Jan 19, 2017, 10:33 am
Last edit by: ffay005
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When seeking claims from AY, use this form: https://www.finnair.com/int/gb/infor...vices/feedbackAY will not accept claims by email, phone or in person.
Past decisions of the Court of Justice of the European Union (CJEU) relating to Regulation 261/2004 (by judgment date in chronological order):
European Commission's Interpretative Guidelines (note that this policy document is persuasive, but only the CJEU's interpretation of Regulation 261/2004 is authoritative and binding): http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-conte...XC0615%2801%29. National courts do not have to follow the European Commission's Interpretative Guidelines (but are obliged to follow the CJEU's case-law). For example, although the European Commission takes the view that 'missed connecting flights due to significant delays at security checks or passengers failing to respect the boarding time of their flight at their airport of transfer do not give entitlement to compensation' (para 4.4.7 of the Interpretative Guidelines), the Edinburgh Sheriff Court took a different view in Caldwell v easyJet. Sheriff T Welsh QC held that 'the facts proved can properly be characterised as denied boarding because of the operational inadequacies of Easyjet ground staff’s management of the Easyjet queues on 14 September 2014 and their failure to facilitate passage through security check, customs and passport control when asked, in circumstances, where it was obvious the passengers were in danger of missing their flight'.
When AY+ Flight Reason AY Offered AY explanation Won/Lost, How, Time
Summer13 no status (HKG-)HEL-LHR Prior to landing, LHR was closed as the fire services there were unavailable, so the flight was diverted and landed in LTN, where passengers were offloaded. However, the plane then flew from LTN to LHR with luggage in the hold, so passengers had to make their own way to LHR to retrieve their luggage (as AY provided no ground transport arrangements), eventually arriving at LHR and reclaiming baggage over 6 hours later than the scheduled arrival time. Requested 600€ plus transport and phone call costs incurred, but AY only agreed to reimburse transport and phone call costs AY claimed that 'the delay of this flight happened in extraordinary circumstances' Filed claim through ESCP in the County Court in England. AY contested the claim. The Court ruled against AY. In its judgment, the Court cited CJEU's decision in Eglitis and Wallentin-Hermann and rejected AY's defence as the flight diversion only caused a small initial delay. AY failed to discharge its burden of proof that it took all reasonable measures, as evidenced by proper contingency plans and steps to assist passengers at LTN. The delay in arrival at LHR was significantly lengthened by this factor. AY eventually paid the damages and costs awarded by the Court.
Summer13 no status (LHR-)HEL-HKG Technical fault Requested 600€ plus phone call costs incurred, but AY only agreed to reimburse phone call costs AY initially claimed that the technical fault was not foreseeable Filed claim through ESCP in the County Court in England. AY conceded the claim and eventually paid 600€ + phone call costs + court costs.
Fall15 AYG HEL-LHR-US HEL-LHR late, miss connect 200€ voucher, reroute 3,5 hours requested 600€, re-offered 400€ due to <4 hours -> accepted.
Nov15 AYS HEL-AMS Equip swap -> rerouting 3+ hours 400€ cash (as per EC261) or 550€ voucher offered in 2 days accepted
Jan16 AYP KUO-HEL ATR crew shortage, cancelled 50€ voucher Claimed EU 261 + taxi + hotel. NO -> paid taxi+hotel -> escalated to KRIL -> NoRRA offered 250€ voucher. Accepted
Jan16 AYS WAW-HEL "extraordinary crew shortage" 50€ voucher raised to "kuluttajaoikeusneuvoja". They state that crew shortage can usually not be declared an extraordinary -> escalated to KRIL -> AY offered 150€ -> declined -> AY offers 200€ voucher -> Accepted. 8 months to resolve the matter!
Jan16 AA Platinum = OWS BKK-HEL delay, no equip combined 300€ voucher (for 2 pers) extraordinary manufacturing fault of A350 declined offer -> escalated to KRIL -> AY offered 680€ voucher / 400 cash (for 2 pers) -> declined -> KRIL decision Feb18 = AY should compensate 300€ / pax
Q1/16 ?? JFK-HEL diverted back to JFK ?? technical fail, new equip escalated to KRIL -> 600€ offered, accepted
Feb16 ?? (LHR-)HEL-PEK cancelled, re-routed, arrived at PEK with 20 hr delay and, because of this, missed seeing dying grandfather by a few hours ?? 'extraordinary circumstances' due to pilot sickness, AY refused compensation -> filed small claim in England and won (see Guardian article)
Feb16 ?? HEL-PEK 6h delay 150€ voucher manufacture fail of A350 ??
