Iberia's 90,000 point catch - 'the negative balance' on transfers.
Nov 21, 2018, 8:17 am
#76
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: London
Programs: BAEC Gold, HHonors Diamond, Marriott Gold
Posts: 1,546
I can't remember the exact wording and tabs, but there is a form under "personal details" about deleting account with drop down boxes and I selected IB Plus account in one box and Erasure on the other... It then asked me for all details including my passport number and an uploaded image of my passport which I provided. I got an email straight away saying they have received my request and within 12 hours I got the confirmation that they no longer hold any of my details or information.
Nov 28, 2018, 12:10 pm
#78
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 335
This is really not that different from buying something from the IB shopping portal, get the miles, transfer them to BA, return the item, and close down your IB account to avoid clawbacks. This is not the same as exploiting a loophole or an overly generous promo. We all know it's a scam, then hiding the evidence by closing your account, and then hoping that their system isn't smart enough to catch it.
anyway, i'm interested to see what will happen.
Last edited by petey2428; Nov 28, 2018 at 12:17 pm
Nov 28, 2018, 12:41 pm
#79
Ambassador, British Airways; FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Leeds, UK
Programs: BA GGL/CCR, GfL, HH Diamond
Posts: 42,964
I don't understand how this works from a business side. Miles aren't free. IB and BA are in the same group, but financially they don't share profit/losses. When you transfer IB miles to BA, I assume IB has to pay BA something. That's why you're allowed to buy IB miles on groupon and then transfer them to BA. Why would BA let IB keep all the sales from groupon and they get nothing?
This is really not that different from buying something from the IB shopping portal, get the miles, transfer them to BA, return the item, and close down your IB account to avoid clawbacks. This is not the same as exploiting a loophole or an overly generous promo. We all know it's a scam, then hiding the evidence by closing your account, and then hoping that their system isn't smart enough to catch it.
anyway, i'm interested to see what will happen.
This is really not that different from buying something from the IB shopping portal, get the miles, transfer them to BA, return the item, and close down your IB account to avoid clawbacks. This is not the same as exploiting a loophole or an overly generous promo. We all know it's a scam, then hiding the evidence by closing your account, and then hoping that their system isn't smart enough to catch it.
anyway, i'm interested to see what will happen.
As to the profitability or otherwise of the promotion why is that our concern?
Nov 28, 2018, 7:56 pm
#80
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Barcelona, London, on a plane
Programs: BA Silver, TK E+, AA PP, Hyatt Globalist, Marriott LT Plat, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 13,047
The general terms of IB+ make clear that Combining Your Avios is not a redemption. The promo T&Cs pointed clearly to general IB+ T&Cs. Perhaps lazy drafting, but legally valid.
IB+ conceded months ago that it hadn't expressly excluded transferring these Avios to BAEC. But the promo T&Cs weren't changed to say that spending Avios via BAEC now qualified. Therefore, the bonus Avios will likely be expired according to the terms of the promo, with consequences we are waiting to discover...
Nov 28, 2018, 10:25 pm
#82
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Barcelona, London, on a plane
Programs: BA Silver, TK E+, AA PP, Hyatt Globalist, Marriott LT Plat, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 13,047
Which is why you could chase your Avios after they were clearly delayed.
Would you prefer other airlines / hotel chains where their promo terms state that you have to wait 6-8 weeks before you can claim, even though you know the bonus is supposed to arrive almost immediately?
Would you prefer other airlines / hotel chains where their promo terms state that you have to wait 6-8 weeks before you can claim, even though you know the bonus is supposed to arrive almost immediately?
Nov 29, 2018, 12:37 am
#83
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 2,379
Not sure why so many people are still banging on about this, complaining "I wasn't told I couldn't spend them this way". It's as if people have suddenly decided that IB+ and BAEC are exactly the same thing, despite clearly operating separately. (status qualification isn't combined, different award charts, different earning rates for the exact same partner, etc.)
The general terms of IB+ make clear that Combining Your Avios is not a redemption. The promo T&Cs pointed clearly to general IB+ T&Cs. Perhaps lazy drafting, but legally valid.
IB+ conceded months ago that it hadn't expressly excluded transferring these Avios to BAEC. But the promo T&Cs weren't changed to say that spending Avios via BAEC now qualified. Therefore, the bonus Avios will likely be expired according to the terms of the promo, with consequences we are waiting to discover...
