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-   -   How is Indigo? (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/india-based-airlines/1123266-how-indigo.html)

GuyFromBOM Jun 25, 2014 9:30 pm


Originally Posted by ashishp (Post 23097477)
Actually Sale-and-Lease back is done by ALL domestic carriers, Air India included. Infact Jet was the pioneer of this and was taken to the next level by KFA after the Deccan acquisition. The difference was that while most carriers were striking these deals post delivery, Indigo had these deals executed before the metal for the plane was even cut! But now even Air India is doing the exact same thing.

Sale and Lease Back is a double edged sword-It gets you immediate cash, but at the cost of increased cash outflow down the line. Some call it "dressing the account books". Maybe some experts here can chime in!

The one thing that Indigo does that others havent caught on (yet?) - is the whole rookie pilots pay to get hours scheme. That ones still a new idea here in India. However is that enough to keep them profitable - all other things being equal?

Here is a link to an article that evaluates their FY13 results and also gives an in-depth analysis of how 6E makes profit:

ET - The secret of Indigo’s consistent profits

ashishp Jun 25, 2014 9:34 pm


Originally Posted by GuyFromBOM (Post 23097581)
Here is a link to an article that evaluates their FY13 results and also gives an in-depth analysis of how 6E makes profit:

ET - The secret of Indigo’s consistent profits

Shall reserve comment on stories appearing in rival magazines!

But one must remember similar stories about KingFisher back in 2007! From the same set of media people if i may add! :)

d3vski Jun 27, 2014 9:17 am


Originally Posted by ashishp (Post 23097477)
The one thing that Indigo does that others havent caught on (yet?) - is the whole rookie pilots pay to get hours scam. That ones still a new idea here in India. However is that enough to keep them profitable - all other things being equal?

Minor correction above.

Who cares about quality when you got a never ending supply of rich kids who think being a pilot is next "in!" thing to do.

quarryking Oct 15, 2014 8:56 pm

Let's buy a few more planes.... [Indigo]
 
Another massive order from Indigo from the looks of it..

http://www.thehindu.com/business/Ind...cle6502949.ece

At this rate in a couple of years, Indigo would be landing it's A320's onto pretty much every airfield in the country..!!

arakhanna Oct 16, 2014 12:12 am

Given the discounts that Indigo must be receiving , am sure they will sell the planes and book profit. The sales leaseback model works on the huge discount that they receive.

Indigo will have exited all current aircraft(99+) by then as the lease periods would be over for the same.

oliver2002 Oct 16, 2014 2:25 am

As discussed here: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/india...cs-primer.html

Indigo works on the principle of leaseback and churns aircraft every 3 years, so this new order is just replacement of the aircraft purchased in the last batch.

Why they asked to buy widebodies I don't know. I suppose the A330regional (made/assembled in China) probably will make sense in 5-10 years between the metros.

ashishp Oct 16, 2014 9:16 pm

In India atleast there is another model - burn cash (most of it black money) to buy out market share. Spend aggresively on PR to market yourself as a "happening" airline either in the premium space or as Indigo is doing - as a no frills, no nonsense airline! Once the promoters have made a killing at the IPO, who cares where the airline goes after that? Let airline die out - start another one and lather-rinse-repeat! Any of this sound familiar?

6E have a IPO coming in the next year and so need to stay in the news. Their PR team has been working overtime with journos on the aviation beat flogging every tid-bit.

Eerily similar to what I saw in Kingfisher years back! Indeed, many of the guys are the same! :)

tirajat Oct 16, 2014 9:59 pm


Originally Posted by ashishp (Post 23690166)
In India atleast there is another model - burn cash (most of it black money) to buy out market share. Spend aggresively on PR to market yourself as a "happening" airline either in the premium space or as Indigo is doing - as a no frills, no nonsense airline! Once the promoters have made a killing at the IPO, who cares where the airline goes after that? Let airline die out - start another one and lather-rinse-repeat! Any of this sound familiar?

6E have a IPO coming in the next year and so need to stay in the news. Their PR team has been working overtime with journos on the aviation beat flogging every tid-bit.

Eerily similar to what I saw in Kingfisher years back! Indeed, many of the guys are the same! :)

+1

I have read a bunch of reports on these lines.. IPO is the major driver here.

Keyser Oct 17, 2014 4:43 am


Originally Posted by ashishp (Post 23690166)
6E have a IPO coming in the next year and so need to stay in the news. Their PR team has been working overtime with journos on the aviation beat flogging every tid-bit.


