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FlyerTalk Forums (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/index.php)
-   Hawaii-Based Airlines (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/hawaii-based-airlines-447/)
-   -   The Predatory Skies (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/hawaii-based-airlines/581316-predatory-skies.html)

gemac Jul 24, 2006 9:56 am
Originally Posted by kaukau
What about the recent chapter 11 situation with both AQ and HA. Was that the result of the ease of running an airline in our state?
I am sure that we all have our own opinions of the causes of AQ and HA filing Chapter 11. My thinking was that the root cause was trying to compete with mainland airlines on mainland routes. Mainland airlines have come much farther than AQ and HA in the process of adjusting to life as an unregulated airline, and so have cut their costs to levels significantly below that of HA and AQ. HA and AQ were able to stall off cost-cutting reforms because they had the cash cow of interisland traffic, which was uncompetitive and therefore profitable even under their archaic cost structure. Those interisland profits did not prove to be sufficient, however, so both airlines were forced to go through Chapter 11.

I have always thought that contending (as HA and AQ did) that you made money charging $275 for a 5,000 mile round trip, while you lost money charging $180 for a 200 mile round trip, showed contempt for the intellectual abilities of your audience. Of course, both AQ and HA have continually refused to have that sublime assertion verified by independent auditors.

vrichard Jul 24, 2006 11:13 am
Originally Posted by BrokesiliaFlyer
Lets look at Hawaiian & go!'s highest fares.

HNL/KOA

Hawaiian - $171.50 for a Y29 Fare

go! - $79.00 for a YGO fare

Anyone else find that a bit absurd?
Actually, the Hawaiian Y29 fare isn't their highest one-way coach fare -
Y29 is a restricted, non-refundable "normal" fare.

The highest Hawaiian coach fare is Y at $412. one way. Yes, Four hundred twelve dollars. This ticket is partially refundable (there is a $25 fee). Hawaiian's highest fare is unrestricted first class, at $463. one way.


Code:
HNL  Honolulu Int'l HI US [PHNL]
KOA  Kona Keahole HI US [PHKO]
OW

Carrier          From          To  Fare      Cur    Fare Basis
--------- ------ ---- --------- ---- --------- ---- -- ----------
HA              HNL            KOA      46    USD    L
HA              HNL            KOA      62    USD    G
HA              HNL            KOA      75    USD    I
HA              HNL            KOA    116    USD    S
HA              HNL            KOA    148    USD    V
HA              HNL            KOA    165    USD    X
HA              HNL            KOA    173    USD    Y1
HA              HNL            KOA    185    USD    Y29
HA              HNL            KOA    188    USD    F1
HA              HNL            KOA    238    USD    P29
HA              HNL            KOA    238    USD    F29
HA              HNL            KOA    412    USD    Y
HA              HNL            KOA    419    USD    P
HA              HNL            KOA    463    USD    F

