is worth 47.5k more miles than JL or a combined 95k for 2 people (that's enough for a 3rd JL F ticket).

That being said JL space can be difficult to find so you will need to be flexible in your dates and be flexible which US airport you depart out of and arrive back into (and be aware that not all JL flights to the US have F on them - including 1 of the 2 JFK flights which is served by a 788 and only has J and Y, no F)

There may be other ways and *A programs that would allow you to get OZ F for cheaper but I don't know them (so other may chime in with different opinions on that front).

62.5

JAL is not that difficult in my opinion to find. I found 3 seats up front the first day and within a week of when I wanted to go.

After reading about JAL though, I'm thinking I should have kept my AA F seats instead. I do have 3 F for AA on the return which I'm happy about.

there is a lot on the JAL forum on the JAL LAX-NRT flights

Yeah, my guess is that JL F JFK-NRT is your best bet under the circumstances, followed by other JF F options if that routing proves unavailable. And I'm sure it will be very fine!

In a related time-saving and miles-saving mode if those are priorities, and as a fallback, you could also consider AA (!!!) in F from the USA to NRT, if it offers the 777W with the new F seats on a given route. It won't be the same cultural experience and the service likely won't be as good, but it will get you there with a nice hard product. But based on my own brief inquiries and the post above, I'd think you'll be able to snare two JL F seats.

A few more thoughts:

1. In exploring award space, see if HND (Haneeda) is available. I've never been through there, but it's the "other" Tokyo airport and is actually much closer to town. Some major carriers have started flying there in recent years.
2. Yet another variation on the theme re award space is to see if you could fly into or out of other major Japanese airports such as Nagoya (??) and Osaka for your trip, since they might be closer to where you'll start or end up in Japan. In planning our own wonderful trip, for example, I hadn't focused on the fact that Kyoto is much closer to Osaka than Tokyo, so wasted some time traveling back to Tokyo when flying out of the country.
3. Have you yet gotten and used the Hyatt Visa card that offers two free nights at any Hyatt in the world if space is available (which it generally is, if you book sufficiently far in advance)? Between you and your spouse, you could have four free nights at the Park Hyatt Tokyo, which would save you the conversion of some Chase Ultimate Reward points (which could in turn help open up the possibility of those SQ 380 F suites).
4. The PHT really is a unique hotel and memorable experience, by the way. As you may know, it's not as well situated as the Grand Hyatt, but getting around Tokyo is manageable from there anyway and we're glad we stayed at the PHT. Plus it is perhaps a 20 minute walk from a very nice large park (sorry I can't recall the name, but a map or the PHT can direct you there) that shares some green space with a a large temple area. And roughly on the other side of the park from where the PHT is, there is a major shopping street (that I believe is well known enough that the PHT will know about it) that becomes much more interesting once you branch off of it to the smaller side streets nearby, which have smaller shops, cafes, etc.
5. I've read great reports about the Hyatt Kyoto, so wouldn't discourage you from going there. But if you're looking to save Chase UR points/Hyatt points and if you have some SPG points to burn, one alternative to consider is the Westin Kyoto. It is a big, somewhat westernized hotel that lacks the charm and sophistication that I'd imagine the Hyatt and other properties have. But we found it to be fine (it helped that we lucked out with a rare suite upgrade due to my SPG Platinum status, though we would have liked it anyway) and really liked it's location: walking distance to what we considered the best and prettiest part of Kyoto, the Philosopher's Path that offers an easy stroll through nearby hills. The PP offers a full day of strolling to temples, manicured gardens, and small handicrafts and clothes shops and cute restaurants, and is less crowded than the center of town. Also near some hiking trails if you're so inclined, though we didn't explore those.
6. In a related experience-maximizing vein, I believe Hyatt still offers the Diamond status test run (or whatever it's called, exactly) for 90 days (???). If you time that right with your trip, the Diamond status would get you complimentary breakfasts, room upgrades and perhaps other perks on your trip. We did that for our stay at the PHT (combining it with the aforementioned four free Hyatt nights); it made a memorable stay even more so, including providing us with a wonderful breakfast that otherwise would have cost a fortune! More information at whether this Diamond status deal is still available and how it works (including whether you can still couple it with a free nights stay) at the Hyatt forum.
7. Other unsolicited thoughts: a) The bullet trains are fun and impressive. b) the manicured gardens are incredible! c) We were very underwhelmed by the ryokan (traditional Japanese guest inn) experience, but that could have been because we picked a poor (though expensive!) one; if you do decide to shell out for one, do some research and book far in advance. d) I'd highly recommend the "Haunted Tokyo Tour" walking tour we took with an American expat woman who's lived in Japan for many years: http://www.hauntedtokyotours.com/ Despite the way it's billed at the website as "ghost walks", it is more of an explanation of Japan's spiritual life and exploration of some Tokyo back streets and neighborhoods, which are much more interesting that its main avenues.