Originally Posted by tirajat (Post 23690295)
I have read a bunch of reports on these lines.. IPO is the major driver here.

i've heard the same thing & they have been very good with their pr....i love the way they spin the whole 'on time arrival' bit....just yesterday i was on an indigo flight that had a flying time of a hour & 40 minutes but indigo had a half hour buffer so the flight took off half an hour late but still landed on time....every airline does this but indigo pr makes it out to be a big deal....

ashishp May 13, 2015 10:45 pm


Originally Posted by Keyser (Post 23691199)
i've heard the same thing & they have been very good with their pr....i love the way they spin the whole 'on time arrival' bit....just yesterday i was on an indigo flight that had a flying time of a hour & 40 minutes but indigo had a half hour buffer so the flight took off half an hour late but still landed on time....every airline does this but indigo pr makes it out to be a big deal....

Unfortunately the aggressive capacity dumping by Indigo means Air India and Jet have both been forced into a defensive position and so have withdrawn from key markets. As an example, Jet has withdrawn completely from NAG altogether, while AI is down to a single flight to DEL! Compared to 6x daily NAG-DEL on Indigo!

Was forced to take a 6E flight NAG-DEL some days back just because they were the only option back to DEL in the evenings. The flight was delayed by 6+ hours! However I am told it doesnt count as a delay when they file with the DGCA. Exploiting a loophole ofcourse! If you inform passengers upto 2 hours in advance of flight time, it isnt considered a delay but a "reschedule". I received a text from the airline just as i was pulling into the NAG airport approx 2 hours before my flight scheduled at 1900. The flight was "rescheduled" in 1 hour increments till it finally took off at 0130 am! We never received any refreshments whatsoever though the staff did keep us updated. The evening Air India flight to BOM was delayed by 40 mins - and their pax were treated to a buffet in the airport restaurant upstairs!

And get this: The 6E aircraft was operating BOM-NAG-DEL with a 1700 hours departure ex-BOM. I talked to the cabin crew inflight and they said they had known about the rescheduling of their BOM departure to 2345 hours at 1pm itself and so had waited at the crew hotel. Which means Indigo fellas deliberately withheld info from passengers?!

Earlier people had a choice. Now its Indigo or no go! Earlier AI and Jet both had morning and evening departures both ways between NAG and BOM/DEL. AI had a morning A319 doing BOM-NAG-DEL and an A320 doing DEL-NAG-BOM, with both aircraft doing the reverse routing in the evening. Jet had the exact same schedule with 737-400 and 737-800 respectively.

Now AI is down to a single A320 doing DEL-NAG-RPR-DEL in the morning and a BOM-NAG-BOM in the evening! Jet has withdrawn completely. :( Meanwhile Indigo is upto 6x daily to DEL. Relentless capacity dumping!

quarryking May 13, 2015 11:26 pm


Originally Posted by ashishp (Post 24812907)
Unfortunately the aggressive capacity dumping by Indigo means Air India and Jet have both been forced into a defensive position and so have withdrawn from key markets. As an example, Jet has withdrawn completely from NAG altogether, while AI is down to a single flight to DEL! Compared to 6x daily NAG-DEL on Indigo!

Was forced to take a 6E flight NAG-DEL some days back just because they were the only option back to DEL in the evenings. The flight was delayed by 6+ hours! However I am told it doesnt count as a delay when they file with the DGCA. Exploiting a loophole ofcourse! If you inform passengers upto 2 hours in advance of flight time, it isnt considered a delay but a "reschedule". I received a text from the airline just as i was pulling into the NAG airport approx 2 hours before my flight scheduled at 1900. The flight was "rescheduled" in 1 hour increments till it finally took off at 0130 am! We never received any refreshments whatsoever though the staff did keep us updated. The evening Air India flight to BOM was delayed by 40 mins - and their pax were treated to a buffet in the airport restaurant upstairs!

And get this: The 6E aircraft was operating BOM-NAG-DEL with a 1700 hours departure ex-BOM. I talked to the cabin crew inflight and they said they had known about the rescheduling of their BOM departure to 2345 hours at 1pm itself and so had waited at the crew hotel. Which means Indigo fellas deliberately withheld info from passengers?!

Earlier people had a choice. Now its Indigo or no go! Earlier AI and Jet both had morning and evening departures both ways between NAG and BOM/DEL. AI had a morning A319 doing BOM-NAG-DEL and an A320 doing DEL-NAG-BOM, with both aircraft doing the reverse routing in the evening. Jet had the exact same schedule with 737-400 and 737-800 respectively.

