Got it. Thiese are the double dip miles. The OP did not make that clear.

It is a compelling argument for HH, and I will have to ask if they will comp me to Diamond. Toi me, the ultimate metric is how many free nights you get for your revenue buck.

HH Advantage Over GP.....(For Now and Those Targeted)
 

Let me clarify a few items the OP raised. I find some of them to be very valid reasons to prefer HH to GP given the circumstances now and for the OP only....but such may not be true for all HH/GP members.

I find myself using HH mostly for the past 3 months since the end of the last FFN promotion...due to:

1. HH gave me a fast track to Diamond from Gold with only 10 stays within 3 months.
2. HH ***TARGETED*** me for a stay 3/5/7 get 1/2/3 night free or triple miles on stays through 6/30 or double double dip miles. I chose the 3/5/7 since it's like HH's version of FFN, and CONTRARY to what the OP claims, the promotion was NOT offered to a "majority of members." In fact, most HH Diamonds complained that they were NOT targeted and were quite upset.....which could be found here http://flyertalk.com/forum/showthrea...light=targeted ......quite a long discussion.....
3. HH AMEX Card offered 10K initial bonus PLUS 2.5K for each of the first 4 stays. (NB: one has to be a new cardholder to take advantage of this offer).
4. HH AMEX gives 500 bonus points for EVERY booking online at HH properties....this is an indefinite promotion.
5. HH AMEX gives 5 points/dollar for spending at all HH properties.....

HOWEVER.......

For anyone not receiving 1,2,3, the sacle easily tips toward GP......and even 1,2 alone would prove that GP is the clear winner. One can argue that with 3,4,5 (easily obtained) that HH is more appealing, but the truth is, HH redemption are so high that most if its properties are Category 6 one would need at least 40K to get a decent property. Contrary to Hyatt, which only comes at 15K..... Also, award space is much much harder to find with HH if one is not Diamond....

Mind you, for anyone not owning the Hilton AMEX card the 2.5K stay bonus and 500 points booking bonus can easily be offset by the the G1/G2/G3 if you happen to stay at a property that offers such. Comparing the triple base points to G1/G2/G3 is really apples and oranges......such offer should only be compared to GP's FFN......then let's see where the scale tips...

Like the OP, I'm using HH mostly lately, and I've even requalified for Diamond through April 2007!!! I do that because given the circumstances now HH is better than GP for me..... it's not that the GP program has declined, but rather, given the offers and circumstances, HH has improved its program and earning ability, and I was fortunate enough to be TARGETED for a promotion.......had I not received the targeted promotion, I'd probably won't use HH as much as I had....Coupled with the unfortunate reality that South SF Bay and NYC aren't strong areas for GP......HH is better for me at this moment and under this circumstance. However, I'm going to Japan tomorrow, and guess where I am staying.....yes, the Park Hyatt Tokyo......now would I want to stay at the Hilton??? It's a nice and decent hotel, but comparing two hotels.....both are the top category in each program's award scale (Cat 4 GP, and Cat 6 HH).....for the redemption value of my points I'd easily choose Park Hyatt.....I'm sure it's a no brainer for everyone.....

So, to the OP, no, I strongly disagree that the GP program has declined in any way or form. Rather, the HH program has improved, and for YOUR purposes....and for everyone else who were lucky enough to receive the targeted promotion.......The only improvement I can really say for HH is the improved earning and 500 booking bonus of the HH AMEX card...nothing else.....comparing apples to apples....HH is still inferior to GP....and for HH AMEX card holders the scale is now somewhat even........

Oh, and as for requalification purposes, sure GP is harder to requalify with no dilution of lower end properties...so is that a bad thing?? I can hardly think so.... Rather, I like the exclusivity of this harder to come by requalification of GP.....look at the Diamond amenity......usually those Hyatts give me are MUCH more substantial than whatever Hiltons offered me......and FYI....I've run into so many self-important Diamonds at international Conrads (Singapore) who rudely stressed with every conversation with hotel staff that "....I'm a Diamond......and I'll report this incident....blah blah blah...." and after brief conversation with the gentleman (unintentional, only because I was unfortunate enough to be his next door room neighbor) that he's earned his status and points from his camping out many months at a suburban Detroit area Hampton...... :rolleyes: he's an industrial "manager" of some sort...... :rolleyes: :rolleyes: so just FYI.....thank goodness for the harder elite qualification of GP!!! ^

JKC -- If you see my earlier post, I was, and still am, in agreement with you.

Thanks for the clarification re the 3/5/7 promotion recipients because I did not receive it either and I found it quite interesting that the OP had stated that most HHonors individuals received this sort of thing, or the double points offer -- I received neither and I am a Diamond.


By the way, for you folks who find it difficult to stay 25+ times a year, the OP's statements totally exclude you. As a member of both programs and a HHonors member for better than 20 years, take it from me, if you want free breakfast then HHonors Gold is attainable and for you. However, if you want blackout free award stays, then you had better look elsewhere, because you are S--T when it comes to Hilton. Although Hilton has remedied this somewhat for those who hold a HHonors AMEX -- as I stated above -- those 4 award days better not fall on blackout dates, or you are still SOL.

HHonors had gotten better of late for Diamond and regular members, but as I said before, if one compares both programs, even as a Diamond elite, HHonors still has a way to go, as their marquee properties do not hold a candle to those of Hyatt, and they are far fewer in number to boot.

Yes, you can find less expensive Hilton family properties to stay in, and some are quite nice and new -- Homewood and HGI's are usually fairly new builds, also many Hamptons, as well -- but do you really want to spend 25,000 to 35,000 points per night for many of these properties?? I think not, and that is why you must seek to have all of your award stays take place consecutively -- and unlike Marriott, you cannot have any paid stays interspersed between those free nights so as to make a string of paid and award nights.

