Oneworld and India
 

So this may be wishful thinking - but let's face - Kingfisher looks like its gone beyond recovery and at best it will be a small domestic boutique airline flying a few routes if it does bounce back and that's a big IF...

So - I am putting a thought / wish / hope out there....

Jet Airways should join oneworld. 9W has always been the more professional quality experience which IMHO is a better match for OW with the likes of CX/BA/AA/QF each IMHO being the best in their region.

I know internally the reason 9W is hesitant to join OW is their view that LHR isn't a hub that can be grown much further given costs and availability of slots and *A allows them the option of growing BRU/FRA/MUC/ZRH/GVA etc. But OW also provides the options of HEL/BCN/MAD.
I understand that OW was the last on Goyal's list of option and he would go with Skyteam before OW - with the option of MXP/CDG/AMS as hubs to grow (in fact if *a doesn't go through they may even consider shifting all BRU ops to AMS).

However, I believe they are taking too much of a route based simplistic view on joining an alliance and there are other factors to consider - such as quality of the company you are associating with. IMHO Sky team is at the bottom of the list and *A wins on scale / size while *O wins on quality.

This is going to be an interesting year in which any of the following could happen

1) NO INDIAN AIRLINE JOINS ANY ALLIANCE
2) AI - either Star or Skyteam
3) 9W - Star / Skyteam / Oneworld
4) IT - Bounces back and joins OW or fades away...

Any thoughts?

Any particular reason why you think that AI wouldn't want to join OW? The reason ST was cited as the major backup option for them when *A susupended was because IT was on track to join OW at the time... If IT goes under, I don't think that AI joining OW would be a particularly unlikely scenario... No less so than 9W joining anyway.

I don't see any OW member airline rushing in to sponsor AI's membership into OW. To me, OW has always seemed like the most selective alliance amongst the three and they'd likely approach 9W before they approach AI. And rightly so, IMO.

Once again, I'd disagree for reasons mentioned above. OW wouldn't want to risk diluting its image by going after a *A reject.

My vote is for the above.

I will be (pleasantly) surprised if any Indian airline actually joins an alliance this year.

While I think that BA would absolutely adore the idea of A380 slots in India, your reasoning does make quite a bit of sense...

Quite honestly, I expect ST and OW to fight over 9W while *A quietly takes AI and tries to make the best of what it has...

If Keyser's plan fails and IT ceases operations, I could see 9W joining OW rather soon. Let's face it, 9W is just not going to join *A. AI will never get in and will never let any other Indianairline get in. And no one really wants to join ST.

I disagree. AI will get in when *A realizes that they have no other option...

They decided to play hardball, and they're paying for it now...

Fine. Assuming AI makes it into *A, they will try to prevent another Indian airline from joining them. AI knows that if both it and 9W join *A, people will just fly 9W and not AI. This leaves OW as the next best option for 9W. Given this, I think that 9W might as well try to join OW now itself (assuming IT doesn't survive).

Quite right. But even without my AI-colored glasses on, I would be strongly opposed to AI and 9W being part of the same alliance. That would basically give *A a monopoly on the Indian market. And that would be a terrible, terrible thing.

Exactly - and a monopoly that would play right into the hands of the middle eastern carriers who have the scale to survive alliance free.
You'll have *A and then EK pretty much dominating Indian skies with OW and Skyteam being relegated to the sidelines which in the long run isn't good for us - the consumer.
Having a serious presence in both OW and *A from India is better for us - the consumer... so I hope it happens.

BTW - My TA informed me that they can no longer book or issue IT using their amadeus / IATA BSP set up and no interline documents will be accepted. IT is now asking them for a bank guarantee / deposit to issue tickets through their website and given the low demand for IT flights, they have taken a decision not to issue IT and told me any IT travel to buy directly and at my own risk.

Dude, seriously, does your love for dosa serving AI make you think it is a quality airline that has remote chance of getting into an alliance like 1W?

Well, after reading SQ421's reasoning, I'd be inclined to think that the likelyhood of AI joining OW is rather low...

