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-   -   Summer Expansion, New Cities, Routes, Frequency (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frontier-airlines-frontier-miles-program/1189955-summer-expansion-new-cities-routes-frequency.html)

MikeFromMKE Mar 6, 2011 10:23 am

Thanks for the update Knope! I would imagine this shift to O&D scheduling will continue for MCI. It just isn't convienient to run a large east-west connecting hub there especially when they have DEN and MKE. They'll probably continue to use it for North-South connections though (I'll certainly be using it until they start AUS-MKE :D).

Also nice to see more A319 routes out of MCI.

JeffP Mar 6, 2011 4:08 pm


Originally Posted by knope2001 (Post 15984265)
Additional updates to the MCI schedule were loaded, and this finally makes the flow at MCI "flow" correctly.


MCI-SEA-MCI is staying E190 and leaves MCI at about 2:35pm, returning about 9:45pm.

I just booked the morning MCI-SEA flight last night for a trip this summer and now find out that is an afternoon flight. Kind of messes up my first day of the trip. Thanks for the update so I can change my plans if possible.

BlueHorseShoe2000 Mar 13, 2011 12:02 pm

Delta retaliation
 
It seems Delta is less than thrilled with Frontier's plans to launch MCI-MSP service.

Taking a page from the old Northwest play book, Delta has announced that it will start MCI-BOS/CMH/MSY and OMA-DCA on June 6, 2011.

In response, Frontier has up-gauged MCI-BOS to an A319.

As an interesting side note, Republic aircraft will be flying MCI-CMH/MSY and OMA-DCA under the Delta Commection banner.

With the exception of SAT, Frontier will have now have non-stop competition on all of it's MCI routes this summer.

MikeFromMKE Mar 13, 2011 6:59 pm


Originally Posted by BlueHorseShoe2000 (Post 16027036)
In response, Frontier has up-gauged MCI-BOS to an A319.

It's good to see them stick to their guns. Upgauging will hopefully allow them to keep their CASM lower than Delta and match fares. It is funny that some of these routes might experience an LCC effect where F9 is the entrenched carrier and will match fares of the new guy. Will be interesting to see how this all plays out.

knope2001 Mar 13, 2011 8:23 pm


Originally Posted by BlueHorseShoe2000 (Post 16027036)
Taking a page from the old Northwest play book, Delta has announced that it will start MCI-BOS/CMH/MSY and OMA-DCA on June 6, 2011.

I've heard that Delta was kind of ticked to discover Frontier was ending MCI-CMH because they picked that route specifically because it was a Frontier market. I was also told that Delta was likely to change that to MCI-AUS instead of MCI-CMH, but apparently they are sticking with their plan.

Here's how the nonstop schedules look

MCI-BOS
9:55am Delta (70-seat CR7)
2:55pm Frontier (136-seat A319)
6:00pm Delta (70-seat CR7)

BOS-MCI
6:55am Delta (70-seat CR7)
3:00pm Delta (70-seat CR7)
7:30pm Frontier (136-seat A319)

MCI-MSY
8:35am Delta (50-seat ERJ)
9:10am Frontier (99-seat E190) does not operate Tuesday/Thursday/Saturday

MSY-MCI
10:50am Delta (50-seat ERJ)
11:35am Frontier (99-seat E190) does not operate Tuesday/Thursday/Saturday

OMA-DCA
7:00am Delta (76-seat E175)
7:35am Frontier (76-seat E170)
4:05pm Frontier (76-seat E170)

DCA-OMA
11:30am Frontier (76-seat E170)
5:30pm Delta (76-seat E175)
7:59pm Frontier (76-seat E170)

I'm not especially sure that Frontier will succeed on MCI-MSP...the connections at MCI are such that MCI-MSP-MCI will need to live on mostly local traffic, and Delta has a serious advantage of frequency (6x) and entrenchment. But I'm glad that they are not flinching and pulling MCI-MSP in the hopes that Delta will pull back their attack.

BlueHorseShoe2000 Mar 14, 2011 1:02 am


Originally Posted by knope2001 (Post 16029338)
I'm not especially sure that Frontier will succeed on MCI-MSP...the connections at MCI are such that MCI-MSP-MCI will need to live on mostly local traffic, and Delta has a serious advantage of frequency (6x) and entrenchment. But I'm glad that they are not flinching and pulling MCI-MSP in the hopes that Delta will pull back their attack.

FWIW, I had heard from a pretty reliable source that Midwest had plans to add mainline MCI-MSP and MCI-PHL.

I'm not sure what happened with MSP (the route apparently made it onto some preliminary internal schedules), but PHL was planned to start in summer 2008 but the huge increase in oil changed Midwest's expansion plans.

Starting MSP now was definately an interesting choice. Delta's response is vintage Northwest.

BlueHorseShoe2000 Mar 14, 2011 1:08 am


Originally Posted by knope2001 (Post 16029338)
I was also told that Delta was likely to change that to MCI-AUS instead of MCI-CMH, but apparently they are sticking with their plan.

You're correct. Delta will also be starting MCI-AUS this summer (one flight per day).

knope2001 Mar 14, 2011 4:59 am


Originally Posted by BlueHorseShoe2000 (Post 16030364)
You're correct. Delta will also be starting MCI-AUS this summer (one flight per day).

Do you know the timing of that one? Delta loaded MCI-MSY/BOS/CMH and OMA-DCA, but MCI-AUS iisn't out there yet.

BlueHorseShoe2000 Mar 14, 2011 12:43 pm


Originally Posted by knope2001 (Post 16030823)
Do you know the timing of that one? Delta loaded MCI-MSY/BOS/CMH and OMA-DCA, but MCI-AUS iisn't out there yet.

I was told that it would be loaded sometime this week.

FWIW, it's being reported on airliners.net that Delta will be adding MCI-AUS as well.

The message from Delta couldn't be more clear. Who do you think blinks first?

MostlyAir Mar 14, 2011 12:48 pm


Originally Posted by BlueHorseShoe2000 (Post 16033147)
I was told that it would be loaded sometime this week.

FWIW, it's being reported on airliners.net that Delta will be adding MCI-AUS as well.

The message from Delta couldn't be more clear. Who do you think blinks first?

Yeh I've just heard that Delta will be pulling MCI-CMH in favor of MCI-AUS. Dumb, good way to prove that this is a predatory move....

But this may be wrong, we'll have to see what officially happens.

8C4IOW Mar 14, 2011 5:02 pm


Originally Posted by BlueHorseShoe2000 (Post 16033147)
I was told that it would be loaded sometime this week.

FWIW, it's being reported on airliners.net that Delta will be adding MCI-AUS as well.

The message from Delta couldn't be more clear. Who do you think blinks first?

I was hoping that the relationship between Frontier and Delta was mending and a code share between the two would happen, I guess they still dislike all things Frontier.

I'm sure Delta wasn't happy when Frontier added Provo along with MCI-MSP routes.

Frontier will be the first to blink, especially if fuel stays high. I don't think they have the financing to blow through routes that aren't profitable (10-K should be released this week.) The fix fee side can only subsides so much.

MikeFromMKE Mar 14, 2011 7:45 pm


Originally Posted by 8C4IOW (Post 16034818)
Frontier will be the first to blink, especially if fuel stays high. I don't think they have the financing to blow through routes that aren't profitable (10-K should be released this week.) The fix fee side can only subsides so much.

On a few of the routes, probably. They might steal a few people especially if they lower fares, but 1x ERJ will fill up quick and is a sure money loser if they depress fares considerably. F9 still has a CASM advantage on these routes and Ex-MCI are the incumbent carrier. The arm-chair CEO in me says they'll stick to their guns and see how things play out this round, but I doubt we'll see MKE-SLC any time soon.

BlueHorseShoe2000 Mar 19, 2011 11:15 am


Originally Posted by knope2001 (Post 16030823)
Do you know the timing of that one? Delta loaded MCI-MSY/BOS/CMH and OMA-DCA, but MCI-AUS iisn't out there yet.

Delta has loaded MCI-AUS. 1x daily. MCI-CMH is reduced to 1x daily. Both CMH and AUS appear to be early afternoon departures.

knope2001 Mar 19, 2011 7:36 pm

I'm hearing now that MCI-BOS will be reduced to 1x, but that MCI-LAX will get 1x. By the time this is done, perhaps Delta will put an RJ on MKE-RHI while they're at it.

FYI, since the combination of Delta and Northwest, DL is larger than Frontier at Kansas City, and the new United (UA+CO) will be close to Frontier's size depending on how much F9 and UA/CO expand or contract schedules. Here's January MCI market share:

42.2% Southwest
15.5% Delta
10.6% Frontier
9.1% American
7.9% United
7.2% USAirways
5.0% Continental
2.2% AirTran

Delta currently has 29 flights to 7 cities...the main domestic hubs plus LGA...so one can probably make cases pro and con as to what's going on here. On the one hand DL is a big MCI player so expanding to more point-to-point destinations makes reasonable sense. On the other hand, by virtue of their massive size they are a big player most everywhere, and MCI is really no more special or important to Delta than counltess other spoke cities.

Although I think DL's position in MCI could be used to justify this sudden new interest, I don't think anyone honestly believes this is anything other than trying to put heat to Frontier in retaliation for MCI-MSP and potentially other plans Frontier is considering.

BlueHorseShoe2000 Mar 20, 2011 2:15 am


Originally Posted by knope2001 (Post 16066389)
I'm hearing now that MCI-BOS will be reduced to 1x, but that MCI-LAX will get 1x. By the time this is done, perhaps Delta will put an RJ on MKE-RHI while they're at it.

I heard that OMA-LAX is now under consideration as well.

With the exception of AUS, Delta could make a strong case that all the point-to-point flying added involve strong Delta stations as well (BOS, CMH, and LAX are already focus cities; MSY and DCA already have some point-to-point routes).

However, Delta didn't really take an interest in MCI or OMA until Frontier had the "nerve" to add MSP flights. It's clear that these flights are meant to send a clear message to Frontier.


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