Q1/16 AYG LHR-HEL A350 broke up 50€ voucher ??
?? OWE HKG-HEL 6h delay (A350) 600€*2pers ?? 2 weeks wait only for compensation
?? ?? BKK-HEL 13h delay 600€ cash / 800€ voucher ?? Just 2 days to get compensation, accepted 800 voucher
Q1/16 ?? BKK-HEL misconnect, 6h delay 400/€550€ misconnect raised the discance to apply 600 -> offered 600€ cash / 800 voucher
Mar16 AYP PVG-HEL cancel, reroute, 12h delay 600/800€ cancel&reroute 800€ voucher accepted
?? ?? ?? cancelled, long delay 600/800 technical fault accepted
Mar16 ?? HEL-HKG 8h delay 200€ voucher extraordinary fail A350 escalated to KRIL -> no info
Nov16 OWE (LHR-)HEL-TLL overnight delay nothing NoRRA pilot shortage Claim for EUR 400 filed in the England and Wales small claims track (not ESCP), AY admitted the whole of the claim a few days before the hearing (details)
???16 AYS PEK-HEL cancelled 100/200€ sick pilot, no overtime declined -> escalated to KRIL. No info yet.
Feb17 OWE BKK-HEL-LHR 2h delay in BKK, misconnect in HEL 600€ cash / 800€ voucher ?? Submitted compensation request, AY responded around one week later, accepted 800€ voucher (details)
Feb 2017 AYP KUO-HEL 06:00 cancelled ATR shortage HEL-LHR was missed, at LHR 6 h late €400 in cash or €550 AY voucher. Returning HEL-KUO 23:40 cancelled ATR shortage rerouted to JOE, bus to KUO, at KUO 2h 40min late €250 in cash or €350 AY voucher.
Apr 2017 OWE TLL-HEL-LHR AY118 delayed from TLL-HEL "crew rest" then later, "Try Norra, not us" €400 claimed. Rejected. MCOL in UK. Disputed by AY. County Court civil case, Oxford (10/11/17) Judgement : AY was the operating carrier under EC2111/2005, compensation and costs and expenses awarded.
Apr 2017 OWE TLL-HEL-LHR AY118 delayed from TLL-HEL "crew rest" then later, "Try Norra, not us", then "Delayed due to weather" €400 claimed. Rejected. 2 seperate agencies tried but gave up on the case. European Small Claims Procedure started at Den Haag sub-district court, AY didn't defend. Judgement (11/6/2019): compensation, costs and interest awarded.
Dec 2017 AY Gold AY HEL-KOK operated by Norra canceled due to crew shortage, delay due to reroute >3 hours EUR 250 claimed. Accepted by AY and an alternative of a EUR 350 voucher offered.
May 28 2017 AYP, AY 380 KUO-HEL was cancelled due to lack of planes (admitted by Finnair - Flightradar 24 gold is an invaluable tool for this sherlockholmesing: one KUO flight was cancelled in the previous evening as OH-LKM had broken in HAM and it should have taken care of the next morning KUO-HEL flight 7:30, OH-LKP arrived late from GVA 23:40 and took off to KUO well after midnight being there 01:33, OH-LKP should have flown KUO-HEL flight 6:15 but crew rest prevented this, OH-LKP flew KUO-HEL 7:30 flight instead). Missed LHR connection. Arrived at LHR 5 h 54 min later than planned. EUR 400 or voucher of EUR 600 was offered without any resent.
Dec 2018. HEL-LPA delayed 4 hours because routine maintenance took longer than expected. Pax AY Plat. Compensation paid within 24 hours (offered €400 cash or €550 voucher).
