Stumblefoot

My travel schedule is about to increase significantly back up over 50k miles per year. After several years as both Ascent & Summit, I'm thinking of moving my business to another airline. Why? Because the miles that I earn on frontier are not worth nearly as much as other airlines whom have international partnerships. And, while Stretch is nice, it doesn't compare to first class, especially when the middle seats are so frequently occupied.

United isn't an option, because service remains poor, the former Continental website is horrific, and first class upgrades are virtually impossible to get unless you are a 1K. So, I'm looking for another provider that offers a status challenge I can earn quickly and that offers non-stop options to Chicago, LA, Dallas, Atlanta, and New York. I'm thinking American at this point as first class upgrades should be easier to attain from DEN.

So, talk me off the ledge and convince me why I should stay in the fold.

MikeFromMKE

Based on your needs, American is probably your best bet for nonstops. They even have a club in DEN. Although for only 50k a year, you are somewhere in the middle at AA, instead of being on top with Frontier. And with Frontier you get nonstops all over the map, and don't have to connect at ORD or DFW to get to ATL.

I myself am thinking about jumping over to American, but it looks like my travel will drop off this year fairly significantly so it might not matter for me either way. But being MKE based vs DEN based is a huge difference. I think Frontier is a wonderful value and if I were DEN based I would stick with them.

btr

I can't speak specifically to other airlines, since my prior experience was with UA, but I will say this: the customer service at F9, for all the bad things we're apt to think about 'em from time to time, is amazing.

I've said this somewhere else, but in 18 months of flying with F9 now, I've had 3 flight segments that got messed up: one was my fault, one was WX, and one was MX. In all three cases they bent over backwards to get me on another flight. I have yet to speak to an agent of any kind that wasn't just plain wonderful. Yes, you run into folks in a bad mood from time to time - we're all human, but they don't take it out on us.

You sound like international travel is important to you, which is not the case for me. That's a tough one to weigh, but for me, I put a LOT of weight on attitute -- good attitude. In my book, F9 wins.

Now come down off that ledge before you slip and fall.

IllinoisMan

You're right, Stretch might be sort of unique but it isn't anywhere as good as first class. I really like FL's business class though, you don't get much in terms of food but at least its cheap and comfortable. Btw - doesn't AA have a lounge at DEN?

knope2001

With UA being a non-starter for you, AA is probably the best option. However:

--Flying to ATL is a connection in ORD or DFW
--Flying to NYC is a connection in ORD or DFW
--Flying to LAX may well become a connection in DFW, because DEN-LAX is flown by AA Eagle, and the big planned cuts in bankruptcy court will likely put non-hub flying like DEN-LAX in danger

At about 50k per year you'll just make mid-tier status. If you occasionally fly somebody else to get a nonstop...perhaps to have more time with the family, or to make your business plans "work out", or simply because of the wear and tear on you...you'll fall short of the 50k threshold and be in the bottom FF tier. From what I've heard, the big airlines will only comp lowest-status FF status to Frontier Summit, so you might never hit mid-tier.

The downside of the big international airlines is that it's very tough to be "anybody" with them unless you rack up the big international miles. Lower-tier status is much less beneficial, especially if you don't quite hit the threshold to achieve mid-tier.

On Frontier, Summit is it. There are benefits that a big airline can give elites (even low-tier elites) that Frontier cannot, such the possibility of upgrading to a true first-class seat. However when you need a rule bent, or you need to get through to a res agent, or you need some extra TLC in rebooking when your flight is canceled, you're a big fish in a small pond with Frontier. When you need a big airline to come through for you, you're a little fish in a small pond.

lougord99

You didn't mention how firm your travel plans usually are. Frontier's no fee for change of plans is potentially a huge money saver.

Also, Frontier's E jets are so much nicer than AA Eagle planes.

zdave

I'm on the fence too. I just made Summit last year and have no status elsewhere. This year I'm likely to be traveling a bunch to the Carolinas, and they have no flight options that put me anywhere close. Additionally, they've dropped service to SAT and reduced OKC to once daily last time I looked. There is just less service or less convenient service to markets I visit. I'm going to miss all the benefits everybody discussed, but I am not interested in riding in E- all the way to the east coast and back.

khoward

I almost jumped off last year, but decided to give them another chance and made Ascent status for this year. It has made a huge difference in my travel style and I love it. Not only are their people usually fantastic to deal with, I can get where I need to go on F9 non-stop (huge!) and the price is competitive or even lower than UA or SW. The 24 hours in advance upgrade to free stretch seating is awesome and I have always been able to get it, as are the $0 bag fees. The priority security line and boarding perks are great too. I don't usually watch the TV provided, but that is appreciated too. I guess I can live without the cookie, but that is/was a little perk for everyone.

Remember, with Frontier elite status, you are the much bigger fish in the pond. On UA or AA, you're just another elite with lots of people having more status ahead of you and getting the 1st Class seat that you want. On SW, you're another cow in the cattle line until you take 25 one way flights in a year, and even then you get only a few of the F9 perks.

The F9 elite program is a truly unique product, with the 15,000 mile attainment, and it fits perfectly with my business travel and where I need to go. Perhaps you might travel enough to have elite status on more than one carrier. With what I have so far and planned for 2012, I would get up to around 20-22,000 qualifying miles on US or SW for 2012 and I would be nowhere with either of them.

Us F9 elites have to hope that Frontier keeps its independence, doesn't slash perks to the bone and maintains its high service levels (planes, schedules and people) out of DEN. I will do all I can to support them and I truly appreciate what a difference they have in the Denver market.

