First: thank you Inside Flyer for your articles and information on the various Programs. It has helped me learn the rules of travel.

But I have read the Hilton article twice and have a few questions:

*When was the final vote tally taken? Because if you have read some of the most recent posts on F-T... Hilton is slipping very very badly.
*Who voted on the varios aspects of the Hilton program? (I'm assuming it was not that recent considering most of scores were higher.)
*Interesting that at least two advisory members gave HILTon an "F."

It's just I would rank most of the criteria a little lower.

The BIG problems:

*TOO many stays latest have NOT been counted as double dip. NJDavid's experience is a prime example... he's paying a Business rate, just using an upgrade certificate and still NO DOUBLE DIP.
*Hotels have to be reminded ot put in HHonors #'s and airline numbers.
*The no hot water situation, occassional poor customer service.
*PHONE charges.
*So many Golds... So few upgrades. So few elites like myself taken as no more than just another guest.
*The sporatically working website.

I will praise Hilton:
*Customer service on the PHONE has been very very good.
*Sometimes you get the right people at the right Hilton and they are nice.
*Good award choices (Especially the Point Stretchers.)

SO (and I"m going to get a lot of E-mail on this) here are my ratings:

Earning ability: 4.0 (assuming this means DoubleDip, etc... point earnings)
Award Choices: 8.0
Partnerships: 8.0
Elite-Level Program: 6.0 (too many golds and they're raising minimum stays)
Online Services: 2.5
Rules/Conditions: 6.5 (sometimes its not clear)
Service Support: 7.0

SO my score: 6.0

Maybe I'm being too generous but Hilton is pushing me away and Starwood is now my number one Hotel program (Hiltons' now 2.)

Sorry everyone but this is one flyers opinion.

May I suggest: Maybe letting the Flyertalkers also vote when you do the monthly program reports. Like a general E-Mail and we give our own rankings.

Thanks for reading this and I'm sorry Hilton but you have to try a little harder (and STOP making it so hard to DOUBLE DIP!)


------------------
MEOW! MEOW! MEOW!!!

Thanks for the feedback. If nothing else, you can be sure we listen to what you all have to say. As for soliciting comments from this group, I think it's a great idea. There's a place on this site to do it: http://www.webflyer.com/@reviews/frrev.htm .

When checking, I noticed the info on this page is out of date, but if my memory serves (I'm doing this from home), we are reviewing Alaska MileagePlan in August and British Airways Executive Club (U.K. version) in the next digital review. (Sorry...we just put the July issue to bed. We reviewed Best Western Gold Crown Club.)

Feel free to drop me a line at [email protected] if you have any comments about the programs we'll be reviewing. You can also communicate with the entire publishing staff (including Randy) at [email protected]. If it would be helpful, we can post a list of reviews planned for the rest of the year.

As for our ratings, we ranked Hilton in mid-May. The ratings were a group effort, as they usually are.

Also, as an FYI, our review criteria was recently revamped, and the number job of anyone doing a review is to check that program's section on this board. We also added the category of "online services."

P.S. - I'll admit I'm a newcomer to this business. I joined Randy's staff in January and my background is in local news reporting and editing, as well as a stint in PR for the library system in Cheyenne, Wyo. It's a fascinating, intricate business, and I learn more and more each day.

Though I'm not a huge Hilton fan, they do have some good things going at certain locations. After writing about my wifes lost new HWV shirt we left at the Hilton Waikola Village, on the Big Island, they did not find it! Katherine Sanders, the Assistant to the Resident Manager promptly e-mailed me for more info to replace the shirt. Over my objections she INSISTED on sending a new one-which she did promptly and we received it two days later. When I wrote her to thank her and offer to send a complimentary note to corporate she INSISTED that I don't and again said it was not necessary. The people make the company! We will surely stay there next time! Kudos to Hilton and especially to HWV, Hawaii!

I want to invite any authorized representative of Hilton HHonors to respond to some of the concerns posted on this thread. We know that some of you lurk out there; now you're being personally invited (implored, practically) to respond. If what is written here reflects anything like a general impression of HHonors' recent performance, I would think someone from HHonors would be eager to address the matter.

Let's hope so.

[This message has been edited by bryan at webflyer (edited 06-22-1999).]

If someone from Hilton is talking about these issues, also how about a response to how the program is being watered down (elimination of VIP certificates, higher points needed for airlines, certain hotel stays, gaming rewards etc.).