Now AI is down to a single A320 doing DEL-NAG-RPR-DEL in the morning and a BOM-NAG-BOM in the evening! Jet has withdrawn completely. :( Meanwhile Indigo is upto 6x daily to DEL. Relentless capacity dumping!

9W these days functions more as a feeder service for Etihad. For example, out of MAA, they've canned direct flights to BRU, CMB, HYD, COK, TRV, CCU & VTZ...!! The only flights out of MAA i've seen them increase capacity to is probably TRZ & IXM...!!

quarryking Jun 23, 2015 1:21 am

The numbers seem to get better and better for the 6E folks..!!

http://www.livemint.com/Companies/Rf...Air-India.html

quarryking Jul 30, 2015 1:00 am

Spicejet now...
 
From not having money to settle In flight catering to upload food for regular scheduled flights only a few months back, to now wanting to buy 100 new planes...makes you wonder...!!

http://profit.ndtv.com/news/corporat...t-deal-1201673

GuyFromBOM Jul 31, 2015 7:22 am


Originally Posted by quarryking (Post 25194304)
From not having money to settle In flight catering to upload food for regular scheduled flights only a few months back, to now wanting to buy 100 new planes...makes you wonder...!!

http://profit.ndtv.com/news/corporat...t-deal-1201673

Didn't they have ~50 B737MAX on order?

quarryking Jul 31, 2015 7:48 am


Originally Posted by GuyFromBOM (Post 25200795)
Didn't they have ~50 B737MAX on order?

Yes they did if i remember right...

deovrat Aug 17, 2015 1:24 am

Indigo orders 250 A320Neo from Airbus
 
Indigo has announced that it has placed a further order for 250 A320Neo aircraft from Airbus.
This is in addition to its previous orders of 280 A320CEOs + A320Neos (of which more than 100 A320CEOs have been delivered).

This is Airbus's biggest order by far in terms of number of aircraft ordered in a single deal.

Source: http://www.airbus.com/presscentre/pr...0neo-aircraft/

Keyser Aug 17, 2015 1:59 am

that is a lot of planes....i wonder how many of them they will use themselves....

deovrat Aug 17, 2015 5:00 am

Till now, they haven't leased any of their planes to other airlines; though that might change.

One theory is that they are brutal in discarding aircraft after 5-6 years. Rumour has it that they just get aircraft out the door before a scheduled (and very expensive) D-check comes up after 6 years.
Due to this, even if more than 105 aircraft are delivered to them so far, they only have about 96 in the current fleet.

So chances are that the first aircraft to be delivered in this new order won't be around to see the last aircraft. ;)

oliver2002 Aug 17, 2015 5:15 am

Not brutal, but very wise. They actually do a sale and lease back the moment the aircraft joins the fleet and the lease term is for 3 years only. This way you need minimal cash on hand too. Not that it matters in the low interest environment... and BTW, they have already disposed of 17 aircraft so far: http://www.airfleets.net/flottecie/I...story-a320.htm

deovrat Aug 17, 2015 6:11 am


Originally Posted by oliver2002 (Post 25282118)
Not brutal, but very wise. They actually do a sale and lease back the moment the aircraft joins the fleet and the lease term is for 3 years only. This way you need minimal cash on hand too. Not that it matters in the low interest environment... and BTW, they have already disposed of 17 aircraft so far: http://www.airfleets.net/flottecie/I...story-a320.htm

Cheers for the more accurate info :)

678flyer Aug 23, 2015 1:00 am


Originally Posted by oliver2002 (Post 25282118)
Not brutal, but very wise. They actually do a sale and lease back the moment the aircraft joins the fleet and the lease term is for 3 years only. This way you need minimal cash on hand too. Not that it matters in the low interest environment... and BTW, they have already disposed of 17 aircraft so far: http://www.airfleets.net/flottecie/I...story-a320.htm

The last one in the list was with them just a month? Perhaps they didn't want delivery? The one before that from 2008-9 also lasted just 3 months.

knit-in Oct 25, 2017 10:48 am

Indigo: Sleep With Your Wife 😋
 
Came upon this picture on social media of a billboard advertising same day return flights from all metros. Has anyone come across these "sleep with your wife" billboards, while in India?