CreditMadeEZ

What use of the international partnerships are you planning on? If you just want miles for redemption options, use credit card bonuses to acquire them.

Would you have enough status to get upgraded enough? I expect it would depend on whether you have the flexibility to take the flights that would let you get upgraded.

BTW, although there are some nice folks with American, with AA going through bankruptcy, folks are a little edgier now. Maybe you should wait until they've quit going over the edge before you think about going over. :-)

ByrdluvsAWACO

Stumblefoot,

I'm going to talk you into jumping off the ledge.

While I like F9, their FFP is a complete dead end. As you mentioned the lack of intl partners seriously devalues any miles earned and the elite bonus is rather poor.

The 50k+ of travel you're estimating will give you the perks of AA platinum/OW Sapphire status, along with the 100% elite bonus.

I could go on addressing some of the negatives of F9's current status, but I'll leave that for another thread.

nddomer04

Although DEN-LAX is flown by Eagle, LAX is most certainly a hub for American. AA's "Cornerstone Strategy" includes their 5 hubs (DFW, MIA, NYC, ORD, and LAX)

I am an AA Lifetime Plat (2 Million Miles), and have just started flying Frontier this year since I relocated to Denver. There are good things about Frontier, especially for a family. When I fly with my wife and young children, upgrades are a non-issue. Plus, the stretch seating is nice, since we're not allowed in Exit Row until the kids are much older. But, I still fly AA when I can, and I use the Admiral's Club @ Concourse A. Since I cannot redeem on Frontier for exotic destinations/international travel, I am still keeping my AA MasterCard and flying AA whenever convenient.

knope2001

I knew that on other boards it wouldn't take long for someone to say "but LAX is a hub". I underestimated this board, apparently!

Just about all of AA / AA* flying operates from one of those five markets, with some remaining SJU service.

AA* is definitely being shrunk. In addition to San Juan reductions, there will necessarily be flying reductions which affect some or all of those five cornerstone markets. Just because a route serves one of those places does not make it immune.

Of those five markets, Los Angeles seems to be the one where AA* has the least connecting flow, and so routes largely have to primarily stand on local traffic alone. Unlike airports with a lot of connecting flow, they could cut unprofitable AA* flying without excessivly harming the overall operation. And a market like LAX-DEN, with CRJ-700's up against Southwest, United and Frontier mainline, might well be a bloody one for them.

Commonly when an airline retrenches, they fortify themselves in places they are strong, and retreat in places where they have been fighting an uphill battle. They dominate DFW and MIA, and have a huge investment in a connecting operation at ORD. At JFK they have a large international portfolio, and only a small number of AA* flights...so even if they wanted to cut AA* flying there, there isn't much there to cut. At LAX, they have a solid amount of AA* flying, much of which flies wingtip to wingtip against much larger mainline competitors. That include two LCC's focused on beathing the crap out of eachother. And that's why it wouldn't surprise me in the least if CR7/ERJ markets like LAX-IAH, LAX-DEN, LAX-ELP, LAX-ABQ and LAX-SLC, end up on the chopping block.

Of course this may not happen. But we've seen legacy airlines try to muscle into their way into markets dominated by others by putting in a business-friendly schedule of small jets. It can be a costly endeavor, and these sorts of efforts are often ditched during difficult times like those AA is currently enduring.

Stumblefoot

WOW! This has been fantastic. Your responses are exactly what I was looking for. Many great points-of-view, both pro and con. Below are my thoughts after reviewing your feedback.

Especially for flyers out of DEN.

So true!

It is a very good product. If F9 offered a product like FL's, it'd be a no-brainer for me.

You are so right. There's no doubt that I'd make the mid-tier level, but I certainly remember how different the service was between 1K and Prem. Exec. on UA. It was like night and day.

An excellent point I totally hadn't considered. As a consultant, plans change frequently. Therefore, as a Summit, I'll be able to keep Client air expenses low.

So true. The Carolina's are a huge hole in their network. Thankfully, those two states are not on my radar at this time.

Your entire post was spot on. And, if I'm going to stay in the fold, then the proof will be in the pudding over the coming months with your statement above. It's critically important to me.

From what I've learned, upgrades on AA out of DEN are pretty easy to secure as most of the flights I'd be on, their Elites would be on the counter flight out of their hub. Of course, Thursday and Friday evening returns to DEN may be tricky if I had to connect through ORD or DFW.

Really good point. I used to really like UA. That is until they went through the bankruptcy process. It was the miserable call center that turned me off initially, but the work slow downs and poor cabin service were the straws that broke this camel's back and brought me to F9 originally.

I know. It really shows you how important a FFP is to the true frequent flyer. I don't think F9 truly understands the value of loyalty and how a FFP can cement it.

Clearly the issue I am not valuing properly is all of the non-stop flying out of DEN by Frontier. While my two biggest markets are going to be Chicago & Dallas and easily served by frequent AA flights, I know that long-term, I'll get frustrated pretty quick with the time required by hub connections. For example, DEN-LGA on F9 is always going to be around 3 3/4 hours whereas AA will most likely run me at least 5 1/2. Those minutes and hours will add up pretty quickly.

I'm off! Thanks for the help everyone. I'm going to stay in the fold for now and see what transpires over the next 6 - 9 months. If the FFP fails to add additional value, then I'll re-examine my decision, transition to another carrier in 2013, and cash in my miles for a family trip to Punta Cana, or back to Costa Rica.