Some more cases from earlier history can be read HERE (unfortunately only in Finnish)
List of National Enforcement Bodies (NEBs) in EU/EEA Member States and Switzerland published by the European Commission (updated: April 2018): https://ec.europa.eu/transport/sites...ent_bodies.pdf
European Commission's guidelines with criteria for determining which NEB is competent for handling complaints (updated: April 2017): https://ec.europa.eu/transport/sites...procedures.pdf
If you decide to engage a claim agency/lawyer to pursue your claim, please first read the Information Notice published by the European Commission (updated: March 2017): http://ec.europa.eu/transport/sites/...gencies_en.pdf
To file a court claim, the CJEU stated in Rehder (see above) the criteria for determining which Member State's court has jurisdiction. If you booked a package combining flight(s) and accommodation, Advocate General Sharpston stated in her Opinion in Flight Refund v Lufthansa (Case C‑94/14) at paras 9 and 59-60 that a consumer claiming compensation under Regulation 261/2004 can file a court claim in the jurisdiction where he/she habitually resides, as an alternative to filing a court claim in the jurisdiction of the airport of departure or arrival.
You can file a claim at a court with jurisdiction to rule on your case either through the national procedure or through the European Small Claims Procedure (ESCP). The ESCP is a primarily written procedure and is available where the claimant and defendant are domiciled in different EU Member States (with the exception of Denmark) for claims up to EUR 2,000 (increasing to EUR 5,000 with effect from 14 July 2017).
When seeking claims from AY, use this form: https://www.finnair.com/int/gb/infor...vices/feedbackAY will not accept claims by email, phone or in person.
Past decisions of the Court of Justice of the European Union (CJEU) relating to Regulation 261/2004 (by judgment date in chronological order):
- Sturgeon v Condor (Case C-402/07): Passengers who reach their final destination at least 3 hours late because their flight was delayed are entitled to the amount of compensation laid down in Article 7 of the Regulation.
- Wallentin-Hermann v Alitalia (Case C-549/07): ‘Extraordinary circumstances’ (which release airlines from their obligation to compensate passengers) do not include aircraft technical problems (unless the problem stems from events which, by their nature or origin, are not inherent in the normal exercise of the activity of the air carrier concerned and are beyond its actual control). See also van der Lans v KLM below.
- Rehder v Air Baltic (Case C-204/08): Passengers can file a legal claim either in the jurisdiction of the place of departure or the jurisdiction of the place of arrival
- Rodríguez v Air France (Case C-83/10): The term ‘cancellation’ in the Regulation includes the situation where the aircraft took off but had to return to the departure airport and passengers were transferred to other flights.
- Eglītis v Latvijas Republikas Ekonomikas ministrija (Case C-294/10): At the stage of organising the flight, the airline is required to provide for a certain reserve time to allow it, if possible, to operate the flight in its entirety once the extraordinary circumstances have come to an end.
- Nelson v Lufthansa (Case C-581/10): The Court reaffirmed its previous decision (Sturgeon v Condor).
- Folkerts v Air France (Case C-11/11): Passengers on directly connecting flights who arrive at their final destination at least 3 hours late are entitled to compensation.
- McDonagh v Ryanair (Case C-12/11): Even where a flight delay/cancellation is caused by ‘extraordinary circumstances’, the airline continues to be under a duty to provide care (in the form of accommodation, meals, transfers between the airport/hotel, telephone calls)
- Finnair v Lassooy (Case C–22/11): The term ‘denied boarding’ in the Regulation covers cases where boarding is denied because of overbooking, as well as other reasons.
- Moré v KLM (Case C-139/11): The time limit for filing a legal claim is based on the rules governing limitation periods in the Member State where the claim is filed.
- Rodríguez Cachafeiro v Iberia (Case C 321/11): The term ‘denied boarding’ in the Regulation includes a situation where, in the context of a single contract of carriage (PNR) on immediately connecting flights and a single check-in, an airline denies boarding to some passengers because the first flight had been delayed and it mistakenly expected those passengers not to arrive in time to board the second flight.
- Germanwings v Henning (Case C 452/13): The concept of ‘arrival time’, which is used to determine the length of the flight delay, refers to the time at which at least one of the doors of the aircraft was opened, as long as, at that moment, passengers were actually permitted to leave the aircraft.
- van der Lans v KLM (Case C-257/14): ‘Extraordinary circumstances’ (which release airlines from their obligation to compensate passengers) do not include aircraft technical problems which occur unexpectedly, which are not attributable to poor maintenance and which are also not detected during routine maintenance checks.
- Mennens v Emirates (Case C 255/15): Where passengers are downgraded on a particular flight, the ‘price of the ticket’ refers to the price of that particular flight, but if this information is not indicated on the ticket, the price of that particular flight out of the total fare is calculated by working out the distance of that flight divided by the total distance of the flight itinerary on the ticket. Taxes and charges are not included in the reimbursement of the ticket price/fare, unless the tax/charge is dependent on the class of travel.