I appreciate Bryan’s invitation to openly respond to the various postings on the site lately. First of all, let me express that we take this feedback quite seriously. I’m the Senior Director of Marketing for HHonors, and from our President on down, we strive to have the program be driven by the voice of the consumer. I’m relatively new to FlyerTalk, and have found the feedback informative, directional and, at times, quite concerning.

Let me begin by lending some insight to InsideFlyer’s Inside Look review of Hilton HHonors. Prior to its publication, I spent some time with Bryan, Pam et al in Colorado Springs outlining a serious of program changes we’re implementing to address the very concerns you’ve raised. So, if it appears that their review doesn’t reflect your current experience with the program, it’s largely because we’ve only recently made these changes. Now the challenge, and our commitment, is to make them happen on a consistent basis throughout the Hilton system. I’m confident that you’ll see continuous improvement in your experiences with Hilton as a result of these and other ongoing changes.

I’d like to take the opportunity to address several of the more significant points you’ve all raised, and invite any of you who are interested to contact me directly via e-mail to discuss these or other issues in greater detail. My hope is that we can establish an ongoing dialogue to evaluate how we’re doing moving forward. You can reach me at [email protected]. While I realize that this may open me up to a rather significant influx of correspondence, we are truly committed to hearing your concerns and addressing them to the best of our abilities. The only indulgence I would ask is that, if I receive the volume of inquiries I suspect I’m likely to, that you be patient as I try to respond to each of you in a timely fashion.

Having said that, let me move on to address some of the specific comments raised in recent postings.

ELIGIBLITY FOR DOUBLE DIPPING

Several of you have commented that, while you like Double Dipping in concept, you’re finding it difficult to use the benefit based on the rate paid. This is extremely disappointing to me, as I suspect it has more to do with incorrect application of our policy than the actual intent of the program. Hilton allows you to earn both points and miles on any business-related rate, and our definition of these rates is quite broad.

In fact, roughly 70% of HHonors stays currently are earning mileage. I am not, however, discounting your experiences. Given our policy, I’d love to get more information as to how and when you’ve been denied the opportunity to Double Dip. “NJDavid” cites, for example, that on a recent stay the hotel wouldn’t enter the frequent flyer number because he/she (don’t want to assume) had upgraded to Towers. That is absolutely incorrect and does not reflect our stated policies or intent. “NJDavid” – if you’d be kind enough to provide me with the information from that stay, I’ll be happy to have the mileage posted to your frequent flyer account.

I’d appreciate any additional insight anyone could lend to this, as it is our intent to make this unique benefit broadly available to business travelers.

AVAILABILITY OF HHONORS GOLD VIP STATUS

Several of you have commented that we have diluted the value of Gold VIP status and have given it away indiscriminately. While I can assure you that this isn’t the case, I’d like to know more about what’s caused you to think that. In fact, as some of you have pointed out, we’ve actually slightly increased the stay requirements for Gold VIP status to help ensure that we’re properly differentiating the guest experience for our top tier members. I’d welcome your feedback on this point.

FULL POINTS FOR BUSINESS RATE STAYS

This is a clear example of us hearing your feedback and acting on it. Effective July 1, members will earn full points for business rate stays at all HHonors hotels systemwide.

“NJDavid” – I did want to address your comment that this restriction should have been eliminated immediately. As with any major program change, there are financial and operational issues that require some lead time to implement the change. While I realize that this is irrelevant from a consumer standpoint, I’m sure you can appreciate the business implications and can assure you that we introduced this change as quickly as possible.

CONFIRMED RESERVATIONS

As you may be aware, Hilton just recently launched a new reservations system – a significant investment to improve the quality of our reservations processing. While we would anticipate some “bugs” with a new system, I believe that we have the majority of these behind us and have a state-of-the-art system that will help provide the level of service you expect. I don’t think you’ll encounter these problems moving forward, but if you do, please provide me with the details so we can address them.

EQUITABILITY OF REWARD EXCHANGE TRANSACTIONS

A number of you – including Randy Petersen – have pointed out that exchanging Membership Rewards points for miles and then exchanging the miles for HHonors points via the HHonors Reward Exchange works out more favorably than directly exchanging Membership Rewards points for HHonors points. No sugar coating – that’s absolutely true. Some of you have suggested that this is a deliberate move by Hilton to make a profit on members who don’t recognize this. Let me say, unequivocally, that this isn’t the case.

