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Originally Posted by BearX220
(Post 13339922)
In many / most professional services fields I think that's far from customary these days. Even years ago I was assigned to clients that commanded us to find and fly the lowest possible airfare (which meant ATA redeyes connecting through Midway -- aargh) and stay in the hotel where they had a special lowball rate for their vendors (which meant no Hiltons). More recently I've had consults in India for while I've been told business class is out of the question, end of story... and accommodation is, again, under some sweetheart deal. And with car rental tariffs out of control, we have certainly been asked not to rent cars.
Just two weeks ago I was installed at the Fairmont in San Jose, instead of the Hilton right across the street, not because I wanted to be but because my tech-company client had negotiated a great bulk rate for people like me... and what am I going to say? Naah, I prefer to stay at the less-nice place across the street, and bill you nearly twice as much, because I want my Hilton points? Any guesses as to how that would go over... even with this client, which is making billions in quarterly profits? I just don't have the leverage, and even if I did I don't think I'd use it for diplomatic reasons. (Even traveling on my own dime nowadays I price both Hilton and Marriott properties, and if the differential is more than $30 or $40 I go Marriott. The HHonors points aren't worth it. So there's a fundamental failure of HHonors to do the one thing it's built to do, which is to blunt my proclivity to choose a lower price.) Arguing that I'm flying J or not taking the job, or demanding my preferred hotel chain, is unthinkable from a client-relations standpoint. My field is extremely competitive, so dollars count, but more importantly you look like a twit who's focused on personal comfort ahead of client needs. Factor this realpolitik consideration into the discussion. Hhonors seems perfectly fine with losing the individual payer market. Yes, there are far better deals than a bloody Hilton. I can't think of a time I have ever paid my own money to stay at a Hilton for personal travel. Yuck. For the business traveler who has discretion where he stays, HHonors is a better deal most of the time than SPG. HHonors gets me a personal kickback, like a week at the Conrad Maldives, far sooner than SPG. So, I usually choose Hilton, amongst roughly similiarly-priced mass-market hotels (Sheraton, Hilton, Westin, Marriott). |
Originally Posted by Hhonor Gguard
(Post 13339227)
A lot of skeptics out there, eh?
I assume my username just inspired your comment and was not a personal reference. :) Hey, so long as you're here (and I think most of us are glad that you are), you might as well make yourself useful. So-- Care to comment on how your hotel handles the upgrade situation for Golds and Diamonds? Specifically, do you and staff always upgrade these categories when there is availability? (Hilton is evidently changing their promises regarding upgrades; I haven't taken the time to study the changes, so my questions will probably seem dated. Anyhow--.) It's not that I'm especially interested in upgrades. What Hilton does best, IMO, is breakfasts. But a lot of people are interested in upgrades. And for those of us who aren't, some of us still think that if a program promises them, then they should be given if available. It is IMO a fairness issue. IANAL, so I won't call it a contractual issue. I note that you didn't comment on the point that I raised that properties sometimes do not upgrade if the clerk is arbitrarily miffed at a customer. I hope it is not a frequent problem. SFAIK, Hilton has never commented on this issue. Just joshing, as they say. Semi-joshing, to be exact. But anyhow--? I do want to note that I had the best upgrade ever at a Hilton, specifically the Budapest Castle Hilton, a room which had a large picture window overlooking the Chain Bridge--plus access to an executive lounge that was outstanding. I had never understood why Hilton had kept congratulating us on being Gold--we weren't trying to be Gold, and we didn't realize any benefits were attached to the status for a long time--but after we got back from that trip, I read on FT about Hilton Gold benefits, and from then on, we appreciated it. :) ETA: I seem to be taking this thread OT, so let me explain the connection. I appreciate a courteous front desk--though I take it for granted. Most Hiltons get the right balance, not discourteous, not cloyingly friendly, just business-like and pleasant. But if a manager is trying to improve an already courteous demeanor, not everyone would appreciate shmoozing. As I said earlier, some of us just want to get our keys and go to our rooms. But customers might appreciate being upgraded, assuming they are entitled, and assuming upgrades are available--or at least feeling that they were not arbitrarily denied an upgrade. :) |
I have generally received great service at Hilton properties - the OP reflects the quality staff there. Unfortunately I have not stayed much at Hilton the past few years as the Starwood properties have had better promo rates and rewards, not to mention Hyatt FFNs.