- Pešková v Travel Service (Case C‑315/15): A bird strike constitutes 'extraordinary circumstances'. However, even if a flight delay/cancellation is caused by an event constituting 'extraordinary circumstances', an airline is only released from its duty to pay compensation if it took all reasonable measures to avoid the delay/cancellation. To determine this, the court will consider what measures could actually be taken by the airline, directly or indirectly, without requiring it to make intolerable sacrifices. Further, even if all of these conditions are met, it is necessary to distinguish between the length of the delay caused by extraordinary circumstances (which could not have been avoided by all reasonable measures) and the length of the delay caused by other circumstances. For the purpose of calculating the length of the qualifying delay for compensation, the delay falling into the former category would be deducted from the total delay.
- Krijgsman v SLM (C‑302/16): Where a passenger has booked a flight through a travel agent, and that flight has been cancelled, but notification of the cancellation was not communicated to the passenger by the travel agent or airline at least 14 days prior to departure, the passenger is entitled to compensation.
- Bossen v Brussels Airlines (C‑559/16): On a flight itinerary involving connecting flights, the distance is calculated by using ‘great circle’ method from the origin to the final destination, regardless of the distance actually flown.
- Krüsemann v TUIfly (C‑195/17): The spontaneous absence of a significant number of flight crew staff (‘wildcat strikes’) does not constitute 'extraordinary circumstances'.
- Wegener v Royal Air Maroc (C‑537/17): The Court reaffirmed its previous decision (Folkerts v Air France).
- Wirth v Thomson Airways (C‑532/17): Where there is a 'wet lease' (with the lessor carrier providing an aircraft, including crew, to the lessee airline, but without the lessor bearing operational responsibility for the flight in question), the lessor carrier is not responsible under the Regulation.
- Harms v Vueling (C‑601/17): For the purpose of calculating the ticket price, the difference between the amount paid by the passenger and the amount received by the air carrier (corresponding to the commission collected by a person acting as an intermediary between those two parties) is included in the ticket price, unless that commission was set without the knowledge of the air carrier.
- CS v České aerolinie (C‑502/18): For a journey with 2 connecting flights (in a single reservation) departing from an EU member state and to a final destination outside the EU via an airport outside the EU, a passenger who is delayed by 3 hours or more in reaching the final destination because of a delay in the second flight which is operated as a codeshare flight by a non-EU carrier may bring an action for compensation against the EU air carrier that performed the first flight.
European Commission's Interpretative Guidelines (note that this policy document is persuasive, but only the CJEU's interpretation of Regulation 261/2004 is authoritative and binding): http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-conte...XC0615%2801%29. National courts do not have to follow the European Commission's Interpretative Guidelines (but are obliged to follow the CJEU's case-law). For example, although the European Commission takes the view that 'missed connecting flights due to significant delays at security checks or passengers failing to respect the boarding time of their flight at their airport of transfer do not give entitlement to compensation' (para 4.4.7 of the Interpretative Guidelines), the Edinburgh Sheriff Court took a different view in Caldwell v easyJet. Sheriff T Welsh QC held that 'the facts proved can properly be characterised as denied boarding because of the operational inadequacies of Easyjet ground staff’s management of the Easyjet queues on 14 September 2014 and their failure to facilitate passage through security check, customs and passport control when asked, in circumstances, where it was obvious the passengers were in danger of missing their flight'.
When AY+ Flight Reason AY Offered AY explanation Won/Lost, How, Time
Summer13 no status (HKG-)HEL-LHR Prior to landing, LHR was closed as the fire services there were unavailable, so the flight was diverted and landed in LTN, where passengers were offloaded. However, the plane then flew from LTN to LHR with luggage in the hold, so passengers had to make their own way to LHR to retrieve their luggage (as AY provided no ground transport arrangements), eventually arriving at LHR and reclaiming baggage over 6 hours later than the scheduled arrival time. Requested 600€ plus transport and phone call costs incurred, but AY only agreed to reimburse transport and phone call costs AY claimed that 'the delay of this flight happened in extraordinary circumstances' Filed claim through ESCP in the County Court in England. AY contested the claim. The Court ruled against AY. In its judgment, the Court cited CJEU's decision in Eglitis and Wallentin-Hermann and rejected AY's defence as the flight diversion only caused a small initial delay. AY failed to discharge its burden of proof that it took all reasonable measures, as evidenced by proper contingency plans and steps to assist passengers at LTN. The delay in arrival at LHR was significantly lengthened by this factor. AY eventually paid the damages and costs awarded by the Court.