We do work to structure our rewards equitably, but given the different financial arrangements we have with various partners, we have put forth the best offering we can for each, rather than lowering the consumer value by providing a comparable scale across the board. By offering a two-way exchange of points to miles and miles to points through the HHonors Reward Exchange, however – something no other hotel company provides – our goal is to provide our members with the greatest flexibility to utilize the various partner currencies as best fits their needs.

ROOM UPGRADES

This has been an area of challenge for us, and we’re committed to consistently upgrading our Gold and Diamond VIP members. In conjunction with the recent program changes we’ve made, we are reinforcing the fundamental importance of this benefit through hotel staff training. While our policy has always been to upgrade our top tier members, we have refocused our efforts in this arena and I’m confident that you will begin to see an immediate and substantial improvement. Again, I’d welcome any feedback to the contrary so we can address it.

HILTON.COM

This is one of those “be careful what you wish for” issues. Of course, we’d hoped that Hilton.com would be tremendously successful. Fortunately/unfortunately, it has been – to the point where we’ve had to upgrade our systems to handle the volumes. As a frequent web surfer, I know how frustrating this can be, and I appreciate your patience. This is another area where you should begin to see ongoing improvement, including recent site enhancements that have improved both functionality and content.

MISCELLANEOUS

Note to “NJDavid” – You’ve clearly had a series of bad experiences with us and, even if you’re not predisposed to continue staying with us, I’d greatly appreciate the opportunity to speak with you first-hand to address your concerns. Your feedback would be both helpful and, I’m hoping, actionable.

Note to “doc” – I’d love to talk to you directly about your recent post to see how we can make things right.

Note to “pgupta011” – Your points about recent program modifications are well taken. Believe me, none of these changes were undertaken lightly. In the case of Reward Discount Certificates, for example, it was an extremely difficult decision. While these were certainly valued by our members, they became prohibitively expensive for us to support. I realize that doesn’t make it any more palatable, but I’m sure you can appreciate the business decisions we sometimes have to make. Having said that, in concert with he enhancements we’re currently making to the program, we continue to offer a number of ways for our VIPs to enjoy greater access to a variety of rewards. These include richer threshold bonuses, VIP-Only Rewards and VIP stay bonuses.

Note to all – I know that I can only begin to address your concerns in this format. I hope, however, that you’ll take me up on my offer to establish an ongoing dialogue. Our desire to continuously improve the program is sincere, and I’d like you all to be a part of that process.

Pam, Bryan, and Adam...Thank You.

Ditto Premex- Thanks very much!

Regarding the entire hotel industry and not just Hilton specifically, it seems that the level of training and service we've become accustomed to receiving has been getting harder and harder for the hotels to deliver, probably due to many factors including increased occupancy rates, low unemployment, difficulty retaining quality emplyees, etc. From the very highest tiers like Shangri-La on down I've perceived a decline in satisfaction levels. If you fly enough, you get dissappointed with many airlines and it seems that if you stay at hotels enough, similarly you are now dissappointed as well. This formerly happened very infrequently or not at all.

Hopefully, Adam, the changes you've described here are already beginning to help and matters will continue to improve. We all hope so! I'll be pleased to talk to you and surely will be in touch.

Adam - thank you for your comments. I hope that you can continue this dialogue.

I have never had a problem with getting double dip with the corporate rate. When making a reservation I always ask the agent if the rate qualifies for double dip. Sometimes with bounce back rates or discount rates the answer is no. Sometimes the double dip qualifying rate is only marginally more expensive than the discount rate, so its worthwhile spending a little more. Sometimes it is not so its worthwhile not getting the miles.

I receive a lot of confirmed upgrade certificates (one per 5 visits), but find little opportunity to use them. On the plus side, at a recent stay even though I could not get a room on the tower level, I was given access to that area.

Regarding gold membership, I think the point is that Hilton is giving away a lot of complimentary gold memberships, and at the same time increasing night stays for those who do not get a complimentary membership. Which is great if one gets the complimentary gold membership, but not fair to others who earn it or just barely fail to make it. How about reducing the requirements for gold to what they were before, and not comping anyone.

PS: I really dislike Hilton's new phone charges (mentioned by Catman in his message). At the other spectrum many properties are providing free and unlimited local phone calls, so they will definitely get a run for my spending.


[This message has been edited by pgupta011 (edited 06-25-1999).]

Re: program modifications, there seems to be a recurring theme among FFPs that it has become prohibitively expensive, so we must keep on chipping. Are FFPs going the route that (US) Social Security is taking? Some inside comments about how the companies view frequent flyer/guest programs, where are these headed, what to expect say 10 years from now, etc. would be appreciated. I don't know about Hilton, but I have read that for airlines the majority of points are not earned by flying but result from the airline selling miles - so it seems that they can get the money upfront and dilute the miles later.

