Nudity in Germany's hotels wellness areas : why ?
 

Maybe I will find here an answer for something that always struck me in Germany (and to some extends in Austria and germanic part of Switzerland) :

"Why do Germans enforce nudity in sauna / hammam areas ?"

I don't mind people being naked (although I would not recommend it as a doctor), but I am always bewildered when locals demand it on clothed guests, as if they wanted to see them naked.

Where my logic gets lost is in the lockers, which are separated between male and female, and provide booth for unclothing in intimacy, before everybody joins the wet area, totally naked.

If anyone has hints, I would love to hear them for my own culture.

Enforce? I have not seen anyone demanding you strip before entering a sauna area. Yes, Germans tend to visit the public sauna naked, but no one objects to you covering yourself with a towel or wearing swimming trunks. The same applies to changing areas. Granted the common dressing areas are annoying if you don't partake to observing others undress, but again no one objects if you use a large towel to cover yourself while changing if you are 'shy'.

It's only for hygienic reasons. I don't even want to think about the bacterial conditions inside swimming trunks in a 90° Sauna with a humidity of 90%. I'm surprised about your recommendation as a doctor not to go naked.

I recently visited the Szechenyi bath in Budapest. All guest in the sauna wore clothes and didn't even use a towel. The smell in the sauna room was so bad I left after a few seconds.

I have been in hotel's wellness areas where I was politely pointed the "Nur textilefrei" sign by locals who seemed disturbed that I would keep my swimtrunks.

As for enforcement, in a recent trip to Munich, I wanted to try the Erding therms. There, I was asked by the staff to remove my swimtrunk : trying to say in my best German, that I would rather keep it, I was clearly answered that I would be evicted out of the complex if I didn't get naked.

So, yes...enforced. But that is not my question (after all, each society enforces its own regulation, like it or not) but more where is the origin of this and the reason too.

Hello. Thank you very much for taking the time to answer. Unfortunately, I don't buy the hygiene one.

The hygienic reason had already been given to me first time I asked while there and is a non-sense. I can understand that the sensation of sweating is less disturbing naked, but keep in mind that undergarments basic purpose IS hygiene. Plus, swimwear are nowadays made in non bacterial fabrics, which is NOT the case of the cotton towels used in lieu of swimwear. Or do you change towel after every sauna ?

But beside saunas, the hygienic non-sense struck me when I saw people naked in the jacuzzis. I will skip details as nobody needs to be gastroenterologist to see why.

Indeed, closer reading of the T&C of Therme Erding indeed say that the Sauna area is textilfrei :td:

Like the FKK reference. Evidently it has been put in there for a reason :D

http://www.therme-erding.de/de/10068...tenschutz.html

My wife is finnish and is amazed to what extent the Germans have taken the Sauna. :)

Same happened to an Australian friend of mine in a Therme close to Frankfurt. They couldn't really give a satisfactory reason as to why either.

This is an interesting question.
I kind of never questioned it, as my "education" said when in sauna, go naked.
And I assume that it is enforced in Germany in order to take away the reasons to by shy in case you are shy... if everybody is naked, no reason to be shy.
I always assumed that it is rooted in sauna culture / Finland.

Same at Claudius Therme in Cologne. They point out as well that they do not want you to wear clothes in the sauna. The change area for the sauna is mixed by the way ;)

Many people were a towel or a bath robe though and only totally uncover while actually IN the sauna.

As for the hygiene, everybody is supposed to shower anyway before the sauna and most do before, in between and after the visits. Further, it is mandatory to sit on a towel, I don't recall anybody sitting on the wood with nothing in between.

I don't know why they enforce it but quite frankly, why would I want to wear anything while it is too hot anyway?

I'd rather have all people that mother nature didn't bless with good looks wear long sleeves and pants in summer. In a sauna, I at least expect to see unfortunate stuff.

I am totally putting a sauna on my to-do list for Germany. Wow, didn't even think about it. This is gonna be great!

In the sauna there are untreated wooden benches and they get stains if they get wet. Wet bathing suits are REAL a problem for them. That is why you should ALWAYS be seated on your CLEAN towel with all parts of your body that come into contact with the wooden benches.

Bathing suites all have some sort of techincal fiber - be it lycra or what ever. Have a closer look at your bathing suit - it normally cannot be washed over 30 dergrees C never mind 60 or higher. Towels however can be washed at 90 to 95 Degrees C and are therefore far more hygienic.

That is why you should have a LARGE clean and dry towel for inside the sauna to sit or lie on (optionally a small one the wipe your sweat off) and then a regular towel to shower with.

I can't tell you exactly why Germans prefer nudity in the Sauna, but we are not the only ones according to the German wikipedia, which also lists Finland, Estonia, Latvia, Russia, Sweden, Norway, Netherlands, Belgium, Luxembourg, Austria, Switzerland, Italy, Slovenia and Croatia as countries, which prefer nudity in the sauna.

I experienced this in Austria last year. An older (Dutch) gentleman was quite put out by the nudity requirement and decided not to partake of the sauna in the end. As he was our table neighbour for most of a week I knew he was a medical doctor and I also knew he was very fit and cut a good figure on the piste. So I can only assume that his reluctance was based on (what some would see as excessive) modesty.

Oh good, then I won't gross you out too much! ;)

Hello and thanks for your answer. This one, no matter if it's THE reason or just one of them, sounds very interesting and does make sense.

But it only answers the sauna question. Why also in the jacuzzi or hammam, which are wood free ? Also, why do other people bother so much if you keep your swimsuit and seat on a towel ?

Indeed, I saw it in other countries (never in Italy though). My question was more why is it ENFORCED in Germany, while it is more a choice in other countries.

Ok, cross checked with my wife: public saunas in FI are gender separate affairs, men and women have separate facilities. Most wear a towel or something to get to the room, then disrobe, place the specific sauna towel on the bench to sit on and use the other towel to wipe or cover some strategic parts if shy.

Since I grew up in India where the climate was a sauna for a few months a year (incl no serious electricity in the village for about 5 years) I don't really get the joy of making yourself sweat on purpose. My wife loves it, but is very private. What the germans do in the sauna shock her :)

What shocking procedures can be experienced in German sauna? :confused:

Two German traits come together in a sauna. One is believing in rules, the other one the preference of everyone being similar.

If few people in a sauna would be naked or wouldn't be naked (doesn't matter, actually), those few that are different cause everyone else to feel that they think they are better. Hence, it's considered to be rude to be different (actually, being different is OK, showing that you are different is what's problematic).

Arguing with your feeling of being inferior due to the behavior of others isn't going to work well. Therefore there are rules that people can refer to when they think that someone isn't behaving appropriately. If it's printed, there's little room for discussions and interpretations.

The fact that you have to be nude in a German sauna is just an accident. It could just as well have been that you have to wear a red hat. It doesn't matter, as long as everyone behaves the same and this behavior can easily be requested.

This behavior isn't limited to saunas, but that would be an entirely different (political) discussion.

I guess it's an equality issue.

Just guess what would happen, if a clothed man would regularly stare at naked women in the sauna. But if he is nude as well, the women can at least stare back. ;)

Welcome to german saunas! Hopefully your visit will be helpful in dropping the average age of sauna visitors below the current 70+ level....

It really depends on where you go. The stylish places like Claudius Therme in Cologne and Therme Erding (nearby MUC) are definitely places where younger folks show up as well. They want all the stuff around the sauna as well, not only a small 5 square meter place with nothing else. That's where you find 70+

Do you have any sociological evidence or indeed any other evidence for your claim? To me, this seems to be stereotypes and prejudice at its best...

Am I aware of any social or historical studies that discuss the reasons whether and why Germans tend to enforce sauna rules more stringent than others? No.

Is there evidence out there to show that in Germany we favor compromises of conflicts, equality of elitism, problems over opportunities, rules over discussions... yes. You only have to open a news paper and read the discussions about school systems, or listen to some political discussions. Or, just talk with people, or observe their behavior.

It really comes down to cultural differences. If you don't feel comfortable with adopting the local culture, albeit temporarily, then don't take part in the activity.

But if you do, and even if that means getting out of your comfort zone, you might discover that you actually enjoy the experience and benefit from it.

(Of course, I'm assuming that you are sensible in your choice of activity avoiding unnecessary risks etc!)

The world is full of rich and different experiences. Embrace them but don't do yourself any harm!

Even Stalin mentioned: "There won't be a revolution in germany, as you have to step on the lawn"

Refering to the many signs in parks not to do so.



This post is not intented to qualify for any Godwin point.

Wow, even Comrade Dzugashvili noticed all of that? Very interesting. Can't wait to check out the German culture. T-minus 3 days :)

Hi and thank you for this insight of the German culture. Wether it is the right answer or not (I don't think there is only one original answer to the question), it is the kind of social / ethnological hint I was curious about ; the systematic (and unfounded) answer about hygiene I was given (even before asking here) was clearly a popular belief (and we all have our typical ones in every country). And this had to have a societal ground.

So thanks again ! And for "Alsacienne", asking "why ?" never implied that I judge the practise as bad or good. It just means that I am curious about it.

Very strong words.

Let me explain it more detailed:

The typical sequence in a sauna is

• Heating
• Showering
• Cooling down
• Resting

If somebody wears clothes in the heating room, the main purpose of the shower - to be clean for the next steps like jumping in the pool to cool down - is suspended.

The only way to avoid negative hygienic impacts would be to enter the heating room with fresh and dry clothes und not to use any facilities inside the bath after the heating turn.

In countries where entering the sauna with clothes is allowed, the temperature of the heating room is maybe not as high as it is in Germany or Finland. A steam bath has a temperature of about 40° which is not much more than a whirlpool.

Yes, I have several towels with the same colour to be able to clean them together at 95°.

For a similar hygienic reason as described above it is prohibited in many bath and pools in Germany to wear those knee-long swimming trunks (german article) for swimming.

which states: "When talking about XXL swim wear Heuser isn't worried for hygenic reasons. (...) Nowadays they use filters and special sieves that deal with fabric and other types of contamination quite effeciently. He's rather worried about the content of their pockets. (...) And there's another reason why pool operators don't like this kind of swim wear: They carry a lot of water out of the pool, says Heuser. Refilling is expensive."

The article also states that those knee-long swimming trunks are prohibited in some, not in many swimming pools.

Just to avoid any misunderstanding... Hygiene is an important topic for many people in Germany. Again, I can only judge from personal experience, interpretation of the products I see around me and studies that cover increased hygiene and cleanliness in Eastern Germany after the reunification 20 years ago.

However, I don't think hygiene is the actual reason to demand nuditiy in saunas. It's kind of difficult to explain that we think that 70°C is hot enough to kill germs in food, 95°C to kill them in towels, but 90-110°C in a sauna aren't.

Glad you clarified this ....... so many of the local expats preface their opinions (usually negative) about cultural matters with the word WHY?!!

I would like to point out that it is not just the sauna in Germany. I was in the Hyatt in Cologne and they have a pool. The locker room and shower facilities of this Hyatt were CO-ED and there was a full naked women showering with a naked man in the locker room (the sauna and steam were in this area). The pool was textile though.

I have been to a therme outside Nuernberg and was exposed to the naked sauna and the co-ed locker room (with stalls if you wanted to change in private); but most of the people (men and women) were changing out in the open. Most of the people who used the stalls were families where young children were a little shy.

So, now I expect in Germany that you may be exposed to co-ed changing facilities more often than not.

That is unusual even in Germany. In all the German hotels that I have stayed at, there are always separate locker rooms for women and men.

+1. :p

I thoroughly enjoyed my first experience in a naked spa situation at Casa Velas Boutique Hotel this past year. Showering and saunaing with just men in a clothing optional situation was new to me as an born an bred American. I know that if I had the desire, I would have been able to do the same with my 'wife' or 'girlfriend' and then who knows from there. As a gay man, I happened to be enjoying the spa services with some men we met beforehand and had no problem with the nudity aspect, as it was actually a little intriguing and invigorating for all of us. There was no partner swapping or anything like that, it was just nice to be free and accepted in every way.

I think the question here should be "Why do Americans get so hung up about this"

:D

+1 ^

Why do you think the OP is American?

:td: Did you read the OP's location?