Summer13 no status (LHR-)HEL-HKG Technical fault Requested 600€ plus phone call costs incurred, but AY only agreed to reimburse phone call costs AY initially claimed that the technical fault was not foreseeable Filed claim through ESCP in the County Court in England. AY conceded the claim and eventually paid 600€ + phone call costs + court costs.
Fall15 AYG HEL-LHR-US HEL-LHR late, miss connect 200€ voucher, reroute 3,5 hours requested 600€, re-offered 400€ due to <4 hours -> accepted.
Nov15 AYS HEL-AMS Equip swap -> rerouting 3+ hours 400€ cash (as per EC261) or 550€ voucher offered in 2 days accepted
Jan16 AYP KUO-HEL ATR crew shortage, cancelled 50€ voucher Claimed EU 261 + taxi + hotel. NO -> paid taxi+hotel -> escalated to KRIL -> NoRRA offered 250€ voucher. Accepted
Jan16 AYS WAW-HEL "extraordinary crew shortage" 50€ voucher raised to "kuluttajaoikeusneuvoja". They state that crew shortage can usually not be declared an extraordinary -> escalated to KRIL -> AY offered 150€ -> declined -> AY offers 200€ voucher -> Accepted. 8 months to resolve the matter!
Jan16 AA Platinum = OWS BKK-HEL delay, no equip combined 300€ voucher (for 2 pers) extraordinary manufacturing fault of A350 declined offer -> escalated to KRIL -> AY offered 680€ voucher / 400 cash (for 2 pers) -> declined -> KRIL decision Feb18 = AY should compensate 300€ / pax
Q1/16 ?? JFK-HEL diverted back to JFK ?? technical fail, new equip escalated to KRIL -> 600€ offered, accepted
Feb16 ?? (LHR-)HEL-PEK cancelled, re-routed, arrived at PEK with 20 hr delay and, because of this, missed seeing dying grandfather by a few hours ?? 'extraordinary circumstances' due to pilot sickness, AY refused compensation -> filed small claim in England and won (see Guardian article)
Feb16 ?? HEL-PEK 6h delay 150€ voucher manufacture fail of A350 ??
Q1/16 AYG LHR-HEL A350 broke up 50€ voucher ??
?? OWE HKG-HEL 6h delay (A350) 600€*2pers ?? 2 weeks wait only for compensation
?? ?? BKK-HEL 13h delay 600€ cash / 800€ voucher ?? Just 2 days to get compensation, accepted 800 voucher
Q1/16 ?? BKK-HEL misconnect, 6h delay 400/€550€ misconnect raised the discance to apply 600 -> offered 600€ cash / 800 voucher
Mar16 AYP PVG-HEL cancel, reroute, 12h delay 600/800€ cancel&reroute 800€ voucher accepted
?? ?? ?? cancelled, long delay 600/800 technical fault accepted
Mar16 ?? HEL-HKG 8h delay 200€ voucher extraordinary fail A350 escalated to KRIL -> no info
Nov16 OWE (LHR-)HEL-TLL overnight delay nothing NoRRA pilot shortage Claim for EUR 400 filed in the England and Wales small claims track (not ESCP), AY admitted the whole of the claim a few days before the hearing (details)
???16 AYS PEK-HEL cancelled 100/200€ sick pilot, no overtime declined -> escalated to KRIL. No info yet.
Feb17 OWE BKK-HEL-LHR 2h delay in BKK, misconnect in HEL 600€ cash / 800€ voucher ?? Submitted compensation request, AY responded around one week later, accepted 800€ voucher (details)
Feb 2017 AYP KUO-HEL 06:00 cancelled ATR shortage HEL-LHR was missed, at LHR 6 h late €400 in cash or €550 AY voucher. Returning HEL-KUO 23:40 cancelled ATR shortage rerouted to JOE, bus to KUO, at KUO 2h 40min late €250 in cash or €350 AY voucher.
Apr 2017 OWE TLL-HEL-LHR AY118 delayed from TLL-HEL "crew rest" then later, "Try Norra, not us" €400 claimed. Rejected. MCOL in UK. Disputed by AY. County Court civil case, Oxford (10/11/17) Judgement : AY was the operating carrier under EC2111/2005, compensation and costs and expenses awarded.