However, I do think that AI is higher quality than the likes of AA, IB, QF, and S7, which are all proud members of the oneworld alliance.

There are better places to have dosas. Have you tried the bene dosa in BLR?

Have you tried my grandmother's dosa in IXE? No restaurant/airline can beat that...

It's not the dosas which bring me to AI.. It's the fact that the whole experience is better than the competition...

I think that AI has a superior onboard experience compared to the airlines you listed. But it seriously lags them in many other ways such as the competence/reliability of ground staff, call center agents and the website. I know you feel that the website does the job, but I think it's horrible. It has the features and functionalities of the 1990s. Not 2000s and definitely not 2010s.

Another fact?

Or is this also going to become yet another denial-slash-recantation?

AI ground staff (and call center staff as well) tend to be competent. You just have to convince them to use that competence to actually do work instead of disappear on their next tea break ;):p

Website has improved quite a bit recently. Remember when I quoted that IIT grad calling the AI website "smooth and intuitive" ? The recent redesign has been a smashing success. Clearly you disagree ;)

Ugh. Saying "It is a fact that XYZ is *insert subjective form adjective here*" doesn't mean that it is a fact and not an opinion. To be able to tell them apart, you need to have passed a high school English course. Clearly you forget all the content you learned :rolleyes:

What are you smoking and where can I get some :D

I just hit www.airindia.in, and its annoying how often the mouse loses focus while navigating between the header and the nested options!

As to AI being "better" than QF, yet again, I'd disagree. The international hard product (especially the flagship version) is much better on the QF A380's (and being retrofitted to 747s and 330s). On ground experience is extremely competent without having to convince the staff to do their job.

I have no such problems - that has more to do with your browser settings than it has to do with the design of the website.. I agree that it is very annoying on the websites which I do have that problem on though...
*shrug* You're entitled to your opinion...

Although if you say that AA, IB, or S7 is better than AI, it'll be my turn to ask the question ;)

Well I think the website was horrible before and still quite mediocre now. Examples:
1. For example, for a long time there was no "forgot password" feature on the Flying Returns website. They recently put up a "request new password" link, but the link has always been broken.
2. Look at:
http://airindia.in/SBCMS/Webpages/De...ns.aspx?mid=26
The contact email addresses for station managers in cities like Kathmandu and Dhaka are yahoo.com addresses, not airindia.com addresses. That's extremely bush league in my view.
3. Check out:
http://airindia.in/SBCMS/Webpages/In...y.aspx?MID=27#
It's pretty bush league (as you can see this is one of my favorite words to describe the AI website) how the menu on the left goes beyond the frame of the page.

One might argue that these are relatively harmless errors. But someone like me loses faith in the actual running of this airline because I perceive the managers to have a similar, constant lack of attention to detail. I would not want to fly an airline like this because the management comes across as generally apathetic and uninterested in their job (which is about providing me with good service, both inside and outside the aircraft).

Dude, seriously? I know you had a smiley face, so this was said tongue in cheek. But when you yourself think that the AI staff don't do their job (whether incompetence or laziness or whatever), how can we believe that you really are not an AI troll?

Oh, I've never had that experience. But I've heard of others who have...

AI staff in my experience have been competent, courteous, and *insert positive adjective that starts with c here*.

Well, I'm using the same browser (on a laptop) to browse that website as I am to benchmark the website of other airlines I've used in the recent past. QF, SQ, VA, DL

It's a fair apples to apples comparison.

Except, none of what I said was based on an "opinion".

Skybed MkII and the First Class Suite on QF are atleast as good if not better than the hard product in J and F on Air India. The added components of on ground and in-air service delivery makes it even better.

And you'll not find the need to "convince the staff to use their competence to serve the customer than look for their tea break" at any QF station (and this would hold true for any of the airlines that, through this thread, have been named as the benchmark airlines).

I've not flown AA, IB or S7 so I can't comment.

I have however flown SQ, CX, QF, VA and DL, to/from/through each of their hubs, and the experience on the ground, in the air, while booking, service delivery/requests has been what I'd expect from a "fantastic" airline.

