CDG -- why the bad rep?
 

I made my first trip through CDG two weeks ago (T3), and was later surprised, when going through random FT searches (bored at work!) to see this airport turn up so regularly at the top of many "world's worst airport" lists. My own journey through CDG was pretty quick and uneventful, and seemed to have good access to public transit, SNCF, and taxi service. Can someone advise why CDG has such a poor reputation amongst travellers?

You must've not had the pleasure of being bussed through the endless maze only to be dropped off kind of close to the steps back inside while it's raining. CDG just plain sucks.

I have to admit it is my least favorite airport. Your clothes reak of smoke, screening is a mess and I really don't like their escalators. Good duty free though

CDG isn't that bad, when compared to the old terminals at JFK.... :(

Interesting replies! I suppose that I should be grateful that my own experience seems to be atypical of most travellers'.

Not to be unpatriotic, but I always thought that YYZ was simply terrible, and especially when it still had that horrible three-terminal layout. NAS also seems to have sanitation problems EVERY time I travel through it, and I can't think of anything more off-putting than the reek of overflowing toilets when I walk through a terminal. :eek:

Well, I really do not know why others have complained in the past about CDG but for me, I prefer other airports In Europe unless you are on AF for a domestic flight. VIE is pretty good, IMHO, as is MUC and AMS, but I am not enamored with FRAF. Of course, the real winners are SIN and HKG. :)

Having part of a newly constructed terminal collapse is a great way to ensure your placement on the worst airports around.

My experience in 1992 is that its overcrowded and cramped. Built for much less traffic than it currently serves. My Father flies there yearly and pretty much agrees.

Because it reminds me of "Howl"
 

I've been through CDG several times this year. It always induces a feeling reminiscent of the opening of Alan Ginsberg's poem "Howl": "I saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by madness, starving hysterical naked".

Many, maybe even a majority, of flights involve going from gate to bus to a leisurely tour of the airport concrete to eventually arrive at your plane somewhere out there. On a recent flight from T2E both bathrooms were being cleaned at the same time for the fifteen minutes before boarding the set of buses to go to the plane. For many flights you have to transfer from building to building and leave/reenter security. Try finding the navette/bus zones for going to hotels near the airport if you have to stay overnight for a transfer. Many of the departure areas have fewer seats than passengers on the flight.

Paris is Paris, OK, but CDG is CDG...

davidcalgary29 - You flew through T3, which is a little terminal next to the RER station. That's not the vast majority of passengers use.

T1 is a crowded, dark place that is pretty much like a 3rd world country. Lines everywhere, the place stink, no seat to sit down, long elevator lines just to get up to the parking garage, and require a shuttle bus to get to the RER station, or a different shuttle to get to the TGV station at T2.

T2 is basically 6 terminals (or 7 if you count 2F1 and 2F2 as two seperate ones) with no airside connection among them. One either wait for shuttle bus or have to get into France (even if connecting non-Schengen to non-Schengen) and walk. Many planes, including widebodies, use remote gates that require busing between the terminal and the planes themselves. Immigration and security lines can be ridiculously long. The shuttle bus stop at the TGV station serve all terminals and hotels with JUST ONE SINGLE LANE for all transfering passengers. All that when the roof wasn't collapsing on you. During busy times, passengers who arrive at CDG 3 hours prior to an international flight often can barely make the flight, or the flight has to wait for them.

Another example. A month ago, my CO flight from 2A was delayed for near 40 minutes. Why? Because of the design of the terminal. An AF 744 pulled up at an adjacent gate to disembark its passengers. They have to block all the gates between that gate and the immigration hall during that time. It's absolutely ridiculous.

One of many bad experiences at CDG.
Did have broken toes so needed a wheelchair to make my connection IAD-CDG-MAD waited over 100 minutes on the plane :confused: till it showed up, seems they only have 2 of those to cover terminal 2.
Missed my connection as we did have to wait another 30 minutes for the special van to transfer me from 2b to 2c if my memory is correct.
Very bad service :td:
One thing i like to add the service at IAD AF was great ^

What a precise review of CDG. I agree with your comments! :)

Another reason:
CDG = (suit)Case Definitely Gone

Bag sorting machines seem to break a lot.