So, unless earning HHonors points is as easy as turning on the tap, you might shrink from using your points in such a one off, or IMHO, haphazard manner. In addition, if the above does not give you pause, how about a Category 3 property which goes for 25,000 points, going on Priceline for approx. $40-$45/night?? It happens quite frequently with Hilton properties.

Even the AXON 4 award night reward stay via the HHonors AMEX is really only very good from a point redemption bang for your buck standpoint for the Category 6 hotels (although you can use it at a Category 5 property, the discount is much diminished = 4 nights for 125,000 poinst vs. 140,000 points prior to the AMEX award upgrade), as they normally go for 40,000 points per night, and with the AXON promotion code they can be had for 125,000 HHonors points = a sizeable discount.

In summation, you can earn a great many more points via Hilton, but even for yours truly, they still don't have the breadth of top flight worldwide hotels and resorts to merit your abandoning Hyatt for them. (However, if you love to travel to NYC, then they do have many more options for you -- this is immaterial to me as NYC is at my doorstep.) I will wait until 2006 and 2007 to spend my remaining HHonors points -- after those that I burn this year -- as even their Hawaii properties do not a candle to Kauai, and I consider the Waikoloa on a par with the Maui Hyatt, although Maui is a somewhat more interesting island.

Good points by everyone. I think the key item to note is that the GP program has SUBSTANTIALLY diminished if Hyatt doesn't bring back Faster Free Nights or something similar. If they do bring it back, then there's once again a reason to continue participating in GP on your own dime (as opposed to the business dime). Otherwise, sayonara.........

In addition to all the HHonors bonuses referenced earlier, we need to add points derived from regular credit card charges on both Hilton Amex and Citibank HHonors Visa. For Amex, you now earn 5 points per dollar spent at gas stations, supermarkets, drugstores, restaurants, wireless phone providers, and the Postal Service (3 points for all other purchases). In redemption potential, the 5 HHonors points is equivalent to 2 GP points per dollar spent.

How does Hyatt rate by comparison? They don't have a single affinity card that earns GP points. In fact, it's darned hard to earn GP points except through stays at the main (and expensive) Hyatt brand.

Comments have been made about the high point cost of award stays at average Hiltons, Doubletrees, Hamptons etc. While my analysis in the OP is based on such average stays and does not factor in such deals as AXON and GLON multi-night awards, my own award pattern is to redeem a few full cost one-night awards at premier Category 5/6 Hiltons or Conrads, otherwise I redeem at properties that offer 40%-off PointStretchers, or Cat. 1 and Opportunity properties where the number of points needed is only 7,500 or 10,000. That's similar to the 3,000 GP point redemptions offered by Hyatt at Hawthorn and AmeriSuites, except that at Hilton you earn stay credit and there are a few such properties overseas as well.

Taking account of the above, but not AXON/GLON, I'd like to adjust my rough estimate of the average number of points needed for an HHonors property to 25,000 domestic/28,000 intl., and for Hyatt 9,000 domestic/11,000 intl.

The bottom line is that neither Hyatt nor HHonors offers more than a few really top-end properties. How many Hyatts are in the league of St. Regis, Ritz-Carlton, or Four Seasons? Most Hyatts and Hiltons provide decent service but Hyatt is only slightly superior (often Hyatt Diamond amenities take an hour to arrive, and clerks are forgetful).

Hotels are mainly a place to hang your hat for the night - certainly most of the old Hyatt atrium hotels would fall in that category. The knowledgeable customer does the math - figuring whether the best deal on a given stay is award, paid, or Priceline with no stay credit. They pick the cheapest and most convenient option, capturing any elite bennies that are coming to them. Then they continue as a Diamond elite in those programs that offer the best bang for the buck. And that surely must factor in the ease of earning and redeeming points (at Hilton I'm batting 1000 on redemption), whether all non-Priceline stays are counted as elite-qualifying stays, how many properties there are to choose from, and where they're located.

This old warhorse of an argument has never held any water. I get affinity points for every dollar I spend on a credit card. If you are collecting Hilton points, you are not collecting airline miles or other affinity points at the same time. Also, the fact that Hyatt makes you earn points by putting your rear in the bed means the program is not diluted with admins who earn hundreds of thousands of points on an affinity credit card.

I continue to spend my own money on Hyatts even without FFN. For me it's not just about the points. Consistency of service and elite recognition, are very important to me even on my own dime. Hyatt locations have been the best at this. Regular Hiltons have been poor, Hamptons ok, though not much they can do. SPG has been very poor at consistency, so I never really know what to expect with them.

I agree that there are few top end properties, but Hyatt's mid level properies, I'm thinking Grand Hyatts, are better than the comparable Hilton. I really liked the Grand Tampa and Grand DC for example.

I can't remember the last time I've had a problem with my Diamond amenity or upgrade at domestic properties. I've already re-qualified this year with 56 nights and counting.

For me the best value may not be the best deal or cheapest price. I place a high value on service and consistency. The Gold Passport reps I've had contact with couldn't be any better. I've had mixed results from SPG Plat line, and very poor experiences with HHonors on the regular phone line.

Overall I don't think there could be any argument that would make me believe GP has become or is inferior to other programs. In my experience it has been and continues to be the best. I would like to think it is more than just my luck.

There seems to be a lot of discussion about how Hyatt GP is no good unless they offer a FFN promotion like clockwork. What other program has ever offered a promotion even remotely as generous as FNN. Personally my guess is that there will not be another FFN, and the next big promotion will be in the fall, and it will not be quite a generous as FFN has been. Let’s face it; occupancies are up so Hyatt does not have much incentive to give away rooms at the best properties.

As far the slippage in the program goes I believe there has been some. Especially the RC access at International properties, and the change regarding qualifying rates.