The only airline that I'd hesitate to book over AI would be DL (and even then the ability to earn FF miles on my program would cause me to lean to DL)

Not at all - my browser has the same issue on the old United website. Most other people's browsers didn't have any problems on that website... Certain browsers view certain websites better than others. A better way to be able to tell if a website is "better" or "worse' is to see how often this issue exists. Since so far our sample size is 2, this isn't a particularly reliable dataset...

Be thankful sir!
Of those airlines, I have only flown DL. And I would pick AI every single time if DL was my other option. It wouldn't even be close... Sometimes DL makes AI's customer service seem like the best in the world...

That's a fair analysis... FWIW, the Jet Airways website also has some staff members with yahoo/gmail email addresses as well, so not quite unique to AI... But yes, very bush league

However, sometimes the mediocrity is what makes AI's website one of my favorites. How many other websites give the kind of detailed info about interline agreements that AI's does? How many supply engineering drawings instead of seat maps? Sure, it's unprofessional and not quite "world class" - however, it makes this avgeek very happy indeed.

Releasing such information might make AI an interesting website to study and analyze. But not to fly. When I fly, I want it to be on an airline that is extremely professionally run and takes care of me.

Why would a normal pax need the former?

Then why are you so proud about it?

PVDtoDEL in almost 10 years of posting and viewing on FT, I have never once chosen to use the "ignore poster" option to mask posts.

Please please do not make me start now, but these constant "AI is the best thing since sliced bread" posts are getting very tiring. Especially when appearing in every second thread on this forum.

Thanks.

Normal pax don't need it.

I like it though, because I'm an aviation geek. The fact that I like it doesn't necessarily mean that everyone else will (and I'd assume they won't).

I'm sorry you feel that way...

I'll take this into account when I post in the future.

Thanks.

So why do you feel that ai.com is a "smashing success"?

For that matter how about Komla's in SIN or BKK ?!

You guys are such FTers that you refer to cities by their airport codes. A newbie would think that those restaurants are actually in the airport, not in the city. :)

Only FTers/regular fliers would know such codes, and so it makes it easier to converse. I now do the same with my wife, for major cities. I use them in my phonebook as well. Its great to be able to do so :). Imagine having to write out the full form of BLR :rolleyes::D the horror.

Nice... so you didn't have to change the entries in your phone book when Bangalore changed to Bengaluru and Calcutta to Kolkata

Compared to what it used to be, AI's website has certainly improved. It still remains rather rudimentary, but does have a lot of little convenient features that are somewhat pleasant surprises.

It's not about to win any design awards anytime soon. However, it is certainly more user-friendly than initial appearance would indicate.

I have found a simple compare with Jet's website shows ai.com to be good in utilitarian terms but poor in aesthetics, whilst jet.com looks much nicer, but is a monumental clusterf**k, not particularly user-friendly and rather more cumbersome to use.

I suppose the English language definition of the word "fact" is very different from whatever it is you're learning.

Or perhaps they don't start teaching word meanings until you reach class 8?

Learning to be a politician?

Here I was, under the impression that once you state something as "being a fact" then you better be stating a provable fact.

If you want to state an opinion, you start of by saying "in my opinion". Now, your opinion may have its roots in other documented or undocumented "facts".

Pretty simple primary school stuff, really.

Nope. "it is a fact" is a common phrase used in American english to state a subjective opinion.

Let me give a simple explanation:
1) A fact can clearly be proven or disproven
2) An opinion is something which cannot be clearly proven or disproven.

Therefore, it is a fact that I have enjoyed my experiences on AI.
It is an opinion to say that AI consistently provides a good experience. I base that opinion off of facts (I and others I know have had good experiences), but it cannot be proven conclusively.

If I say "It is a fact that AI provides good experiences consistently," I am expressing an opinion. The fact that the word "fact" is in the statement is irrelevant - the statement cannot be proven or disproven conclusively, so therefore it is an opinion...

And if you don't mind, I'd like to drop this conversation. It's clearly not going anywhere, and it's just wasting our time.

And THAT is a FACT! :D