Rome Cavalieri will be 70,000 - 80,000 (depending on the month)
Bora Bora will be 95,000
Koh Samui = 95,000

*vomit*

Touche. Marriott did the same damn thing. :td:

SPG and Marriott have both already announced devaluations in the past month or so. Both were milder than this one.

It seems that the industry-wide business model is changing a bit...moving away from the emphasis on loyalty programs and elite benefits. Maybe the brands have concluded that we (the group attracted to such programs) aren't as profitable as once thought.

Actually, SPG is still due for their annual category change soon.
They announced not too long ago, they were going to have one in mid-Feb i believe.

This is my last remaining glimmer of hope that somehow, AXON will survive and its devaluation won't be as bad as the regular redemption.

I dont understand why people are so shocked at this devaluation...

Obviously Hilton had to respond once Marriott announced their horrific changes. They cant let Marriott beat them!

I'm glad order in the world is restored and Hilton has regained their crown.

The move away from Marriott was only due to the gutting of Cat 4 properties and while SPG C+P changes were disappointing, I don't expect any other major programs to increase redemption rates at top properties by almost double.

These changes are more like IHG's changes, just like IHG points are more like HHonors points that Marriott points.

To use the PDF, hit the search button "binoculars" and then type in the Category desired, clicking exact match -- you will pull up what hotels are in what categories.

Also, contrary to what has been stated, all inclusive hotels still seem to exist -- not sure what the rate will be, however.

The Priority Club devaluation is looking a lot better as well.

Maybe they will run another Luckiest Loser promotion. :p

David

YOU ARE MISUNDERSTANDING!!

And, unecessarily worrying readers!!!

What a load of BS. I was just about to book a few revenue stays but that isn't happening any longer. I have 400,000 points on the books right now as a gold... looks like I'll be burning through them. I've got the Hilton AMEX and Citi Visa that I use as my two exclusive credit cards. I'll be shopping for a new card tonight.

This is the kind of stuff that is pushing me towards being loyal to a reseller like Hotels.com or Priceline instead of an actual chain like Hilton. That path doesn't get me status, but that's almost worthless nowadays save for a small handful of properties that give you benefits commensurate with your status level. It also gives you infinite flexibility to book stays at any hotel you want almost anywhere.

Looking to spend a couple of nights in London this Fall, and was planning on either the Hilton Park Lane or Green Park (there are three of us).

Last time I checked there was plenty of availability, so I dithered while deciding.

When I got the email, I quickly hied off to hilton.com. Ugh.

Park Lane - no availability (a room for 2 is still 50K, though).

Green Park - rooms availabile, but "Premium" rate only, 72K+. Since we have to stay somewhere, I bit the bullet and booked it.

Having dumped Marriott, it's now Hilton's turn, and I'm back to Choice (who?) where we've had some very nice vacation stays in Europe at 8-10K/night.

And to think, I'm sitting here waiting for my new Citi HHonors card in the mail.

When I signed up, I though It would put me in line for an AXON award. Now I'll be lucky to get 2 free nights.

Time to shift more spend to the SPG card. Even with 6 points / $ - I think I'd rather have one SPG point.

Me to, the T&C's removed any reference to these last year and I wondered at the time whether VIP GLON's days were numbered. I think it's fair to assume they've gone.

HYATT STATUS + PRICELINE STAY = Perfect World!!!

Trust Me!! :)

Was planning on doing HHonors as part of my AOR..looks like I will skip it now..

Thank you for your response, that certainly makes sense. This was my first use of HHonors rewards and the way I was reading it made these bad changes even worse.

Just downgraded my Hilton Surpass card. The only way I'll consider putting even a dime of spend in the basic AmEx is if they give me more than 3 pts/$. I've been with them for about 10 years now -- and now the card goes in my drawer. Can't even get 6x on the gift card game at CVS anymore.

Honestly, I'm really thinking about moving all my spend to my Fidelity AmEx, getting my 2% cash back, and booking more of my hotels through Priceline/Hotwire. Sure, I've had some bad experiences with those portals, but half the time, I end up at a Hyatt/Starwood/Hilton/Marriott property for 50% of the retail rate. Happened to me twice in one month recently, in Montreal with the Hilton and Toronto with the Hyatt.

