June Inside Flyer Article - Really blew it!
 

Hate to bite the hand here, but I must protest.

Randy, Pam, et al - IMHO you really blew it with the Hilton Hhonors inside look this month.

You reviewed the program as written in the program rules, not as it exists in reality. While you did make brief mention of some of the problems (double dipping a sham, unusable website, etc), you clearly missed the point of the impact of those problems. Hilton was given a relatively high rating, which is a travesty, and a misleading disservice to your readers.

Take some time to read over the posts in this forum, and in the trip report forum - what you'll find is glaring:

1) Hilton uses any excuse to not allow double dipping. The last lame one was that I upgraded my room to Towers (which you can only do from a full business rate) and that "prevented" the computer from allowing the entry of my FF number. This is a much more serious and prevalent problem than the article suggested.

2) "Gold" level is watered down and useless. Just about anyone can ask for it, and it is granted without a request for proof or eligibility. http://talk.flyertalk.com/forum/Foru...ML/000122.html This, of course, has the annoying effect of worsening the situation for true frequent guests. Also, each property seems to have it's own individual policies on seperate check-in, upgrades, late checkout, or totally ignoring the status. It's truly hit or miss. http://talk.flyertalk.com/forum/Foru...ML/000094.html

3) As of July 1st, Hilton will finally give full points at their resort properties. Until then, no matter how much is/was paid, you would receive 500 points. Why is the $1000 I spent at the Las Vegas Hilton or the $800 I spent at the Hilton WDW in April and June still only receiving 500 points, when even Hilton has admitted this is unfair. They should have abolished the unfair limit immediately.

4) Reservations, even confirmed reservations are often "lost" at the property. (Read Catman's post under trip report from just this week http://talk.flyertalk.com/forum/Foru...ML/000105.html .) The desk personnel assume you are lying unless you produce a printout. Here as well, the gold card means nothing to them.

5) You corectly remind readers that conversion of Amex or Diners points to HHonors can be done, and elswhere in the issue, point out that one should take the time to cycle these points through an airline to get full value (1000 miles to 2000 HH points, but 1000 Amex directly becomes only 1300 HH points.) Why do we have to go through the trouble? Why does the inequity still exist? To take advantage of people who don't know better, of course.

I could go on with this, but the basic point remains the same. We all like the HHonors program on paper, and we want to like it, but in real life, the program is in dissaray. The Flyertalkers I have spoken with (on the board and in person) are all begining to avoid the Hilton properties whenever possible and recommend that they be avoided. http://talk.flyertalk.com/forum/Foru...ML/000125.html

Rating the program as it is promised, as opposed to as it is delivered, was a shame.





[This message has been edited by NJDavid (edited 06-17-1999).]

Yes - I always and still read Inside Flyer's articles, with a lot of interesting basic "official" informations (and learning about the official side of ff-programs). Thank you Randy.

No - I don't rely on Inside Flyer's judgments as I did in the beginning - the commentaries on this board are, for me, much more realistic (good and bad) and less shy to tell me the blank truth for my future travel decisions. Thank you Flyertalk-friends.

Yes - I am thankfull for Randy and Inside Flyer for providing/maintaining this board. Thank you Randy.

[This message has been edited by Rudi (edited 06-17-1999).]

David ~ You want to talk about a travesty ... didn't the Double Dip win the Freddie for best promotion this year?

I was actually thinking about that yesterday while thinking about Starwood's excellent 3 free Friday Night promotion. I don't think there is anyway that the Double Dip is a better promotion than several of the Starwood promotions (1,000 Membership Rewards points per stay or 3 free Friday nights after 5 paid nights) or either of the regular Hyatt Promotions (Maximum Miles or Nights after Nights), but the problem is Double Dip is Hilton's only major regular promotion, so all of the "Hilton folks" vote for the Double Dip, while all of the "Starwood folks" will probably vote for one of several different promotions and all of the "Hyatt folks" will vote for Maximum Miles or Nights after Nights. My point is, the Freddie for best promotion should not be awarded to an individual promotion, because that actually favors programs that run less promotions, but should be awarded to the hotel chain running the best set of promotions over the previous year.

Haven't seen the article, but I can tell you that I'm pretty much through with Hilton. For all the reasons stated above and in the linked forums. I WILL stay if the price is right and they will give me a confimed upgrade. But I've been burned far too many times now.

I'm at the point where if price is an object, I'll stay wherever the lowest rate allows decent accomidations (sometimes hilton, usually not). If price is not an object, I'll opt for a luxury or even a Hyatt.