The devaluation is troublesome but no more so than the almost annual Starwood "reclassification" process and the Marriott changes that were implemented with "no blackout dates." However the lack of a cash + points option makes the points less useful to occasional travelers like me (not to mention the ridiculous redemption levels for embassy suites and other modest properties). I am glad that others have finally discovered the priceline option. Earlier in the decade, many Hilton properties had unbeatable priceline rates, e.g. $95/night for the Waldorf Astoria NYC. Priceline has almost always been a better option in many cities like NY, SF and San Diego. Ironically I have made less use of priceline over the past two years as I am unable to take even a small chance on a getting a bad property when cramming my family of 4 into a room. Not to mention that rates in many places, e.g. Vegas, have dropped to the point where it makes sense to pay a little more to get elite perks or a certain property. I miss Hilton, and I wish ES had better rates, a 2-room suite is perfect for my needs these days. |
The devaluation is the worst possible thing to do in this economy. It is quite strange when United and American not to mention Hyatt are trying their best to retain customers Hilton does what they can to run them off. I am certainly gone. Just tonight trying to use the last of my points the system goes strange and gives no hotels available in the NYC area for March 8-10. Go figure! So what! Who cares!
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Originally Posted by Hhonor Gguard
(Post 13332408)
A quick disclaimer, as with all of my posts: I'm just a lowly Front Office Manager.
Okay--I was pretty close. An employee. Unfortunately--with the devaluation, Hilton has already stated in no uncertain terms just how much (actually, how little) it values the 130 nights I stayed last year--all while the hotel industry was in its worst slump in recent memory. And that slump is not over. So I'm voting with my feet--and sending most of my business this year elsewhere.... |
Originally Posted by BearX220
(Post 13334909)
Not all of us are on big-time corporate expense accounts. Quite a lot of business travelers are self-employed or work for small companies where every dollar counts these days... or where every unnecessary dollar spent on lodging is a dollar less in your dividend check. For this sizable cohort, overspending on lodging to earn points of much-diminished value as a "personal kickback" is an increasingly indefensible or nonsensical practice.
Originally Posted by hamptoninnsider
(Post 13339595)
Just because someone works in the hotel, doesn't make them a corporate shill. The big brands are mostly run by corporate, most of the smaller are independent franchises. So as an independent hotel, we work for ourselves, not the corporation. In fact, my hotel's biggest competitor is another Hampton down the road. We don't get paid by corporate. We don't get bonuses if the chain or Hilton family makes money. The price to attend the brand conference this year actually increased.
Yes, the devaluation sucks. But we employees do work harder to make customers happy. Many of are customers focus on price and since we're not going crazy lowering prices like our neighbors we have to give better service. And better service does matter, I've seen the online reviews, surveys, letters and even a letter in the newspaper that a guest sent in. I can also say that most guests don't just get a key and go to their room. I have guests who will stand at the guest for 30 min or more talking to the clerks. I have guests who go out to eat and then come back to tell us about it. We have guests bring us food from their dinner. Guests who bring candy each time they stay. At my place, that is the rule, not the exception. |
Hhonor Gguard, thanks for let us know your point of view and I agree with you.
Originally Posted by Prospero
(Post 13333613)
[B]
From my position (as a European HHonors member) I am not perturbed by the changes to redemption rates. I earn my points from a single source - by virtue of stay activity at Hilton family hotels. Yes, the rates for award stays have recently increased but over the past year or so, HHonors has thrown a chunk of bonus miles in my direction by way of thanks for my continued loyalty. So where others see the changes as devaluation, I am inclined to view it as a correction. I accept though, those that earn points principally via their affiliate credit card spend will see things differently. For me, the level of service and quality of product I receive from Hilton still remains the overriding factor in choosing Hilton properties above others. |
Originally Posted by mnredfox
(Post 13344978)
Just see "Up in the Air", Clooney talks openly of buying a more expensive meal only to equate to more points. Unethical, but I doubt this hasn't been done by many corporate travelers.
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There are two aspects to the loyalty program. Points and status benefits. Do most HHonors members choose the Hilton family just for the points, or is it to maintain status too?