What a terrible devaluation. I think some of the rewards were somewhat under-priced like Conrad Maldives, but boy did they shift the pendulum back to the other side.

This I guess increases the value of the Citi Reserve two weekend nights sign-up. Though given the earning level it does not make the one free night at $10k spend that attractive, seems the spend is better placed elsewhere

Just booked my 8 night stay at Conrad Rangali Island in December. Cannot afford this place after the devaluation. :(

So happy I blew almost every last Hilton point I had at Rangali when it was only 40K a night. And we got upgraded to deluxe beach villa for 4 nights and then switched to a spa villa for 4 nights.

I do, fondly and also with a huge sense of anger... because I did book it for 100K, and had to change plans, so I had to cancel. Thought I would just rebook later, and wound up missing the inflation from 100,000 to 175,000+. I was sooo P.O.'ed that was when I went to SPG. Now that I am starting to come back to Hilton, this happens.

The one good thing is HWV is still Cat 7, and points still show 50K. I can't say the same for the Conrad Hong Kong and Tokyo, as they both went from Cat 7 to 9 and 10 respectively; which is outrageously high.

No, but if you can find Greendot @ your grocery store that takes CC, you can still get 5x.


I can only hope against hope that so many HHonors members will be soooo sick of this that they'll just stop booking Hilton brand and go to SPG or Hyatt (presuming they don't destroy their's either). And Hilton will say, oops, a bridge too far and drop some properties back down.

I'm not a fan of the changes either but there is no outrage like many have expressed. We have become so accustomed to getting these freebies that there is a sense of entitlement they last forever. I usually stay off season at good prices so the impact will be less but frankly, when I get a top floor suite at the Dubrovnik Hilton for $120/nt (and many other similar examples), the change in point redemption isn't that big of a deal. It's the treatment, rooms, and EL that get my attention. Points are a plus.

You've got a point, but for aspirational awards, this basically sounds a death knell. My goal is to use my HH points at the Conrad in Tokyo like I did once a few years ago. Can't do that now, so I'm just not motivated to play ball with HH in general. I won't go out of my way to stay with Hilton anymore, much less to put spending on their credit card.

Perfectly timed. Just got my card along with three year extension of my Diamond status. Time to burn points.

Well in "the good ole days" status and points were based on stays. Devaluation only came when they started minting points with credit card use. Now you can get Diamond without spending a night in a Hilton property. What does this tell you about their definition of loyalty. The hotel chains need to decide what business they are in. Yes Marriott last week, Hilton this week and I'm sure SPG and Hyatt will follow. Conrad Hilton must be rolling in his grave, the Hotels he built now care more about what credit card people use.

If there is any, it would be very limited number.

Conrad Hong Kong under AXON is 145K for 4 nights.

Now it is an 80K property 5 nights (the 5th free) would cost 320K (4 x 80K).

It is almost 100% increase. :td: :mad:

With IHG messing with their PCR program I'm shifting that to HH in 2013 but what can you do. That old saying was very true......you can run but you can't hide. Oh well, maybe I'll just try to make more money and stay at all inclusive resorts on vacation instead of playing the points game for 2014 and cut my hotel stays next year. I'll admit things cost more these days but travellers are sure getting taken for granted these days. Why HH (or anyone) wants to remove personal incentives to stay at their establishment is a wonderment. To other comments, true SPG could come out of this smiling it they gouge people less than others.

Earlier today I booked 1 night at Conrad Hong Kong for 50K and 1 night at Conrad Singapore for 40K. I then went to my email looking for the booking confirmation emails. Happened to see the HH email about the change in levels. I am glad I booked before the changes hit and the rush of people trying to burn their points.

Overall not good as I was saving up for 2 nights at Rome Cavalieri currently at 50K now moving to 80K for spring next year.

:mad:Wow. About all I can say without flying into a fit of rage.:mad:

This is all breaking news and I have not read all these pages in the thread yet.


My first thought is the 5th night free is a huge devaluation if that is the replacement for VIP awards.

HHonors elite member GLON awards already were 5th night free with the 20% discount.

VIP Cat 7 award for 5 nights was 200,000 points instead of 250,000 points. That is 5th night free.

Longer stays gave 25% discount.