The VIP bonuses have not changed so I do not understand the point you are making. Re: change in threshhold bonus, I am not a big fan of stay based bonuses, because this encourages me to shuttle from one hotel to another day after day, so one day at the airport Hilton, then another at the city Hilton, then another at the city Marriott and the next day back at the city Hilton, and finally one day at the airport Hilton. This is much more rewarding than staying 5 days at the city Hilton.

[This message has been edited by pgupta011 (edited 06-26-1999).]

Pam at Webflyer:

Can I suggest that if you are planning to review the BA Exec Club (UK) you take a look at TEDHL's excellent OneWorld comparison chart.

There are many benefits of this programme which the regular users are aware of, but even BA's Exec Club Managers are not!

Make sure you speak to Christine Nicholson, she is turning the Exec Club 'round - her influence is amazing and I am sure she has interesting plans (she is also a lovely lady!).

If I can be of any help, please just shout.


Nick

Subject: easy upgrade to Gold
Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 11:41:59 +0200
From: Rudi Martel <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
CC: [email protected]

gruezi Adam (gruezi = Hi in swiss german)

thank you for your statements on webflyer. I hope that the required information that follows on "how easy it is to become HHonors Gold" will not harm the people at Hilton, that granted me that favour.

I trust, that you/Hilton will use this information only as a insight-fact about how "things" are actually handled (in this case in favor of your individual egoistic costumer = me, but at the same time somehow "unfair" to those who qualify by the rules).

The following two emails give you full information on how easy and fast it was for
me to become Hilton-Gold (with, so far, only 4 stays at Hilton in the last 12 months)..

greetings from Switzerland
Rudi

followed by two emails (my request for upgrade to gold and HHonors granting it).

Thank you, Mr Burke, for responding to this thread and offering to open up a dialogue with Flyertalkers.

As you requested, I have sent you an e-mail to give you a few more opinions/details.

It is a very hopefull sign indeed that you have chosen / been allowed to be an on-line voice for Hilton in this forum. You are more than welcome here. I'm sure I and my fellow Flyertalkers will not confuse you (the concerned representative) with any complaints we might have with Hilton.

Your presence is an encouraging beginning. Lets hope you can play a part in turning the declining Hilton situation around.

Welcome aboard.

Thanks, Adam for your comments.

The one thing that would instantly make HHonors much better for me would be to drop the "business rate" stays requirement for promotions. Of the programs I actively participate in, HHonors seems to have the tightest restrictions on qualifying rates. While most programs exclude a few obvious rates (travel agent, employee), HHonors seems to exclude more than it includes.

I'm loving Starwood's Free Fridays. Four nights already toward the requirement. Almost any rate qualifies... including one that cost me only $64.50. (Aside: Very much agree with pgupta's nights vs. stays comment.)

In general, these programs and promotions are hard enough to keep track of w/o having the added burden or worrying about rates. Especially when you figure in that most of the time difference between a qualifying rate and nonqualifying rate is not huge.

I got burned by this a couple of years ago with the summer promotion. I had two stays that definitely qualified and a third that I'd reserved online. Found out too late that id didn't qualify... after pleading w/the service center, I finally got the free night cert. (Unfortunately, with all the tight capacity controls, I could never use it and it expired.) I've largely avoided Hilton since.

If the above is not possible, I'd like to suggest a very modest step, which may fall into the category of things which should be easy but aren't. I make a lot of my reservations online (Travel Web, Expedia, etc.) ... is there a way to indicate which of the dozen or so rates that come up qualify for Double Dip and promotions?

If I could've seen on screen that the rate didn't qualify, I could've opted for another one and saved myself a lot of hassle.

[This message has been edited by rocky (edited 06-26-1999).]

The fact that Adam Burke, Senior Director of Marketing for HHonors, has taken a huge step and decided to post (rather than lurk) in this Forum speaks very highly for Hilton HHonors.

I'm impressed. I am sure he debated for a while on what the consequences might be in doing such a bold move. But, knowing the posters here on FlyerTalk, I think it will pay off richly for both us and HHonors.

As always, when such a great gift is bestowed upon us, I hope that we all tread lightly and don't abuse his generosity and time. For if he is anything like MJW in the NorthWest Airlines forum, we have indeed stumbled upon a great asset. http://talk.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif