Decline of GP vs. HHonors
 

I've certainly been a fan of Gold Passport since I learned about it in late 2002. I've maintained Diamond status ever since.

But if there's no FFN anymore, I have to reconsider. Given current HHonors promotions (many based on credit card tie-ins of which Hyatt has none right now), fewer Hilton stays and dollar spend are necessary to score the average free night than at Hyatt, assuming Diamond status in both programs. For $100 stays, I've averaged about 5,500 HHonors points per stay recently (including conversion of air/Amtrak miles back to HHonors points). At that earn rate, a free night at an average HHonors property requires just five paid nights. By contrast, eight $100 Hyatt nights are necessary for an average 11,000 GP point award night, assuming one-night stays and average 750 points earned per night from GP Offers Around the World bonuses (50% chance of a G1 or G2 bonus at a given property).

But wait, there's more. Hyatt doesn't provide elite tier credit for stays at Hawthorn and AmeriSuites, or for award stays at Hyatt. HHonors provides tier credit across all brands including Hampton and HGI, and credit for award stays. Ten times as many properties offer tier credit in the HHonors program, at all price ranges.

OK, Hyatt does provide its Diamonds with a quality welcome amenity even in North America, unlike most HHonors properties. And the average Hyatt property is somewhat more upscale. But that only offsets the inconvenience of dealing with so few properties, or Hyatt's complete absence in some markets.

So unless something positive breaks from the GP program, I will probably shift more into HHonors and consider SPG as well. I hate to do it, but ultimately it's a dollars and sense thing.

Are you converting miles from another program?

I guess it just depends on how your staying patterns are.

I'd love to give all my business to Hyatt, but they are rarely where I am, so Hilton gets the lions share of my (admittedly paltry - I don't travel on business) stays. Hyatt's provide a more superiorly uniform service level then Hilton's do (one reason I like Marriott's, but MRewards is useless to someone like me), so I prefer Hyatt for my "full service" stays and use HGI's for everything else.

FFN is a wonderful program, and I admit Hyatt gets the stays out of me they do (usually 5-10) a year to generate them (I use the points to secure the dates I want, then earn FFNs and convert). If Hyatt discontinues FFNs, I admit I will discontinue using them for the most part (I have Platinum locked in till 2007) since I have enough points to reserve properties I desire outright and would rather shift my stay pattern to Hilton to generate all the points I can since their redemption levels are much higher then Hyatt.

I don't think there is a decline in quality of Gold Passport.

There has been no official announcements that there will not be another FFN promotion. FFN may still startup again.

I don't think Hyatt needs to constantly offer this promotion the entire year.

Since being comped to diamond from hh gold a little over 2 years ago, I have been thrilled with the GP program. They have hotels where I like to travel and I've been treated very well by them. FFN was icing on the cake.

However, I did the math a while ago, and between the upgrades & the RC access, it pays to do whatever I can to make diamond again - moreso with FFNs. We'd pay for the rooms we're being upgraded to anyway, so in some cases, we're simply prepaying our vacations and getting RC access as a bonus.

I am disappointed that no FFN earning period has been announced. I was actually planning some weekend getaways specifically to help me get a bit closer to diamond for 2006. Those trips may very well not take place without FFNs. I may do one of them, but the 2 or 3 are out of the question. I'll use Hyatt when I can for business, and will continue to use my local cheapie Hyatt to do mattress runs.

I'm still hoping for a summer FFN earning period.

So you're getting 55 HHonors points per Dollar? How is that possible?

What is an average HHonors property? Cat 3 at 25k points?

Well, I think the OP has the following for a $100 stay....

1. 10 points/$ = 1000
2. Diamond bonus 50% = 500
3. HH Amex booking bonus = 500
4. HH Amex earning on $100 at 5 points/$ = 500
5. Double Dip (500) miles convert back at 1:2 = 1000

Giving a toal of 3500......., unless there's double base offer, which will up the figure to 4500, but still is 1000 short of the 5500 the OP claims.....Probably he's on a Triple Base Points offer (targeted for select Diamond members, I chose the 3/5/7 stay for a free night instead), which will bring the figure to 5500 as he claims......but keep in mind, unlike Hyatt's promotions, HH promotions are targeted, and NOT ALL DIAMOND are targeted!!!

I'm a Hilton person as of late due to travel location (San Jose, using Hilton Santa Clara rather than Hyatt SJC...... NYC, using Millenium Hilton rather than Grand Hyatt NY)...both are no brainers where the winner is.....

Still, I find GP offering great value, especially coupled with G2/G3 and the FFN, is the determining factor!!