If I read the change correctly, then an 8 night stay at a category 7 hotel (today 50,000 points/night) that is 300,000 points for an 8-night award (400,000 points with 25% discount) will now cost 350,000 points; an increase of 50,000 points. And if that category 7 hotel has moved to a category 8 and has peak season rates, then it could be 70,000 points per night.

8 night award stay at 70,000 points per night = 560,000 points with 5th night free = 490,000 points.

490,000 points as a Cat 8 peak season with 5th night free.

From 300,000 to 490,000 points for the same hotel six weeks from now.

That is a huge devaluation.

Good point on credit card earning. So if points are devalued due to ease of earning then status should be more valuable for stayers you'd think given they keep the doors open and the brand alive. Add another 50% pts incentive/bonus for people who actually stay=spend on site.

I remember HHonors was the first loyalty program of any kind, that I had status in (Silver, starting in 2001) due to lots of work trips. What a great program it was at the time and I feel like I got tremendous value from it for many years...but that was then and now...not so much.

I could not agree more. Credit cards have gutted the hotel loyalty programs for the average loyalty member through inflation and made some travel bloggers a sh*itload of cash with referral income.

Note to self: extremeley stupid to keep ca. 1 million points in my HH account.

There are some good things and some not so good things about this...

(and I am not going to mention the doubling of luxury properties - this is somewhat irrelevant to my use of hhonors points)

The good things:

5th night free
the low levels of 5 and 10K points (which include Doubletrees and Hamptons - I did not go through the whole list yet.)

For me the biggest issue is the jump of pretty much every single Hampton in the Northeast and Florida that was 12.5K points to 30K points. In the past I made quick and cheap weekend gateways using those 12.5K point Hamptons, but not any more. From what I've seen most of the 10K properties are in the South, Midwest and Southwest.

I guess if someone is still planning on vacationing with points he/she can still do it, but it will be Mexico (lots of cat 1 hotels there) instead of Fiji....

What I'd love to see is some sort of an apples to apples comparison about how many points one $100 stay gets you at Hilton, Marriott, Hyatt, SPG etc and how many $100 bills you need to spend for a free night in the bulk of their properties (I suspect that would be the level 4 30-40K level for Hhonors.) This kind of comparison makes sense. My experience in the past was the Hyatt and SPG points were a beast to accumulate and I cannot remember the last time I stayed at a Marriott...

Unless I see some comparative data (like the one suggested above,) I am taking this with a grain of salt.

Here's the math I just did, and it's going to influence how I use my credit cards going forward. I'd imagine AmEx is a big source of income for Hilton, but I don't think they'll be getting my business any more.

Conrad Tokyo is now 95,000 points I believe? Best available rate including taxes is about 43,000 JPY and prepaid rate is 36,500 JPY (I picked a random date in June). Let's take an average exchange rate of 90 to the dollar. That's $475 for the best available rate and about $405 for the prepaid rate.

95,000 points. That equals about $32,000 in unbonuses credit card spend, or $19,000 in bonused spend. Not that it ever made sense, but I'm not longer even considering my HH AmEx for unbonused spend. I could get $640 back for that $32,000. And even for bonused spend at 5 pts/$ under the new earning structure coming up in May, I'm trading off $380 in cold hard cash at 2% back for a room worth anywhere from $405 to $475, depending on how flexible I am. There's still value to be had from the HH credit card, I suppose, but it's mighty weak.

I've had my Hilton AmEx since '05, so it's staying active to keep my average account age up, but I'm just no longer excited about the program.

Seems perfectly reasonable to me as I value a HHonors point at 1/2 cent. So, some high value or city center properties went up, others actually went down in points.

The key to this game is that you must be diversified in many of the programs and see which has the best point to dollar ratio for a given area.

I would hazard to say that the 2 free weekend nights from the Citi Reserve card just became more valuable, not less.

Redemption always means Reserving. When you make a reservation the points are IMMEDIATELY deducted from your account, hence you redeemed your pts right there right then.

The only hotel program allows you to redeem when not have enough pts in your account is Marriott's.

As bad as the news are, you get the old rate for any booking before midnight of the change over. However if you make any modification on those booked before the new rates become effective, those bookings will then require extra points based on the new chart.

The wordings are very clear to me. I think your confusion stemmed from your misunderstanding on what means Redemption.

Absolutely. Now i need to move some spending there to get their annual free cert.
(Well assuming they don't put limit on those free cert as well ;) )