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FlyerTalk Forums (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/index.php)
-   Hyatt | World of Hyatt (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/hyatt-world-hyatt-418/)
-   -   Any Globalists using only points? (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/hyatt-world-hyatt/2076730-any-globalists-using-only-points.html)

craz Apr 24, 2022 9:47 pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by VegasGambler (Post 34193601)
No, I've done the research. I'm not doing it again just to get references for you. You can feel free to read up and get the facts for yourself. Or not. But I'm certainly not doing it for you.



I'm not threatening shutdowns. I'm just pointing out that Chase has done them in the past specifically for "too many credit card applications" (their words, in the shutdown letters, which you would see if you bothered to actually do the research -- there are plenty of photos on the blogs) and so it seems obvious (to me) that if you apply for too many they will shut you down. I don't know (or care) where the line is but if you are earning 1M pts a year from Ink SUBs that's 12 Ink cards a year so it's obvious (to me) that that's going to be over that line.

Again, I don't care how many CCs you or the OP sign up for but it's reckless when someone comes in to troll/brag about this stuff without being very clear about the risks involved (if he is even aware of them; I'm guessing that OP is very new to this hand and is probably not aware)

It's perfectly reasonable to do this as a calculated risk (you might be willing to risk your relationship with Chase for a few million points) but, again, it's reckless to talk about this without being very clear about the risks.

I'm not telling anyone not to do this. People should do their own research and make their own informed decisions.
Relax unless the OP has something up their sleeve its not gonna happen every year at least to how they pulled it off this year or last year. Chase isnt gonna open up 8 CCs for the OP+ every year = no sign up bonuses. And could be closing all the Inks and then reapplying in 2 yrs will send a red flag up or maybe not. So one can still MS their way to Gaobalist by charging on The Hyatt CC but you not gonna earn 1M pts

Now if the OP has legit businesses with different tax #s then Chase will probably open up the CCs, but not if a personal SS# is being used.Still a nice years haul but being able to repeat it every year or every other year probably will be the problem

ElevatorEnthusiast Apr 24, 2022 10:05 pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by VegasGambler (Post 34193601)
No, I've done the research. I'm not doing it again just to get references for you. You can feel free to read up and get the facts for yourself. Or not. But I'm certainly not doing it for you.



I'm not threatening shutdowns. I'm just pointing out that Chase has done them in the past specifically for "too many credit card applications" (their words, in the shutdown letters, which you would see if you bothered to actually do the research -- there are plenty of photos on the blogs) and so it seems obvious (to me) that if you apply for too many they will shut you down. I don't know (or care) where the line is but if you are earning 1M pts a year from Ink SUBs that's 12 Ink cards a year so it's obvious (to me) that that's going to be over that line.

Again, I don't care how many CCs you or the OP sign up for but it's reckless when someone comes in to troll/brag about this stuff without being very clear about the risks involved (if he is even aware of them; I'm guessing that OP is very new to this hand and is probably not aware)

It's perfectly reasonable to do this as a calculated risk (you might be willing to risk your relationship with Chase for a few million points) but, again, it's reckless to talk about this without being very clear about the risks.

I'm not telling anyone not to do this. People should do their own research and make their own informed decisions.
I completely agree - the concern for me is that someone with a lot less financial power than OP will see these posts and think this is something they can do without a clear understanding of the risks. 12 Ink cards is ridiculous and will trigger something on Chase's side at some point. No legitimate sole proprietorship requires 12 separate credit cards.

OP will likely be fine regardless of what happens. With that income, they can probably pay cash for their stays anyway (depending on their other financial commitments). However, others who read this forum or find it through a search might not have context of the risks and have a more negative lifelong consequence that could impact their ability to travel to the hotels they want to travel to (points might be their own feasible way to afford aspirational trips).