NB: Hilton AMEX has recently been augmented to improve earning options.....so every booking/stay using the card has a 500 bonus for online booking, and 5 points/$ on spending......giving Diamonds basically a 20 points (10 base, 5 point diamond bonus, 5 point AMEX earning)/$ plus 500 points on every stay! PLUS, with Double Dip, my partner is VS, which HH gives 1000 miles, coupled with 1000 miles per car rental.....a UC ticket SFO-LHR is a mere 80K.....the ticket will be mine after about 6 months!! :)

Again, I agree with Tummy on both of his posts.

There is no decline in the quality of Gold Passport and there certainly has been no official or definitive word that there will be no FFN promotion this summer, let alone the rest of this year, or ever again!!!

Moreover, I, too, am mystified as to how EXPLORE realized an average of 5,500 HHonors points per averge stay.

Now, Explore qualified his statement as to his earning those points recently, so I may be unaware of any of the promotions that he may be privy to, but here goes:

Based upon 10 stays with an avg. $ value of $100 per stay, my math indicates that he should receive about 3,000 HHonors points per stay:

1). $100 X 10 stays = $1,000 X 10HHonors points (per $ spent) = 10,000 HHonors points;

2). A Diamond bonus of 50% in points for $$ spent = 5,000 HHonors points;

3). Airline miles of 500 miles per stay X 10 stays = 5,000 FF miles = 10,000 HHonors points;

4). Using the HHonors AMEX card for each stay yields an additional 5 HHonors points X $1,000 = 5,000 HHonors points.

Total = 30,000 HHonors points over 10 stays net = 3,000 HHonors points per stay.

In addition, I quite disagree that Hyatt properties have just a bit of a qualitative edge over most Hilton family hotels -- the degree of luxuriousness is far greater than that.

However, his points about the ease of finding Hyatt propeties, are well taken, although quite well known to us on this board.

I fall more in the camp of Mary2e that if you can make Hyatt Diamond again this year, go for it, as there is much more of an edge to Hyatt's Diamond status and all around quality of their properties, than that of Hiltons.

However, that is not to say that Hilton has not closed the gap, recently.

First, it is now much easier to string together a reward stay at a top tier and worthwhile Hilton property than it was before, if you have the HHonors AMEX card = AXON promotion reward code, where for 125,000 HHonors points you can now stay at a Category 6 property for 4 nights.

I say worthwhile, because Hilton classes the Napa Valley Embassy Suites and the Embassy Suites at Logan airport as belonging to their top tier Category 6 properties. Ridiculous!! However, that class also includes the Hilton Rome Cavalieri, and its top tier London properties = worthwhile.

In addition, Hilton just opened a new hotel in Dubrovnik, Croatia, and has new hotels that should be open in 2006 in Venice, Italy; the island of Sicily; an eco-resort in the Brazilian Amazon Basin, to name but a few, whereas many of Hyatt's new builds are in China, or the Asia-Pacific region. :td:

Although Hilton may not be in a class with Hyatt right now, 2006 and beyond will provide a much more interesting choice for my loyalty and my rewards points going forward. :D

Edited -- Thanks JKC!! Forgot that 500 HHonors online booking bonus with the AMEX card! I agree with you = 3,500 HHonors points per stay, not 5,500 points per stay.

Through 6/30/05, HHonors offered most members triple base points on all stays. That means 35 points per dollar with the Diamond bonus. Using the HHonors AmEx nets another 10 points with the online booking bonus. Converting 500 Amtrak points earned for the stay back to HHonors yields another 1000 points/stay. There you have 55 points/dollar on a $100, one-night stay.

Assuming the triple bonus miles isn't extended past 6/30, my new Hilton AmEx provides 2,500 bonus points per stay for the first 4 stays, plus 10,000 points signup bonus. Added to the other point earnings, that's 6,000 points per $100 stay not including the signup bonus.

HHonors point award requirements vary from 7,500/night (est. 15% of Hamptons) to 40,000/night (the premier properties). I figure 27,500 is average.

Treatment and Redemption
 

Having been Diamond in both programs, I never felt there was a comparison between the two.

Hyatts seem to go out of their way to at least recognize my status when on property. I've been to numerous Hiltons - even top-level properties, where being a Diamond meant nothing. Hyatt's amenities at least...along with the room upgrades I've received, have made me feel like an elite member. I didn't get that too often with Hilton. Room upgrades were scattered, and even as I diamond I had trouble accessing Honors lounges both in the US and Abroad.

Additionally, having diluted the Gold level program so much, Hilton has little to offer anyone below Diamond Status, outside of the VIP Only rewards. Gold status can be had by a phone call. But that leads to my bigger problem in comparing the two.