As you can see, I can really wax enthusiastic about Japan! In addition to all of the above, the day to day way in which the culture operates is fascinating and impressive. Have a great trip!

Whoops - I should know that since I just booked one...

Was thinking of the pre-deval UA ticket I have booked on NH F for the return :D

We got our flights to Tokyo booked on JAL first class from L.A. to Tokyo (Narita) and are ecstatic about it! Thanks so much for everyone's help!!!

Thunderroad, we are staying at the Westin Kyoto and flying back out of Osaka purely based on you thoughts, so thanks again!

Right now we are thinking that we will do 5 nights in Tokyo (Park Hyatt), 5 nights in the Westin Kyoto (with a day trip elsewehere or two), and two nights in Osaka at the Interccontinental. It looks like JAL from Osaka-Tokyo-L.A. is probably our best way to get back home (with a connection L.A. to Nashville to finish it off)?

I have used several of your suggestions and would LOVE any additional thoughts, ideas, corrections, recomendadtions, etc.

Thanks again!

My pleasure, Cubswin. A few more thoughts:

1. When are you going? That could affect some advice you could get here or elsewhere.
2. Also, what is your status at the hotels where you'll be staying? That could affect the advice you get re your hotels. You might want to include that in your FT ID information that goes with every post.
3. Now that you've nailed down the basic hotel/airline choices, you might pose specific questions in the Japan Forum here and at Tripadvisor.com's various Japan forums. (Just don't duplicate questions in this thread and that other forum, as that would violate FT rules.) As much as I value the FT community, sometimes I find the TA advice on specific destinations (as opposed to airlines and hotel chains) equally or more useful.
4. Not far from Kyoto, the old and somewhat less touristed historic Japanese city of Nara is well worth a visit. It's about an easy hour train ride away from Kyoto. We were fortunate enough to have an old friend show us around, but it seemed that finding your way on your own would be easy enough. Among the many highlights is an incredibly impressive, huge wooden temple and small deer that are so accustomed to people that they'll come pretty close without hesitation (though don't hold food near them or they'll reach for it!).
5. I would think that five nights each in Tokyo and Kyoto would be good. Assuming you are a Cubs fan and depending on when you are in Japan, you might want to look into attending a Japanese baseball game. It's supposed to be a real cultural experience. I'm sure the PH concierge can help if you can't arrange it on your own. I'd imagine the tickets might be expensive.
6. Actually, speaking of which, prepare for some sticker shock on many items in Japan. We found some excellent reasonably priced noodle shops that were great and some reasonably prices scarves and sweaters at little shops/stalls along the Philosopher's Path. But just accept that visiting this incredible country comes with a co$t. (If you have sufficient status at any of the hotel chains you'll be staying at, you'll save a lot via the complimentary breakfasts. If you can in fact get the Hyatt Diamond status I mentioned in a previous post, that entitles you to something like $75 per head (???) breakfast, for instance.)
7. Also be prepared that just about any hotel will be a letdown after the Park Hyatt. As I indicated, the Westin Kyoto is fine; but it's not nearly in the same league as the PH.
8. If you have Platinum status with Starwood, you'll get complimentary lounge breakfasts as well as late afternoon drinks and snacks at the Kyoto Westin. The main restaurant breakfast downstairs has a much larger spread, however.
9. The one bad piece of advice we got from the otherwise excellent concierge at the Park Hyatt was to say that just a very few days in Kyoto is sufficient. I'd say that your five nights there is a good plan, especially if you do a day trip or two.
10. I don't know enough about Osaka to know whether it's worth a night or two, as we did not make it there at all. If your flight out of there is late enough in the day and the advice you get elsewhere weighs against Osaka, you could even skip spending a night in the city entirely by simply seeing if taking a train from Kyoto and getting to the Osaka airport the same day is feasible.
11. Not sure where I'd recommend going instead if you do cut out Osaka. We spent three nights (IIRC) in Hiroshima and there is a decent and points-inexpensive Sheraton right near the train station. Visiting the city was pretty powerful, though for some reason I just was not that crazy about the museum. We also took a short trip on a (commuter-style) train and then a quick ferry from there a nearby island that I'm sorry I can't recall the name of.
12. In suggesting flying out of Osaka, I had in mind a non-stop flight from there to the USA. But your Osaka-Tokyo-LA itinerary sounds fine to me; it will save you the expense and most of the time and hassle that we had in taking the train from Kyoto to Tokyo and then on Narita.