Pretty funny, IMO :p

knit-in Oct 25, 2017 10:49 am

1 Attachment(s)
Here it is...

HMPS Oct 25, 2017 3:47 pm

Creative.......remains to be seen how Indians take it !

uggboy Oct 25, 2017 5:42 pm

Fascinating strategic Ad.

Cheers & Safe Travels. ^

Keyser Oct 26, 2017 12:51 am


Originally Posted by HMPS (Post 28976838)
Creative.......remains to be seen how Indians take it !

very creative & brilliant in my opinion....i think the average indian would think so too....

fotographer Oct 26, 2017 4:30 am

seen that too, very well done

HMPS Oct 27, 2017 11:37 am


Originally Posted by Keyser (Post 28978436)
very creative & brilliant in my opinion....i think the average indian would think so too....

Wait till the "Netas" (Politicos) get hold of it when they run dry of other erstwhile causes ! They will then claim it is against our culture.....:D

Keyser Oct 27, 2017 11:39 am


Originally Posted by HMPS (Post 28984532)
Wait till the "Netas" (Politicos) get hold of it when they run dry of other erstwhile causes ! They will then claim it is against our culture.....:D

i wouldn't be surprised if this current government did so....

romania2007 Oct 27, 2017 3:52 pm


Originally Posted by Keyser (Post 28984538)
i wouldn't be surprised if this current government did so....

i don't think that the government would have any problem, after all sleeping with your own wife is Indian culture ;).

On the other hand if the ad said sleep with someone else's wife, then it would be huge.

HMPS Oct 27, 2017 8:10 pm


Originally Posted by romania2007 (Post 28985445)
i don't think that the government would have any problem, after all sleeping with your own wife is Indian culture ;).

On the other hand if the ad said sleep with someone else's wife, then it would be huge.

Then you don't know your Politicos !:D
They can twist it to say that since most travelers do not return the same day, you are encouraging them to sleep with some one else's wife !;)

Keyser Oct 28, 2017 12:04 am


Originally Posted by romania2007 (Post 28985445)
i don't think that the government would have any problem, after all sleeping with your own wife is Indian culture ;).

sleeping with your own wife is indian culture but talking about it is not....:p

this government seems to have a problem with everything one does these days....

alphaod Oct 31, 2017 9:09 am

I think "Sleep with your mistress while your wife thinks you're still away" makes more sense.

oliver2002 Feb 18, 2020 5:12 am

Indigo is not going to buy widebodies for their intl ops but manage with A321XLRs instead. Makes sense as it keeps crew training common: https://economictimes.indiatimes.com...w/74183403.cms

Interesting to read in the article: they will have a business class lie flat product.

PiperAtGatesofDawn Feb 18, 2020 5:40 am

All the LCCs are doing this. Another why allow your pax to be comfortable when you can pack them up like sardines for cheap. Bet they will cut down on the toilets on this flight just like they’ve done on the DEL-IST route to make room for the lie flats and some more wafer thin Y seats. DEL-STN... as long as you don’t need to pee.

Also this is another aircraft category where Boeing doesn’t have an answer as yet and Airbus seems to be killing it with the LCCs all over.

oliver2002 May 18, 2022 6:40 am

Wow, Indigo appoints KLM's CEO as a successor to Rono Dutta:

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com...w/91640868.cms

oliver2002 Jun 1, 2022 11:53 pm

Interesting insight on Indigos codeshre policy: https://economictimes.indiatimes.com...w/91926524.cms

PiperAtGatesofDawn Jun 2, 2022 1:42 am


Originally Posted by oliver2002 (Post 34300146)
Interesting insight on Indigos codeshre policy: https://economictimes.indiatimes.com...w/91926524.cms


Indigo has to do 3 things.

1. Let it's staff know about these partnerships.
2. Have better integration in place W.R.T. tickets, PNRs and what nots
3. Explain how they are 6th largest airline in the world.
4. Explain why when profitability is up 12% did the losses increase by almost 50% - can't be all fuel

Both for Vistara and more so for Indigo I think this was an obvious thing to do. Especially given AI doesn't care about *A or growth. And there's no Skyteam or Oneworld domestic partner.

AI could have easily leveraged it's network and govt. clout to partner with any *A airlines landing in India. Especially when Indigo was beginning to threaten its dominance.

oliver2002 Jun 9, 2022 2:38 am

And more codeshares with AA: https://economictimes.indiatimes.com...w/92096958.cms

uastarflyer Jun 21, 2022 8:18 pm

Is this even worth considering for a flight to SIN? Or just pay the SQ “tax” and don’t look back?


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