The general terms of IB+ make clear that Combining Your Avios is not a redemption. The promo T&Cs pointed clearly to general IB+ T&Cs. Perhaps lazy drafting, but legally valid.
IB+ conceded months ago that it hadn't expressly excluded transferring these Avios to BAEC. But the promo T&Cs weren't changed to say that spending Avios via BAEC now qualified. Therefore, the bonus Avios will likely be expired according to the terms of the promo, with consequences we are waiting to discover...
While a transfer to BA doesn't count as a redemption, transferring and then spending them does. It says they must be redeemed, not redeemed with Iberia.
It's clear that the intention was it should be spent with Iberia, and I'll certainly go along with the suggestion that those of us who transferred are taking advantage of them, but I can't see how their terms can be enforced legally. We'll see what happens in a few days though!
Nov 29, 2018, 2:48 am
#84
Join Date: Mar 2016
Programs: BAEC, Ib+, Accor, HHonors
Posts: 609
If you search in the Iberia T&C under how to use Avios there's no reference to BAEC.
Essentially, even though BAEC, Vueling Club, Aer Club, Iberia Plus, Meridiana Club,... use the same currency: they are not the same program. Each program has their own independent T&C and how they work.
Essentially, even though BAEC, Vueling Club, Aer Club, Iberia Plus, Meridiana Club,... use the same currency: they are not the same program. Each program has their own independent T&C and how they work.
Nov 29, 2018, 2:53 am
#85
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Barcelona, London, on a plane
Programs: BA Silver, TK E+, AA PP, Hyatt Globalist, Marriott LT Plat, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 13,047
The terms never said they had to be spent via Iberia (I initially thought they did but someone posted a screenshot ages ago and it doesn't say it).
While a transfer to BA doesn't count as a redemption, transferring and then spending them does. It says they must be redeemed, not redeemed with Iberia.
It's clear that the intention was it should be spent with Iberia, and I'll certainly go along with the suggestion that those of us who transferred are taking advantage of them, but I can't see how their terms can be enforced legally. We'll see what happens in a few days though!
While a transfer to BA doesn't count as a redemption, transferring and then spending them does. It says they must be redeemed, not redeemed with Iberia.
It's clear that the intention was it should be spent with Iberia, and I'll certainly go along with the suggestion that those of us who transferred are taking advantage of them, but I can't see how their terms can be enforced legally. We'll see what happens in a few days though!
Nov 29, 2018, 4:13 am
#86
Join Date: May 2013
Location: MAD
Programs: IB+, BAEC
Posts: 3,106
Just as a curiosity, I was looking through the T&Cs and curiously enough, Iberia doesn't have the right to remove you from the program for any reason. So they can't just take away avios/status as punishment for things like hidden city ticketing or something along those lines.
Nov 29, 2018, 4:26 am
#87
Ambassador, British Airways; FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Leeds, UK
Programs: BA GGL/CCR, GfL, HH Diamond
Posts: 42,964
Just as a curiosity, I was looking through the T&Cs and curiously enough, Iberia doesn't have the right to remove you from the program for any reason. So they can't just take away avios/status as punishment for things like hidden city ticketing or something along those lines.
The Programme reserves the right to recall your card, cancel your account and hold you responsible if you make improper or fraudulent use of the Programme or do not comply with the rules and procedures contained in these General Conditions.
Nov 29, 2018, 4:35 am
#88
Join Date: May 2013
Location: MAD
Programs: IB+, BAEC
Posts: 3,106
You're right. I think I just missed it as the last clause in the longest section.
Nov 29, 2018, 5:22 am
#89
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Edinburgh
Posts: 246
In many respects I wish I had never heard of this promotion as Iberia are by far and away the worst company to deal with. After three months of waiting for a refund (and many telephone calls) I finally had to initiate a CC chargeback which has now been granted. I am now trying to search for reward availability and the site is a complete nightmare - I am now being asked to complete a security caption after every single search - is there any other way of searching for business class availability over a month because when I search on an individual date I can only scroll through 7 days after which I then have to redo the search. I am looking to fly MAD-MIA in business class.
Nov 29, 2018, 5:24 am
#90
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 7,904
Which is why you could chase your Avios after they were clearly delayed.
Would you prefer other airlines / hotel chains where their promo terms state that you have to wait 6-8 weeks before you can claim, even though you know the bonus is supposed to arrive almost immediately?
Would you prefer other airlines / hotel chains where their promo terms state that you have to wait 6-8 weeks before you can claim, even though you know the bonus is supposed to arrive almost immediately?