The individual hotels can't control the point devaluation but they do have some control over how they treat you based on your status. IMO, the ongoing closings of exec lounges and other cutbacks will do more to strain the loyalty of the best customers. |
Originally Posted by Stripe
(Post 13348845)
There are two aspects to the loyalty program. Points and status benefits. Do most HHonors members choose the Hilton family just for the points, or is it to maintain status too?
The individual hotels can't control the point devaluation but they do have some control over how they treat you based on your status. IMO, the ongoing closings of exec lounges and other cutbacks will do more to strain the loyalty of the best customers. When I started traveling in earnest for my job almost 15 years ago, I started at the bottom tier of all the programs and it took me a couple of years to reach elite and then top elite tiers of some of the travel programs. Once I made top tier, I noticed that things started happening. Upgrades that you were eligible for as a mid-tier (but rarely happened) became commonplace at top tier. Any kind of irregular situation was taken care of immediately in your favor. An otherwise s---hole job of frequent travel became much more tolerable because of the perks. Take those perks away and you will take my business away. |
In my opinion HHonors are still the best rewarding program available. Devaluation was not nice, but still even with the devaluation they are the best bang for the buck.
(All comparisons are made with a mid tier status, Gold VIP, Marriott Gold, and SPG gold) 1- Hilton: To stay for 6 nights in category 7 high season room in an exotic island (e.g. Conrad Maldives, Hilton Bora Bora) you need 225,000 (rooms go for at least 500-600 dollars per night at that time). To collect these points you will have to spend ± 12,850 USD excluding taxes. If you want put the WA into equation as being the most expensive hotels and rewards at Hhonors. Then its 360,000 points and you would have spent 20,500 USD. 2- SPG: Similarly, it would cost you at category 7 around 175,000 points to stay for 6 nights (5th night free package). And to get to these points you would have spent ± 58,000 USD. Rooms are going usually for as well 600 USD or more. 3- Marriott Rewards: to stay in category 8 for 6 nights you will need 175,000 points (super saver and 5th night free package). To collect such points you will need to would have spent AT LEAST 17,500 USD on marriott hotels. Mind you these 17,500 USD has to be spent on hotels earning 10 points per USD. There are many hotels that ear 5 and even 2 points per USD. E.g. Residence Inn is a 5 points per USD. So if you take that into consideration and your stay was a mixture of 5s and 10s with a mean of 7.5, you will need then ±23,000 USD. (thats higher than what is needed for a reward in WA collection). In addition, not all hotels can use the super saver package. so this 175,000 points can be 200,000 in many hotels. Although the marriott maybe the closet to hilton, their hotels are not as nice and they do not have so many hotels in exotic islands like hilton. |
Just a few thoughts...... I'm a Hilton Diamond and a Sheraton Platinum. I've NEVER been upgraded at a Hilton, and have been a diamond for about 6 years. It is very rare that Sheraton doesn't give me an upgrade. Due to the devaluation, when I have a choice between Sheraton and Hilton, I'll always stay at a Sheraton. I will never go out of my way to stay to stay at a Hilton property anymore. Personally, if I got an upgrade or something that recognized me as a Diamond I wouldn't feel se bitter, but I'm treated as a King at Sheraton and just another guest at Hilton.....
The only thing that even keeps me at Hilton is when I am in the middle of Nowhere,USA there is always a Hampton inn...... |
Originally Posted by PDILLM
(Post 13349422)
Just a few thoughts...... I'm a Hilton Diamond and a Sheraton Platinum. I've NEVER been upgraded at a Hilton, and have been a diamond for about 6 years. It is very rare that Sheraton doesn't give me an upgrade. Due to the devaluation, when I have a choice between Sheraton and Hilton, I'll always stay at a Sheraton. I will never go out of my way to stay to stay at a Hilton property anymore. Personally, if I got an upgrade or something that recognized me as a Diamond I wouldn't feel se bitter, but I'm treated as a King at Sheraton and just another guest at Hilton.....
The only thing that even keeps me at Hilton is when I am in the middle of Nowhere,USA there is always a Hampton inn...... |
I've dropped Hilton from stays in 2009 and will not renew as a Diamond. Simply Hyatt are so much more generous when I stay with them that Hilton is a very much poorer second choice.
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Originally Posted by Markie
(Post 13349524)
I've dropped Hilton from stays in 2009 and will not renew as a Diamond. Simply Hyatt are so much more generous when I stay with them that Hilton is a very much poorer second choice.
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