CDG is my home airport and I have to agree that all the assesments that lean towards calling CDG horrible are spot on. I can't count the times that my bags don't show up and I get them day(s) later. Sometimes it just easier. Having to fly out of there all the time is tedious at best.

Yes, that one terminal is close to the public transit but that's about the only thing that the whole airport has going for it.

I've only been to T2, but, except for bussing, I don't really have any complaints. Not the best airport in the world, but it doesn't bother me to use it either.

I've only been through CDG twice, but it immediately struck me as the ugliest place in the world. As you arrive on the bus, it's like you're being transported to some dark, dank nuclear reactor building. Then, doors/gates where choosing a wrong one, even by a single digit, will take you to a very wrong place. Everything sort of in a 1960's "this might be trendy and cool" design, but which rapidly came to look outdated. And, can you believe it, people working at money changing/ticket issue/transportation desks, who don't speak *any* English, at all? or care to try and help you?

ugh.

Agreed. You had better not require much verbal assistance at CDG unless you speak French, IMHO. But of couse, the language issue could be an extensive, acromonious separate thread.

Is there any other airport that you can tell which terminal people are talking about simply by listening to what they are complaining about? I can go thru the posts and I know "that's T1" or "that's T2" even if the poster doesn't say.

I was thinking the same thing. The whole airport sucks but the problems with T1 are not the same as with T2. Must have been difficult for the architects/designers to come up with so many (and different) annoyances, but they did it.

CDG may be way up there, but I suspect that there are more complaints about IAD.

And the signs... the few that are vaguely point hopefully in the right direction and then vanish. Security was a nightmare before it was a problem at LHR - god knows what the Nov 7th changes will do to it :eek: Every plane is late (ok, maybe that is just my experience, but I am running at 100% late!), buses always go in the wrong direction (ie you want to go 2D->2C, but you have to go via 2E,F,A,and B), and if connecting there, you feel like you've toured the airport by coach by the time you depart. OTOH - I've got to say, parts of T2 are nicely designed, light and spacious. And other parts are not. And you can usually see the entire Airbus family while doing your coach tours of the furthest reaches of the airport, which is nice. Oh yes, did I mention the information boards bearing no relationship to what is going on?

Hee! Ok, I've got to admit that I was misled into taking the wrong shuttle bus, nonplussed by the bus-from-terminal-to-airplane "system", and puzzled by the lack of signage, but merely thought "what the heck? I'm in Paris!", and shrugged it off. If I was a bit more of a masochist, I'd book my next French vacation through T1 or T2 just so that I could see what the fuss was about. :D

I transferred from a MAA-CDG flight to a CDG-LHR flight at the end of August and walked (didn't realize there was an airside shuttle at the time.) The immigration officer didn't stamp my passport, and when I went back through immigration to get to my connecting flight, the officer there checked my name off a list. So it is possible to transit landside at CDG without entering the EU.

Still, it is a horrible, horrible airport. I needed to find the post office and a friendly information person told me it was right down in the next terminal—which ended up being about a 15 minute walk (and I walk fast.) Would've just held onto the letter if I knew that since I had a fairly tight connection!

Because of the attitude of many of the employees. I can accept rain, buses, lost luggage and even structural collapses, but arrogant rude employees are too much.

It's my considered opinion that it's the obnoxious service people at Charles de Gaulle Airport that give the French their unwarranted reputation for rudeness. I've seen such horrific attitudes on display there. But once you get into Paris, it's a different story, in my experience.

CDG is not exactly a model of efficiency, for sure. But the new train station is nice, although the automatic ticket vending machines never work for me.

And as far as the language thing--I love these comments such as, "Can you believe they didn't speak a word of English?" How about this instead: "Can you believe those tourists show up in our country and don't speak a single word of French?" I can sure imagine people here saying that about foreign tourists.

I've always found that attempting to speak a few words in French goes a LONG way. Just expecting that they should speak English can get you the cold shoulder.

We're talking about an AIRPORT, not about Paris. I don't think I should be required to learn French / Mandarin / Russian etc just to be allowed to transit through CDG, PEK, Moscow etc.

"Can you believe those tourists show up in our country and don't speak a single word of French?" Why not? I'd rather hear a sincere "Thank you" with smile instead of a quick insincere "Danke schön". It's the attitude that counts for me, not the language.

So what would you call the area between the terminals if it's not French or EU territory? I don't think you would have been allowed to transfer landside if you hadn't had the right credentials. Whether they stamp your passport or not is a different matter I think.

HTB.

True dat.

Okay, more specifically I transited through French territory but without officially entering the EU. That's practically what one does on an airside transfer anyways: you're obviously on that country's land, but not cleared into the country. Only difference here is that I was transferring through a non-secure landside zone that I could have potentially left instead of staying in a secure airside zone.

The first immigration officer told me that since I was in transit I would have to stay within the airport (of course I could've entered the EU if I wanted to, but there was no reason to at that point.) I assume that if I didn't show up at my connecting terminal and get checked off there, or ask immigration to process me into the country, the French police would probably have been out looking for me.

I had an almost identical experience at CDG. No stamp, was actually outside the terminal at one stage having a ciggie. I still say I've been to France though. ;)
I thought CDG was OK. Lost bag, missed flight but nothing that was too inconvenient. About the language thing, I was told that in France you'll get a better reaction if you ask in French "Do you speak English?". I tried it at CDG and it seemed to work. Even got a few smiles.

CDG is truly Europe's most hideous hub and (not the first time I've said this on FT) the only airport I know of where the Frenchness of the design was placed far and above the safety and comfort of its users!

That said, some aspects of CDG are wonderful! CDG1 is an architectural masterpiece that should be frozen in time and not used anymore!!!!! The whole 60s future "Jetsons" look of CDG1 is a joy to behold and I love the bit where I queue behind a couple of hundred SQ passengers to get on a BD flight to LHR while panicking CDG employees try to sort the queue out!

That's a real coincidence-I know a French guy who flew into ORD and was very upset that no one spoke French. What an ego-centric!

As a fellow canadian, I can sympathize with your opinion of YYZ, which for me ranks second from the bottom just ahead of CDG. In all fairness, I used to think YYZ was bad until I had to start travelling through CDG.

Most of the comments of this thread are true, but I can reinforce some in the following manner. I can state without hesitation that lack of multilingual-speaking staff at this international airport is compounded by a serious attitude problem with the staff pretty much everywhere and implicit attitude that you should speak French at all cost. French is my mother tongue, and I have no difficulty understanding the remarks of the staff at the airport. I mean, there is attitude and then there is Attitude!

I find it completely unacceptable to have french-only staff at the RER station. Gee! That's a no brainer that you should make sure you have ticket agents that can communicate with the persons transiting there. Have you ever withnessed a family of tired japanese tourists trying to buy an RER ticket from a ticket collector? Or Russians? Never mind the fact that the imbecile civil servant spoke miserable anything (including French!), she decided to take a 15minute break despite the fact she manned the only wicket open at that time! The attitude from the security agent checking the actual tickets was hardly better! Try asking him for help: "You need to ask at the wicket!". For cryin' out loud! this is an entry point for international travellers and all their f*****g signs are in French only! Then, the mecanical stairs don't work. This, of course, after the frustration of finding your way to the station following ill-placed and often confusing french-only signs (there is one for the shuttle that, if followed properly, will take you to a washroom.). Waiting for this shuttle is hardly better, with completely confusing signs: there were two "You are here" dots on the signpost, and no indication of the direction in which the shuttle (running a loop between terminal) was actually going.

It is hard enough to find luggage carts, you cannot take them in the elevators (which are themselves hard enough to find)! If that were not enough, there is clearly insufficient space at checkin so queues for various destinations and various airlines often get helplessly tangled. (In attempting to checkin for an AC flight to YYZ, I found myself in the queue for an AA flight to MIA.) The passport control officer (there is in my experience a single one unless you are travelling from the AF-terminal - whichever number it is) is not to be hurried by the long lineups of people impatiently waiting for their flights! Why should he bother? They are just tourists!

Have you ever boarded the RER with luggage? Why in Heaven's name did they not make the RER station platforms level with the train platforms? You're stuck hauling your luggage over this 30cm step and God bless you if you have to transfer... That, of course, assumes you have kept your ticket so that you can actually get out of the RER!

Of course, at the airport itself, once airside, it is next to impossible to take a decent walk to kill all the time remaining. (The idea of seating comfortably somewhere must have been originated from a non-French citizen, 'cuz these guys just ignore the concept.) The whole friggin' terminal is artificially partitioned and you must take stairs to get from one part to the other, lugging your stuff through a usually disgusting cafeteria area full of cigarette smoke.

Transfer is hardly better. I had last summer to transfer in CDG from my arrival gate to my departure gate (AMS->CDG->MAD, EU-only connection), which happen to be identical to my arrival gate. Same plane, same gate, different flight number. Of course, I had to walk for quite a while to get landside out of the dry zone, walk back (again landside) to the correct security area, check again at security and come back precisely where I started. 20 minutes of running and security checks for nothing. The security agent decided that it was suspicious to carry two laptop batteries and kept me waiting 5 minutes for a supplementary inspection.

The whole organization of CDG is designed for those who already know the system by heart and don't really need any indication, i.e. mostly the French residents. CDG is to be avoided at all costs; for all the bad things about YYZ (and I agree it is bad), CDG is worse.

That, my friend, is precisely the problem. A design worthy of a Hanna-Barbera cartoon with no place for practicality.

Yours has got to be one of the most truthful posts ever written and by far one of my favs. Aside from what you have so eloquently said, the aboslutely worst part for me is to come to CDG in a fully loaded 777 and then have to board a BUS. What is this, communist Russia in the 60s as we wait for bread?!

The uphill, downhill people movers through the "stems" are bad. But for all the faults of T1 - and there are many already listed, but lets add having only one food vendor near the gates of each stem - I found FRA even more confusing, and without AC in mid-July. It hadn't been on my itinerary, but a ground hold at ORD meant my original 6pmish UA flight to CDG left without me, so I was re-routed via the 10pm to FRA. Coming off 4 extra hours at IAD looking for a normally priced meal (thank your favorite deity for Potbelly) the FRA sauna was a nice bonus.

I'm flying out of T2 to the US on 7 November. What November 7 changes????

Thanks. Guess I'd better plan to get to CDG even earlier than usual. Expletive deleted.

I'd heard about this before leaving before Paris, and consequently didn't attempt to speak English to any Parisien/ne at any time. In fact, the only English I spoke in France was to my friends a couple of "Bosnian" beggars near the Seine, who approached me first. :D As a bonus, no one made fun of my Central Canadian accent or attempted to reply in English, which would have been the typical response in my old home, Ottawa. ^

I did find the RER system to be somewhat...bizarre, but I had just been broken down by the London tube a week before (those same awful ticket-grabbing turnstiles!), and was prepared for anything. In my case, I wasted half an hour attempting to find an open wicket at the Gare du Nord for my return trip to CDG. I just couldn't understand why I had to leave the station itself in order to buy a train ticket, but just chalked it up to inexperience at the time. I did see that most travellers were simply asking one of the many uniformed military personnel in the station for directions, and took that as a sign that I wasn't going to get much help from SNCF staff. :)

This does bring up a question -- I was travelling LIS-CDG, and couldn't find a customs/immigration official ANYWHERE when I deplaned, and consequently didn't get my passport stamped. Was I in France illegally? Oops!

Unfortunately, no. :D There is no immigration check between LIS and CDG as both are within the Schengen zone, and there is no customs check because both belong to a EU member state.

Thanks! I did wonder about that as I did go through an immigration check at LIS after travelling from LHR. Is the UK not part of the Schengen zone, then?