It's great to earn points. But if you can't spend them, they're as good as a handful of Pesos in New York City. I have over half a million Hhonors points that I have struggled to use. Granted, I'm trying to use them in popular destinations. But recent examples: Tried last July to redeem a VIP reward for Rome for this past May. Not available. Ended up doing SPG. Tried in April of this year to redeem 7 nights at the Hilton in Sydney for next February. Not available, 10 months out. Park Hyatt Sydney? No problem. Tried to redeem for two award nights in LA in May. Hilton? Could get something in Pasadena...but not even the airport showed availability. Hyatt? 2 nights at the Park Hyatt, easy.

I know there are many who will defend Hhonors like I do Hyatt, so these are just my experiences. I won't use FFN as my basis for judging the program. For me, it's treatment when I do stay there, and availability when I want to use my points.

The OP indicated they received 5500 points per stay by converting miles from another program to points. Hardly an apples to apples comparison.

Also, many of us have been told that FFN, or something very similar would be returning soon. I don't believe anybody was told when it would begin.

Hello Shinbal, I agree that guest treatment and quality of the property are part of the mix. I've recently had good luck getting certificate-free suite upgrades at both Hyatts and Hiltons in North America even on award stays - about 50% of the time a suite has come through. At the Millenium Hilton a spectacular wraparound view suite was provided on an award stay (directly below the Presidential Suite). Also scored a spacious roof-level view suite at the Waldorf on an award. I hadn't stayed at either property before. No matter which hotel company, getting good suites often requires effort. In Hyatt's case, you need to leverage the 800-CHECKIN line as well as front desk manager assistance. However, I'm always amazed that at both Hyatt and Hilton, the Diamond amenity card and/or breakfast coupons are forgotten by the front desk staff perhaps half the time (and that's after I present my Diamond card).

I've rarely had a problem securing award reservations at Hilton as a Diamond. You have to call the Diamond Desk and ask for special treatment. Occasionally the regular rooms are sold out and they can't help you. But space will usually open up in the week before the stay, at which point you can cancel your backup reservation at another property. Recent cases in point: the Hilton Nagoya during the current World Expo, and the brand-new Kuala Lumpur Hilton last November. By contrast, I completely struck out (except on an expensive Passport Plus basis) at the Park Hyatt Carmel, and had to fax the GMs for special treatment to use FFNs at the Park Tokyo and Grand Tokyo.

I came to the same conclusion recently (and faced some skepticism ;) )

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showt...0&page=1&pp=15

It's easier to get cheap Hilton stays for requalification/bonuses (hamptons, casino properties, price guarantee, award stays).
I don't think I'll return to Hyatt without FFN even though I really like their treatment of Diamonds. I really hope FFN returns.

Actually it is a fairly apples to apples comparison. If you stay one night at a Hilton, you get Miles AND Points (15 points per $ spent for a Diamond AS WELL AS 500 miles on most airlines, 1000 miles on some airlines, or 0.5 SWA RR credits). If you credit your miles to the AA program, you can then convert your AA miles back to Hilton points VERY EASILY, just requires quick a phone call request and then a fax (or you can do it online now, but I haven't done it this way yet). This is how it was in the past at least. Supposedly just recently there is now a $25 fee to transfer miles between these programs, so it might not be as worth it anymore. However it is still a very nice option to have and one that can help you rack up HHonors points if you need them.

Nonetheless, my opinion is that GP is HANDS DOWN a better program than HHonors!!!!! I think the real apples to oranges comparison is that fact that the OP says HH is better because he can get 55 pts/$. Yes, right now that it possible (due to your targeted offer and you having a certain credit card), but come 7/1/05 it won't be possible anymore. Yes, for the OP HH is better right now, same case for me as I was targeted by HH for the 3/5/7 promo (almost exactly the same as FFN but run by HH). So what did I do? I shifted my stays over to HH after GP FFN ended (I have 6 HH stays in the past 5 weeks and I need one more by 6/30/05). It's just how the miles + points game is played. You get an offer, you pounce on it. You get a better offer, you jump on that one. An offer goes away, you shift your travel to another chain. That's probably the main reason FT exists, to find miles + points deals. Why do you think everybody here is just itching for the next FFN period to be announced? Because we all love a good promo. But to say that GP is declining vs. HH is slightly misleading. Maybe a better title would have been "Current GP promos not as good as HH promos?"

Hi Gregory, there is no fee to transfer points from Amtrak Guest Rewards back to Hilton. That's where I send my Hilton miles. I also like to maintain an AGR account because train travel is fun now and then.