Apr 2017 OWE TLL-HEL-LHR AY118 delayed from TLL-HEL "crew rest" then later, "Try Norra, not us", then "Delayed due to weather" €400 claimed. Rejected. 2 seperate agencies tried but gave up on the case. European Small Claims Procedure started at Den Haag sub-district court, AY didn't defend. Judgement (11/6/2019): compensation, costs and interest awarded.
Dec 2017 AY Gold AY HEL-KOK operated by Norra canceled due to crew shortage, delay due to reroute >3 hours EUR 250 claimed. Accepted by AY and an alternative of a EUR 350 voucher offered.
May 28 2017 AYP, AY 380 KUO-HEL was cancelled due to lack of planes (admitted by Finnair - Flightradar 24 gold is an invaluable tool for this sherlockholmesing: one KUO flight was cancelled in the previous evening as OH-LKM had broken in HAM and it should have taken care of the next morning KUO-HEL flight 7:30, OH-LKP arrived late from GVA 23:40 and took off to KUO well after midnight being there 01:33, OH-LKP should have flown KUO-HEL flight 6:15 but crew rest prevented this, OH-LKP flew KUO-HEL 7:30 flight instead). Missed LHR connection. Arrived at LHR 5 h 54 min later than planned. EUR 400 or voucher of EUR 600 was offered without any resent.
Dec 2018. HEL-LPA delayed 4 hours because routine maintenance took longer than expected. Pax AY Plat. Compensation paid within 24 hours (offered €400 cash or €550 voucher).
Some more cases from earlier history can be read HERE (unfortunately only in Finnish)
List of National Enforcement Bodies (NEBs) in EU/EEA Member States and Switzerland published by the European Commission (updated: April 2018): https://ec.europa.eu/transport/sites...ent_bodies.pdf
European Commission's guidelines with criteria for determining which NEB is competent for handling complaints (updated: April 2017): https://ec.europa.eu/transport/sites...procedures.pdf
If you decide to engage a claim agency/lawyer to pursue your claim, please first read the Information Notice published by the European Commission (updated: March 2017): http://ec.europa.eu/transport/sites/...gencies_en.pdf
To file a court claim, the CJEU stated in Rehder (see above) the criteria for determining which Member State's court has jurisdiction. If you booked a package combining flight(s) and accommodation, Advocate General Sharpston stated in her Opinion in Flight Refund v Lufthansa (Case C‑94/14) at paras 9 and 59-60 that a consumer claiming compensation under Regulation 261/2004 can file a court claim in the jurisdiction where he/she habitually resides, as an alternative to filing a court claim in the jurisdiction of the airport of departure or arrival.
You can file a claim at a court with jurisdiction to rule on your case either through the national procedure or through the European Small Claims Procedure (ESCP). The ESCP is a primarily written procedure and is available where the claimant and defendant are domiciled in different EU Member States (with the exception of Denmark) for claims up to EUR 2,000 (increasing to EUR 5,000 with effect from 14 July 2017).
Finnair and EC 261 compensation
Dec 11, 2017, 11:33 pm
#451
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: HEL
Programs: AY Platinum, TK Elite, BT VIP, AA, BA, SK, DL, NT, WB + hotels
Posts: 8,750
Yes. You can also choose to place your claim in your country of residence if you live in the EU. Might be a better option since AY doesn't follow KRIL recommendations. In the UK, you have the option to use a small claims court. There are many stories about that in the topic I linked.
Dec 12, 2017, 1:50 am
#452
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 1
Dear [Moderator edit to protect privacy]
Thank you for your patience while waiting for our reply. I’m truly sorry for the long investigation time concerning the flight delay.
I apologise for the delay of your Helsinki-Phuket flight on 29th of October 2017 and the distress it has caused to you.
We aim to provide an enjoyable and smooth travel experience and we regret that this was not the case for your recent journey.
Promptness is an important part of the service we provide and we always work hard to be on time. However, air traffic is highly sensitive to sudden changes, such as weather conditions and technical issues.
By virtue of EC regulation 261/2004, no compensation will be paid in the case of a delay due to extraordinary circumstances Finnair is unable to influence even if all reasonable and necessary measures are taken. Such unusual conditions include weather conditions, industrial actions, air traffic restrictions and safety risks.