1. We are going in mid-June. Bummer that it is the rainy season but my wife is a school teacher, so we don't have much of an option.
2. I am Hyatt Platinum (but will be tryin for a Diamond Trial before the trip), HHonors Gold, Fairmont Premier, IHG Platinum, and Starwood Gold.
3. Will DEFINITELY checkout this forum and TA forum, thanks.
4. I have made notes to checkout Nara for sure!
5. I would LOVE to see a baseball game but I need to sell my wife on it a bit. I am a large guy (6'4" - 300LBS) and am a LITTLE concerened about if I woould fit in the seat - pictured a retired offensive lineman :)
6. No problem on the co$t. We feel that we are able to take such advantage with thee hotels and flights that if we spend a few bucks while we are there that it's just part of it....not that we aren't aware of cost AT ALL, just not stressed about a few bucks here or there.
7. I am comfortable in any hotel, so even if the other hotels pale in comparison to thee Park Hyatt, I will sstill be happy.
8. I don't have Platinum with Starwood and am not sure howw to gain it since I don't get many paid nights each year. Any way to match to Starwood Platinum or gain it in another way that you know of?
9. Great, Kyoto for 5 nights sounds wonderful. If we get bored of it for some reason we can just take a few day trips.
10. I will continue researching Osaka as a destination. One thing I thought iss that it might give us a chance to get to some of the western cities that might be too far for a day trip from Kyoto.
11. I love the idea of visiting Hiroshima and was thinking of maybe a day trip from Osaka or Kyoto (I have not researched the distances yet)
12. I did not see any non-stop flights from Osaka to the U.S. mainland but I would rather get my luggage on a plane in Osaka, hang out at lounges, etc. than take a train back towards Tokyo

Thanks again!

FWIW, I've twice snagged two F seats at once on NH TPAC, most recently about two weeks ago for ORD-NRT in mid-August. 240k miles and $1,100 in YQ and taxes.

Someone already mentioned flying in to HND as an option and I'd second that as NRT is far away from the city and HND much closer if you want to save time and hassle. Plus, JAL is swapping a 787 into a 77W on the SFO-HND route both ways so there's tons of award space in F and can use AA miles.

Just booked HND-SFO on the way home on JAL in F and am going to spend a couple days in San Fran. Thanks for the idea!