Same is the case with me too. I don't fly enough to maintain highest tier on multiple alliances even though I have been at the highest tier of the alliance I belong to. I have to be very careful about which airlines I choose to fly. Unless an airline is a member of the alliance I belong to, I pass over it if I can.

LH and ULH flights, don't benefit from hub and spoke system. In fact hub and spoke system would degrade revenue as well as aircraft utilisation.

do you actually believe there is room for a PIT-AMD or a PIT-BOM flight? SERIOUSLY???

I thought even you would be able to understand the argument. :p
It's not the city pair that's significant, it's the mode. I never said there is room for PIT-AMD or even PIT-BOM. You can pick any city within the range of a nonstop.


The issue isn;t which cities are suitable for ULH, but whethther hub and spoke is better than nonstop. Do you understand?

I understand just fine, and like many others on here am not the biggest fan of your condscending attitude... the debate is been on going between hub and spoke and ULH... Airbus went for the hub and spoke with 380, Boeing the other way the ULR's and the 787's and honestly the debate still hasn't been answered...

So far most ULH flights have proven to be unsuccesful. AI's arent profitable, SQ had to change the config on their transpacs and so on.


AA's DEL-ORD might be considered succesful seasonally - but they have just chosen to drop one flight a week for the summer...

Delta couldn't survive on BOM-JFK and after the NW merger went with flying via AMS...

So given the success rate thus far... what make you think 9W would succeed...

The only true success on ULR flights has been EK and they work a hub and spoke system with ULR's as a part of them rather than isolated ULR sectors...

Why not? 9w sells tickets between NA and Brussels, and considering the competition, they are one of the better choices.

So you want PIT-DEL, PIT-BOM, PIT-AMD, PIT-MAA, PIT-BLR, etc? I don't see that happening.

If you want a hub in DEL, that wouldn't make much sense either because ULH flights are expensive to run (carrying all that fuel is expensive). PIT-DEL-MAA would be much more expensive than PIT-BRU-MAA.

finally....i've been waiting for jet to introduce non-stop flights between delhi & ny for as long as i can remember....

Does 9W have 5th freedom rights? As far as I know it does not. 9W can fly pax between a European city and an Indian city via BRU, as well as between a U.S. city and an Indian city via BRU. But NOT between BRU or any other european city and North America, without fflying them through. Get your facts right please.

Geez. Another one of those. :rolleyes: I did not say I want PIT-DEL, nor PIT-BOM nor PIT-AMD.
Did you not read that I just picked a city to illustrate the contrast between a UScity-EWR-BRU-BOM/Delhi-IndianCity and UScity-DEL/BOM-IndianCity. You guys get hung up in the city names instead of following the argument. This, even after I stated that the city pair isn;t the issue, but that the issue is ULH vs hub and spoke with a hub in a foreign city.

If you don;t understand the argument, don;t blame me. As for Delta not being able to work the nonstop to India, it's Delta's fault for shifting it from JFK-BOM to ATL-BOM. Delta is unable to shake off it's southern roots and provincial thinking. People don't like transiting through ATL even on U.S. domestic flights. All non-stops between the U.S. and India are doing well. Four stops to travel from a North American city to an Indian city is only for mileage runners.

Yes, ULH with a hub is what's needed, with a hub in India, not in Europe. An Indian airline must be able to connect major Indian cities with major destinations nonstop. Otherwise they will continue to lose to the likes of EK and SQ.

Actually, it's your facts that are not right. 9W DOES have 5th freedom rights from BRU to the US, as well as from other European cities, via BRU, to the US. Just as an example, they do serve LYS-BRU-NYC, with LYS-BRU operated (as a codeshare), by SN.

srirams's facts do seem to be in good order. I just bought 9W tickets from EWR to BRU (and given your post above tried to buy BRU to EWR and it priced out fine as well)!!

Also, given you seem to be quite knowledgeable about 5th freedom rights etc., appreciate if you could clarify whether those rights are for airlines of a whole country, or whether they are by specific airlines? Your question about "9W" having 5th freedom rights makes me think your position is that they are by airline (??). However, Wikipedia seems to not have its facts straight, and defines them as "granting a right to a country's airline(s)". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedoms_of_the_air

There are not enough passengers than want to fly between a single US city and a single India city who are also willing to pay extra for a non-stop to profitably fly very many ultra-longhauls. It costs much more (because of fuel) to fly ORD-HYD non-stop rather than ORD-BRU-HYD.

3 steps to tranform 9W from the fringe stuggling airline they are now to a profitable world class leader:

In less than 2 years time, complete:

1) Join Star Alliance

2) Codeshare 100% of SN's flight network.

http://i.imgur.com/TsYCj.png

3) Fly their own planes (and ask to SN codeshare) the top 20 US airports to/from the top 10 India airports.

Map

http://i.imgur.com/ozT5S.png

If Star Alliance will not agree to #1; go ahead with steps #2 and #3 anyway - plan should still work.

The above plan provides one-stop service between 200 city pairs on 9W metal and more than 1000 city pairs when you combine the SN and proposed 9W networks.

Do the math.

Doubt that is possible.

Yes, as someone else pointed out. SN also has pretty good connections to Africa some of which feed into 9W. Where are you getting your "facts"?

:rolleyes: and who is talking about US city - EWR - BRU - India? I am talking about US - BRU - India.

Perhaps it might help if you gave us what your definition of nonstop is? How do you envision "nonstops" working from a city like, say, MAA?

Get your facts in order - 9W has been flying Pax between BRU and the US/CANADA since they it launched the hub and has full 5th freedom rights to do so - in fact they were invited by the government of Belgium to hub out of BRU - Again, get over yourself - you don't have all the information or facts, stop walking around with a halo on your head pretending like you know it all.



Actually you are another one of those - The point everyone is trying to make which you can't seem to get is exactly the reason for LH's success in the Indian market - 1 stop flights from most major US cities to most major Indian cities - US CITY - FRA - INDIA. 9W had a plan of creating that with BRU and due to the rececssion it slowed down... my original point was instead of trying to reinvent the wheel with a non-stop service, why don't they stick to plan.