Just like the Dining program from UA, the incompetent management of a frequency program hurts more than not having a frequency program to begin with, in my book.

Personally, I give Hhonors one star (out of four).

Online version of the Inside Flyer article:


http://www.webflyer.com/@flyer/domes...9/insilook.htm

[This message has been edited by NJDavid (edited 06-17-1999).]

The InsideFlyer articles are useful to beginners, but many of us are experts ourselves. I usually read the articles, so they have value otherwise I would not be reading them. But a large number of times I find that my perspective is different.

Most of the times I find that I am not able to use my Tower upgrade certificates. A large number of properties do not have Tower rooms. At the properties that do, I am seldom able to use them. At a recent stay in Minneapolis, I tried to use the confirmed upgrade certificate with a corporate rate (not the general corporate rate, but one associated with a specific corporation). I was told that I could not use it with my rate, even though the certificate says on the back that it can be used with corporate rates (on check in they did give me access to the concierge lounge so it worked out ok). I still have several Hilton upgrade certificates which expired on Dec 31 1998, and I have not been able to use any of my 1999 certificates.

The last time I was able to use the certificates (almost two years ago) I did not have any problem with the double dip, i.e. I got both points and miles.

A couple of weeks ago, I posted a question in the "Only Randy Peterson" forum about Hilton and the June InsideFlyer and received no responses. Can any of you experts help?

Here it is:

>Randy,

>I wonder if you could clarify the following passage from June's InsideEdition article:

> "Other {HHonors} program-wide changes include ... award stay standards(meaning your
award stays will be comparable to your tier)"

>What does that mean? Thanks.

I have myself critiqued Hilton elsewhere (Buzz section I think) a few days ago.

But it is not fair to compare Double Dip - which is not a promotion but a feature, with other promotions e.g. like the Starwood ones Beckles mentions. Hilton has its own promotions - late last year could get upto 50K Hilton points (though it was an unadvertised promo), this year there was an advertised promo for double points and double miles. Currently there are promotions with AA (triple miles using Diners Club), TWA (double miles) and Delta (varying, with extra bonuses the more you stay).

I don't know if InsideFlyer calls double dip a promotion or not, but it is a regular feature and not a limited time promotion. A case can be made that in some cases programs which do not offer Double Dip are more generous than Hilton with Double dip.

pgupta ~ I believe the Hilton 50K promotion last year was only for Gold VIP or higher too, wasn't it ... or am I mistaken about that ...

Hey, David, why do you say "hate to bite the hand?" Hopefully we'll get back to the point where you can feel free to criticize us with no reservations at all.

[This message has been edited by bryan at webflyer (edited 06-17-1999).]

Bryan, I have enjoyed your postings on FlyerTalk. Personally I have hoped that some of the articles I have slammed were not written by you.

[This message has been edited by pgupta011 (edited 06-17-1999).]

Thank you, pgupta. Some were written by me, but that's fine. I will very much be looking forward to everyone's response to the upcoming story on FlyerTalk. I really enjoyed doing it.

Bryan, normally my posts discuss the programs and industry. My disapointment here is not at Hilton, as I've come to expect that. It is with the fact that the article rated them an 8.5. Inside Flyer could have provided an honest critique to passengers who might not know better. I know the Webflyer team reviews the postings here on Flyertalk. The author must have known about the problems I linked to the post. The criticism is that Inside Flyer was, at best, misleading, and one does not like to accuse one's host of that.


[This message has been edited by NJDavid (edited 06-17-1999).]

My recollection of the Hilton 50K promotion last year was that it was open to anyone and offered a free Gold upgrade. But it was a "hidden" promotion - not advertised.

The best thing about such promotions is that there are no restrictions to when and how you can redeem. Much better than the Starwood promotion where you can:
1) Only redeem for Fridays.
2) Must redeem within 4 weeks of promotion end.
3) Cannot redeem all 3 nights at one property.
4) Cannot redeem multiple rooms on one night.

Rumor has it that Hilton will be offering the 50K promotion this year as well. If I had to say which is the better promotion: get Hilton 50K points or the Starwood Free Friday promotion, I would pick the Hilton promotion.

[This message has been edited by pgupta011 (edited 06-17-1999).]

Sorry to say I have to agree with most of the criticism of Hilton. As I once posted, they cheated me out of fast track Gold at the programs initiation and I've never been higher than Silver since.

In that regard, thanks NJDavid for the info on Gold- I guess I should have asked for it, huh?