Code:
ECONOMY CLASS UNRESTRICTED  NORMAL FARE FARE

[BK CODE]
Y -

[PENALTY]
CANCELLATIONS - BEFORE DEPARTURE - PER TICKET CHARGE USD 25.00 FOR REFUND.
AFTER DEPARTURE - PER TICKET CHARGE USD 50.00 FOR NO-SHOW/REFUND.
CHANGES - BEFORE DEPARTURE - CHANGES PERMITTED FOR REISSUE. NOTE -
ANY FARE DIFFERENCE MUST BE PAID AND TICKETS MUST BE REISSUED AT THE
SAME TIME A VOLUNTARY CHANGE IS MADE. WHOLLY UNUSED TICKETS- A. ANY CHANGES
PRIOR TO ORIGINATING FLIGHT- REPRICE THE ENTIRE TICKET USING CURRENT
FARES APPLICABLE TO THE CHANGED ITINERARY. A1. IF THE NEW FARE
IS EQUAL TO OR HIGHER IN VALUE THAN THE ORIGINAL UNUSED TICKET- COLLECT
THE FARE DIFFERENCE... A2. IF THE NEW FARE IS LOWER IN VALUE THAN
THE ORIGINAL UNUSED  TICKET THE RESIDUAL AMOUNT IS REFUNDABLE MINUS
THE APPLICABLE ADMINISTRATIVE SERVICE FEE FOR THE REFUND. B. SAME DAY
STANDBY- FOR TRAVEL BETWEEN THE CONTINENTAL US AND HAWAII/ PASSENGERS
HOLDING CONFIRMED RESERVATIONS AND TICKETS MAY STANDBY FOR EARLIER/LATER
SAME DAY FLIGHTS FOR WHICH THE FARE IS APPLICABLE AT NO ADDITIONAL
 COST/ PROVIDED A STOPOVER DOES NOT OCCUR. SAME DAY STANDBY-FOR
TRAVEL WITHIN THE STATE OF HAWAII/ PASSENGERS HOLDING CONFIRMED RESERVATIONS
AND TICKETS MAY STANDBY FOR EARLIER/LATER SAME DAY FLIGHTS FOR
WHICH THE FARE IS APPLICABLE AT NO ADDITIONAL COST PROVIDED A STOPOVER
DOES NOT OCCUR AND THE FLIGHT THEY ARE STANDING BY FOR IS UNAVAILABLE
FOR SALE. AFTER DEPARTURE - CHANGES PERMITTED FOR REISSUE. NOTE
- NOTE-FARE DIFFERENCE AND CHANGE FEE MUST BE PAID AND TICKETS MUST BE
REISSUED AT THE SAME TIME A VOLUNTARY CHANGE IS MADE. PARTIALLY USED
TICKETS- A. CHANGES TO OTHER THAN THE ORIGINATING FLIGHT ARE PERMITTED
ANYTIME PROVIDED- A1. APPLICABLE  INVENTORY FOR THE FARE TICKETED
IS AVAILABLE. A2. THE CHANGE MEETS THE RULES OF THE ORIGINAL FARE TICKETED.
A3. THE CHANGE DOES NOT RESULT IN A STOPOVER. B. IF APPLICABLE
INVENTORY IS NOT AVAILABLE/ OR IF A STOPOVER OCCURS/ PASSENGERS MAY
CHANGE CONTINUING/RETURN PORTION TO ANY APPLICABLE HA ONE WAY PUBLISHED
FARE. TO  DETERMINE THE VALUE OF TRANSPORTATION USED/ TAKE THE VALUE
OF THE ORIGINAL TICKET LESS THE CURRENT ONE WAY PUBLISHED FARE/
WHICHEVER IS APPLICABLE TO THE USED PORTION. THE RESIDUAL VALUE IS TO
BE APPLIED TO ANY APPLICABLE HA PUBLISHED ONE WAY FARE. C. SAME DAY
STANDBY-FOR TRAVEL BETWEEN THE CONTINENTAL US AND HAWAII/ PASSENGERS
HOLDING CONFIRMED RESERVATIONS AND TICKETS MAY STANDBY FOR EARLIER/LATER
SAME DAY FLIGHTS FOR WHICH THE FARE IS APPLICABLE AT NO ADDITIONAL
COST/ PROVIDED A STOPOVER DOES NOT OCCUR. SAME DAY STANDBY- FOR TRAVEL
WITHIN THE STATE OF HAWAII/ PASSENGERS HOLDING CONFIRMED RESERVATIONS
AND TICKETS MAY STANBY FOR  EARLIER/LATER SAME DAY FLIGHTS FOR
WHICH THE FARE IS APPLICABLE AT NO ADDITIONAL COST PROVIDED A STOPOVER
DOES NOT OCCUR AND THE FLIGHT THEY ARE STANDING BY FOR IS UNAVAILABLE
FOR SALE. CANCELLATIONS - CANCELLATIONS PERMITTED FOR REFUND. NOTE
- PER TICKET CHARGE USD 75.00 FOR LOST TICKET. NOTE- 1-A SERVICE CHARGE
OF USD  25.00 WILL BE IMPOSED IF TICKETS WERE ISSUED FOR TRAVEL WHOLLY
WITHIN THE STATE OF HAWAII OR WHOLLY WITHIN THE U.S.A. 2-NO SERVICE
CHARGE WILL BE IMPOSED FOR MILITARY PASSENGERS WHEN TRANSPORTATION
IS PAID FOR WITH A U.S. GOVERNMENT TRANSPORTATION REQUEST FORM NO. 1169

[RES/TKTG]
FIRST SGMT MUST BE CONFIRMED.

[SEASONS]
NO SEASON RESTRICTIONS APPLY.

[BLACKOUTS]
NO BLACKOUT RESTRICTIONS APPLY.

[FLT APPL]
NO FLIGHT RESTRICTIONS APPLY.

[STOPOVERS]
NO ENROUTE STOPOVERS PERMITTED.  A STOPOVER OCCURS WHEN THE PASSENGER
DOES NOT DEPART AN INTERMEDIATE POINT WITHIN 4 HOURS.