According to the information we have received from Finnair Technical Department, the aircraft manufacturer has confirmed that there has been a hidden design defect in flap moving damper in Airbus A350 fleet. The manufacturer of the defected component has detected the root cause. Aircraft manufacturer has published a technical follow up document TFU 27.54.00.020.
Leakage of hydraulic fluid out of damper was the root cause. The replacement of the moving damper had to be done before the next flight. Airbus has informed airlines about this hidden design defect affecting the safety of flights thus no compensation will be paid.
However we understand the inconvenience this delay has caused to you and as a settlement in this case we will offer to you either 250 euro gift voucher for Finnair flights or alternatively 125 euro cash.
The Finnair gift voucher can be used to pay for Finnair flights. The gift voucher is not personal, meaning that you can give it to someone else or use it to pay for several passengers' flights. The gift voucher is valid for one year and the actual flight date may be within one year from the booking date.
The settlement offer is valid for two weeks, until 26th of December 2017. Should you prefer the monetary compensation, kindly inform your bank details (IBAN account number and SWIFT-code) for the payment.
We look forward to having the opportunity to provide a more pleasurable travel experience in the future.
Sincerely
Finnair Customer Relations
[Moderator edit to remove name of non-management employee]
Thank you for your patience while waiting for our reply. I’m truly sorry for the long investigation time concerning the flight delay.
I apologise for the delay of your Helsinki-Phuket flight on 29th of October 2017 and the distress it has caused to you.
We aim to provide an enjoyable and smooth travel experience and we regret that this was not the case for your recent journey.
Promptness is an important part of the service we provide and we always work hard to be on time. However, air traffic is highly sensitive to sudden changes, such as weather conditions and technical issues.
By virtue of EC regulation 261/2004, no compensation will be paid in the case of a delay due to extraordinary circumstances Finnair is unable to influence even if all reasonable and necessary measures are taken. Such unusual conditions include weather conditions, industrial actions, air traffic restrictions and safety risks.
According to the information we have received from Finnair Technical Department, the aircraft manufacturer has confirmed that there has been a hidden design defect in flap moving damper in Airbus A350 fleet. The manufacturer of the defected component has detected the root cause. Aircraft manufacturer has published a technical follow up document TFU 27.54.00.020.
Leakage of hydraulic fluid out of damper was the root cause. The replacement of the moving damper had to be done before the next flight. Airbus has informed airlines about this hidden design defect affecting the safety of flights thus no compensation will be paid.
However we understand the inconvenience this delay has caused to you and as a settlement in this case we will offer to you either 250 euro gift voucher for Finnair flights or alternatively 125 euro cash.
The Finnair gift voucher can be used to pay for Finnair flights. The gift voucher is not personal, meaning that you can give it to someone else or use it to pay for several passengers' flights. The gift voucher is valid for one year and the actual flight date may be within one year from the booking date.
The settlement offer is valid for two weeks, until 26th of December 2017. Should you prefer the monetary compensation, kindly inform your bank details (IBAN account number and SWIFT-code) for the payment.
We look forward to having the opportunity to provide a more pleasurable travel experience in the future.
Sincerely
Finnair Customer Relations
[Moderator edit to remove name of non-management employee]
Last edited by Ocn Vw 1K; Dec 12, 2017 at 2:40 pm Reason: Per FT Rule 21.
Dec 12, 2017, 2:01 am
#453
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: KUO
Programs: HH Diam, AY/AX/KQ/IHG/VISA Plat, SK/Bonvoy/Melia/Strawberry Gold, Radisson Prem, PP Prest
Posts: 2,266
AY should pay €600, no question. I would escalate that to KRIL. For reference: Judge Rules Passengers Can Claim For Lightning Strikes
Dec 12, 2017, 5:51 pm
#454
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 2
Received EXACTLY the same (!) reply from finnair yesterday. We've likely been on the same flight, I guess. Should we all, I don't know, go collectively to court... Feeling frustrated.
Dec 13, 2017, 2:06 am
#455
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 2
I received the exact same reply from Finnair as Dkdude and MKSF. We've been on the same flight from Helsinki to Phuket, which has been delayed for ~6 hours and filed for a compensation. There is a lot of information in this forum, but can someone tell us in short do we have any chances to get bigger compensations and what steps should we take to proceed?