Dr Jabadski Apr 24, 2022 10:51 pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by VegasGambler (Post 34193601)
… which you would see if you bothered to actually do the research ...
You don’t have any idea of what I do and what I don’t do, please don’t attack my research efforts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Globalist on points (Post 34190450)
…I've been churning cards for 5+ years now. I know the rules, and risks. I know all about the history of Chase shutdowns and other banks for that matter. I signed up for my first Hyatt card back when 5/24 didn't apply to it. I've rarely had to talk to a chase rep about my accounts. I've never stepped foot in a Chase branch. I have 800+ credit, $300k household income, stay around 2/24, and space out my applications to at least 90 days, and I lower my credit limit so that I get auto approved. I am an ideal customer from Chase's perspective.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Globalist on points (Post 34190495)
I disagree about the shutdown risk. I'm not new to this game, I signed up for my first ink card in 2017, and have been slow and steady since then. I've studied the profiles of users that have been shutdown, and they are very different than what I am doing. I am down to 2/24 and stick to 1/90 velocity. I stay under the radar, and still bring in 1 million Hyatt points per year.
Quote:
Originally Posted by VegasGambler (Post 34193601)
…it's reckless when someone comes in to troll/brag about this stuff without being very clear about the risks involved (if he is even aware of them; I'm guessing that OP is very new to this hand and is probably not aware)

… it's reckless to talk about this without being very clear about the risks.

I'm not telling anyone not to do this. People should do their own research and make their own informed decisions.
Unless you believe OP to be a liar, “ … guessing that OP is very new to this hand …” is a complete misrepresentation. OP has made it clear that he or she is not new to this and that he or she understands the risks.

No one is trolling or bragging, it’s inappropriate for you to make that accusation.

What’s actually reckless is posting repetitive warnings on various threads of impending shutdowns for any number of unspecified and unsubstantiated reasons. (Chase applications within 1 biz and 1 personal per person every 90 days are not generally considered to be overly high velocity.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by VegasGambler (Post 34193601)
…I'm not telling anyone not to do this...
Au contraire, that’s exactly what you’ve been doing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VegasGambler (Post 34193601)
… It's perfectly reasonable to do this as a calculated risk … People should do their own research and make their own informed decisions.
Agreed. But when one’s risk tolerance is significantly lower than average, perhaps 2 standard deviations, they shouldn’t try to impose that risk tolerance on other people without explaining that it’s an incredibly low risk approach. If one cannot stand the heat, they should most definitely get out of the kitchen, but they shouldn’t also try to get everyone else out.

CIT85 Apr 25, 2022 12:07 pm
Manufactured Spend, MS, is a term I only learned from reading on FT. I still don't know what people do with MS. I have never even churned CC for sign up bonus. I only applied for CC that I find value in their points in the past 30 years, such as SPG AMEX (before sign up bonus was even offered), Hyatt Chase Visa (2 free night certs) and WoH Chase Visa (60K points bonus), and CSP (80K bonus bonus). I haven't yet transferred any Chase UR points to Hyatt.

I earn WoH Globalist status and points the old fashioned way, by staying at Hyatt hotels and spend on WoH Chase CC.

Globalist on points Apr 25, 2022 1:10 pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by craz (Post 34191848)
I take it this is the 1st time you have done this, how do you repeat it year after year? Or was your plan simply to be a Globalist for 1 year?
I have been signing up for Ink's since 2017, and have opened (and closed) 15 between myself and my spouse using SSNs and EINs. I repeat it year after year by taking a slow and measured approach and operating within the banks own rules. I think it makes sense to keep up re-earning Globalist for at least a couple of more years, but at some point I will step away from Hyatt a little to use some of my points in other programs. I am sitting on 3.5 million points across all my accounts, I just find Chase UR/Hyatt by far the easiest to spend for high value.

I'm sorry if this has come across as bragging. That was not my intention. I was genuinely curious if anyone else was taking the same approach as me to exclusively book high-end resorts on points. It seems that I may be an outlier. I think people that churn cards to the level I do are more likely to cash them out for $, but that takes some of the fun out of it for me.

Globalist on points Apr 25, 2022 1:28 pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by craz (Post 34193637)
Relax unless the OP has something up their sleeve its not gonna happen every year at least to how they pulled it off this year or last year. Chase isnt gonna open up 8 CCs for the OP+ every year = no sign up bonuses. And could be closing all the Inks and then reapplying in 2 yrs will send a red flag up or maybe not.
Nothing up my sleeve, I think I've been very clear about my approach. I space out apps 90+ days, I sign up for no more than 2 business cards per year with Chase per SSN or EIN. Last year it that amounted to 8 total, and for the last 5 years it has ranged from 5 to 9 Chase cards per year, and about the same from other cards. I've signed up for 72 cards in total in the last 5 years, but I follow the banks rules, and think about long-term velocity. I have avoided shutdowns from Chase, Amex, Citi, etc. I've only ever been shutdown by Serve, but that was more MS related.

josephstern Apr 25, 2022 2:07 pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Globalist on points (Post 34195531)
I have been signing up for Ink's since 2017, and have opened (and closed) 15 between myself and my spouse using SSNs and EINs. I repeat it year after year by taking a slow and measured approach and operating within the banks own rules. I think it makes sense to keep up re-earning Globalist for at least a couple of more years, but at some point I will step away from Hyatt a little to use some of my points in other programs. I am sitting on 3.5 million points across all my accounts, I just find Chase UR/Hyatt by far the easiest to spend for high value.

I'm sorry if this has come across as bragging. That was not my intention. I was genuinely curious if anyone else was taking the same approach as me to exclusively book high-end resorts on points. It seems that I may be an outlier. I think people that churn cards to the level I do are more likely to cash them out for $, but that takes some of the fun out of it for me.
I sincerely doubt that anyone else doing this would be willing to say so on a public forum. Most posters would decide that bringing attention to this activity doesn't help its long term prospects.

eponymous_coward Apr 25, 2022 3:35 pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Globalist on points (Post 34195531)
I have been signing up for Ink's since 2017, and have opened (and closed) 15 between myself and my spouse using SSNs and EINs. I repeat it year after year by taking a slow and measured approach and operating within the banks own rules. I think it makes sense to keep up re-earning Globalist for at least a couple of more years, but at some point I will step away from Hyatt a little to use some of my points in other programs. I am sitting on 3.5 million points across all my accounts, I just find Chase UR/Hyatt by far the easiest to spend for high value.

I'm sorry if this has come across as bragging. That was not my intention. I was genuinely curious if anyone else was taking the same approach as me to exclusively book high-end resorts on points. It seems that I may be an outlier. I think people that churn cards to the level I do are more likely to cash them out for $, but that takes some of the fun out of it for me.
It’s pretty mid blowing that Chase has been willing to pay out a large five digit number of dollars to Hyatt for points based on transactions that probably only net them a couple thousand a year in transaction fees, tops.

”We lose money every time we have a great customer like this, maybe we can make it up in volume?”

Seems like a target rich environment for some data analyst to save their bank money every year if they actually scratched the surface for these kinds of customers. All you would need is 5/24 on your own business cards.

Dr Jabadski Apr 25, 2022 3:46 pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by josephstern (Post 34195683)
I sincerely doubt that anyone else doing this would be willing to say so on a public forum. Most posters would decide that bringing attention to this activity doesn't help its long term prospects.
A public forum, such as this one, exists only because of this type of information; it’s the raison d'etre of the forum(s). There are many participants here who post similar information. None of us can know what “most posters” think or decide. The effect(s) on long term prospects is debatable and completely speculative.

craz Apr 25, 2022 3:51 pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Globalist on points (Post 34195575)
Nothing up my sleeve, I think I've been very clear about my approach. I space out apps 90+ days, I sign up for no more than 2 business cards per year with Chase per SSN or EIN. Last year it that amounted to 8 total, and for the last 5 years it has ranged from 5 to 9 Chase cards per year, and about the same from other cards. I've signed up for 72 cards in total in the last 5 years, but I follow the banks rules, and think about long-term velocity. I have avoided shutdowns from Chase, Amex, Citi, etc. I've only ever been shutdown by Serve, but that was more MS related.
How can you say " I sign up for no more than 2 business cards per year with Chase per SSN or EIN. Last year it that amounted to 8 total" do you mean per Q? and even with that Ive had them let me know I cant get the bonus again, so I simply dont get how you get them year after year w/o any problems, yes BCCs. This coming from a person who had to call Chase last week to remove the Increases they gave me on 2 of my CCs w/o me asking for the increase.

But if you truly have it working for you (yes I highly doubt it) great Milk it while you can

fwiw 3.5M pts is kids stuff I have more then that with UR alone

burnerx213 Apr 25, 2022 4:03 pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by craz (Post 34195968)
fwiw 3.5M pts is kids stuff I have more then that with UR alone
i cringe to know how much of this was non-optimal spend at 1-2x

northinsouth Apr 25, 2022 4:17 pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Jabadski (Post 34193717)
Agreed. But when one’s risk tolerance is significantly lower than average, perhaps 2 standard deviations, they shouldn’t try to impose that risk tolerance on other people without explaining that it’s an incredibly low risk approach. If one cannot stand the heat, they should most definitely get out of the kitchen, but they shouldn’t also try to get everyone else out.
It's hard to convey tone in writing, so I mean this question very neutrally: would you say the OP's approach is mod risk, high risk, etc.? Can you explain a little bit why you'd give this assessment?

As I said upthread, I've never intentionally churned anything in my life, and I'm completely ignorant on this issue. But it does seem like there is a lot of folks throwing caution here, but I'd like to hear the other side.

craz Apr 25, 2022 4:18 pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by burnerx213 (Post 34195993)
i cringe to know how much of this was non-optimal spend at 1-2x
I will leave it at I dont know of any CC (not saying there isnt any only I dont know of them if they exist) that will give me anything over 1x for Charity Donations, and its nice to have been Grandfathered into the old INK cards where its $50K a year for office supplies ;-) or 250K in UR pts per card per year

Dr Jabadski Apr 25, 2022 4:22 pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Globalist on points (Post 34195531)
… slow and measured approach and operating within the banks own rules. …
I'm sorry if this has come across as bragging. That was not my intention. …

It seems that I may be an outlier. I think people that churn cards to the level I do are more likely to cash them out for $, but that takes some of the fun out of it for me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Globalist on points (Post 34195575)
Nothing up my sleeve, I think I've been very clear about my approach. I space out apps 90+ days, I sign up for no more than 2 business cards per year with Chase per SSN or EIN. Last year it that amounted to 8 total, and for the last 5 years it has ranged from 5 to 9 Chase cards per year, and about the same from other cards. I've signed up for 72 cards in total in the last 5 years, but I follow the banks rules, and think about long-term velocity. …
(When you write “I've signed up for 72 cards …”, is that you alone or you and another person?)

Presuming those numbers are for 2 people, it’s reasonably aggressive and (obviously) highly lucrative. FWIW, I’m solo with 40 new cards in the last 5 years (just a fact, not bragging). We’re not outliers, there are plenty of others just like us. Not sure that (many) people that churn cards to the level we do cash out for $, I suspect they use miles and points for awards across a range of programs (instead of 1 specific program) and/or save miles and points (so that they’re less concerned about awards that used to cost 57,500 miles now averaging 187,500 miles and would be more difficult to obtain for an earn-and-burn advocate).

Interesting that one author above wrote “12 Ink cards a year” and other authors ran with that to accuse you of bragging and being overly aggressive and unnecessarily risking shutdown. It’s unfortunate that you’ve been subjected to (and chose to defend yourself from) gratuitous attacks from those who are most likely simply envious. It’s sad that those who are excessively concerned about shutdowns use sensationalism tactics. While 2 or 3 flights of stairs can be considered good exercise, no one should have to walk up 12 flights of stairs because someone else is afraid of elevators.

burnerx213 Apr 25, 2022 4:26 pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by craz (Post 34196031)
I will leave it at I dont know of any CC (not saying there isnt any only I dont know of them if they exist) that will give me anything over 1x for Charity Donations, and its nice to have been Grandfathered into the old INK cards where its $50K a year for office supplies ;-) or 250K in UR pts per card per year
well i mean sounds like your rich enough for it not to even matter in the slightest. "1x for charity" lol...


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