[TICKET RESTRICTIONS]
IF THE RESERVATION IS MADE ON/BEFORE 31DEC05, THEN TICKETS MAY BE ISSUED:
BY TICKETS BY MAIL BY PTA AND SATISFIES TICKETING REQUIREMENTS OR
IF THE RESERVATION IS MADE ON/AFTER 1JAN06, THEN TICKETS MAY BE ISSUED:
BY TICKETS BY MAIL TICKETS MUST NOT BE ISSUED: BY PTA

[SURCHGS]
SURCHG OF USD 12.09 APPLIES PER ADT/CHD IN EACH DIRECTION. SURCHG IS BASED
ON TRIP DATE RATHER THAN DATE OF ORIGIN.

[DISCOUNTS]
100 PCT OF THE ADT FARE IS CHARGED FOR AN INS PSGR UNDER 2 YRS OF AGE.
INS PSGR MUST BE ACCOMPANIED ON ALL SGMTS BY AN ADT PSGR TRAVELING IN
THE SAME COMPARTMENT. - - - - 100 PCT OF THE ADT FARE IS CHARGED FOR
A CNN PSGR 2 THRU 15 YRS OF AGE. CNN PSGR MUST BE ACCOMPANIED ON ALL
SGMTS BY AN ADT PSGR TRAVELING IN THE SAME COMPARTMENT. - - - - 100
PCT OF THE ADT FARE IS CHARGED FOR A UNN PSGR 5 THRU 11 YRS OF AGE.
PSGR MAY BE UNACCOMPANIED. - - - - NO FARE IS CHARGED FOR AN INF PSGR
UNDER 2 YRS OF AGE NOT OCCUPYING A SEAT. INF PSGR MUST BE ACCOMPANIED
ON ALL SGMTS BY AN ADT PSGR TRAVELING IN THE SAME COMPARTMENT. ***
UNACCOMPANIED CHILD 5-11 - CHARGE 100 PCT OF FARE PLUS USD 35 ** WILL
NOT AUTOPRICE ** UNACCOMPANIED MINORS UNDER 5 YRS OF AGE WILL NOT BE
ACCEPTED FOR TRVL - UNACCOMP MINORS WILL BE ASSESSED A SERVICE FEE OF
35 USD PER CHILD FOR TRVL WHOLLY WITHIN STATE OF HAWAII  AGENT DISCOUNTS
- DISCOUNTS APPLY - INFORMATION IS NOT AVAILABLE AT THIS TIME -
CONTACT CARRIER FOR DETAILS. TOUR CONDUCTOR DISCOUNTS APPLY - NO INFORMATION
AVAILABLE AT THIS TIME - CONTACT CARRIER FOR DETAILS.

[REROUTE]
SEE PENALTY.

[TRANSFERS]
UNLIMITED TRANSFERS AS PERMITTED ON THE ROUTING.

[COMBINATIONS]
CONDITIONS APPLICABLE TO CIRCLE TRIP/SINGLE OR DOUBLE OPEN JAW - -MAY
BE COMBINED WITH ANY ONE WAY/ROUND TRIP FARE GOVERNED BY ANY RULE IN
ANY TARIFF VIA ANY CARRIER. -MOST RESTRICTIVE CONDITIONS APPLY. ADDITIONAL
CONDITIONS APPLY CIRCLE TRIP  - -PERMITTED. -MAXIMUM OF 0 STOPOVERS
PERMITTED. NOTE: UNLIMITED FARE BREAKS/STOPOVERS ARE NOT PERMITTED.
OPEN JAW      - -SINGLE OPEN JAW PERMITTED AT EITHER ORIGIN OR DESTINATION.
DOUBLE OPEN JAW PERMITTED. END-ON-END    - -PERMITTED. TRAVEL
MUST BE VIA THE FARE COMBINATION POINT.

[OPEN RTN]
NOT ALLOWED.

[REFUNDS]
SEE PENALTY.

[CO-TERMINALS]
NOT APPLICABLE.

DanTravels Jul 24, 2006 2:26 pm
Originally Posted by vrichard
Actually, the Hawaiian Y29 fare isn't their highest one-way coach fare -
Y29 is a restricted, non-refundable "normal" fare.

The highest Hawaiian coach fare is Y at $412. one way. Yes, Four hundred twelve dollars. This ticket is partially refundable (there is a $25 fee). Hawaiian's highest fare is unrestricted first class, at $463. one way.
Highest published fare, but can anyone without a green screen even find it? Or is that reserved for people who search for inter-island travel on mainland partner's web sites? :)


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