Dec 13, 2017, 1:07 pm
#456
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 2
[QUOTE=TTL;29163762]AY should pay €600, no question. I would escalate that to KRIL. For reference: .../QUOTE]
The passengers were not Finnish so KRIL is not really an option? Perhaps some EU-level institution or to court directly? Besides KRIL decisions are not directly enforceable, are they? AY will just ignore them. Maybe airhelp or alternative company?
Anyway, if somebody knows what exactly is TFU 27.54.00.020 and when was it issued? Perhaps AY is just playing is (I'm mean I'm sure they are playing, but, you know...)
The passengers were not Finnish so KRIL is not really an option? Perhaps some EU-level institution or to court directly? Besides KRIL decisions are not directly enforceable, are they? AY will just ignore them. Maybe airhelp or alternative company?
Anyway, if somebody knows what exactly is TFU 27.54.00.020 and when was it issued? Perhaps AY is just playing is (I'm mean I'm sure they are playing, but, you know...)
Dec 13, 2017, 5:50 pm
#457
Join Date: Mar 2015
Programs: BA GGL
Posts: 2,447
Good day fellow FTers.
I'm due to return today on an SGN-HEL-LHR flight. But it's been delayed by 5hrs, therefore my HEL-LHR connection will be missed. An overnighter at HEL is on the cards, which is fine.
The reason is due to the previous day's HEL-SGN flight being delayed owed to weather. Now, does this mean that I won't be owed EU261 compensation, or is it AY's responsibility to attempt to source a replacement flight at SGN (and failure to do so would mean I'm eligible for compensation)? Not sure of the nuance of weather rules in this regard.
Currently sat in the lounge, where no additional food vouchers/comp has been offered. It's fine, but I would rather a sit-down lunch later and not sure if vouchers/reimbursement should be offered?
Thanks for any feedback.
I'm due to return today on an SGN-HEL-LHR flight. But it's been delayed by 5hrs, therefore my HEL-LHR connection will be missed. An overnighter at HEL is on the cards, which is fine.
The reason is due to the previous day's HEL-SGN flight being delayed owed to weather. Now, does this mean that I won't be owed EU261 compensation, or is it AY's responsibility to attempt to source a replacement flight at SGN (and failure to do so would mean I'm eligible for compensation)? Not sure of the nuance of weather rules in this regard.
Currently sat in the lounge, where no additional food vouchers/comp has been offered. It's fine, but I would rather a sit-down lunch later and not sure if vouchers/reimbursement should be offered?
Thanks for any feedback.
Last edited by mmxbreaks; Dec 13, 2017 at 6:33 pm
Dec 13, 2017, 8:17 pm
#459
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: HEL
Programs: AY Platinum, TK Elite, BT VIP, AA, BA, SK, DL, NT, WB + hotels
Posts: 8,750
They should offer you vouchers, but those vouchers will surely not be enough to cover a sit-down lunch, more like a sandwich and a cup of coffee at most. If you're going to have lunch anyway, make sure to take a receipt and send a claim to AY afterwards.
Dec 13, 2017, 10:26 pm
#460
Join Date: Mar 2015
Programs: BA GGL
Posts: 2,447
The thing I'm really wondering about is whether EU261 will apply. After all, when was the last time HEL closed due to weather? If it didn't close then the flight should have arrived within sensible time... it's 285mins late at present, with missed connection putting me 12hrs+ out.
Dec 13, 2017, 11:14 pm
#461
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 938
The thing I'm really wondering about is whether EU261 will apply. After all, when was the last time HEL closed due to weather? If it didn't close then the flight should have arrived within sensible time... it's 285mins late at present, with missed connection putting me 12hrs+ out.
Dec 13, 2017, 11:50 pm
#462
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: HEL
Programs: AY Plat Lumo, SK Gold
Posts: 954
As there was labor action (which is considered an extraordinary circumstance) together with the weather conditions I’d guess AY would refuse to pay any EC 261 claims without a court order - and they could have a fair chance of winning in the court.
Dec 14, 2017, 12:29 am
#463
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: HEL
Programs: AY+ Gold (OWS)
Posts: 528
This is an interesting position, I would say that runway closure due to weather is certainly extraordinary circumstances and very much beyond the control of Finnair. It is also very 'extraordinary' for Helsinki to have wind strong enough to merit closing two runways and to have lots of snow at the same time.
Dec 14, 2017, 1:17 am
#464
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: HEL
Programs: AY Platinum, TK Elite, BT VIP, AA, BA, SK, DL, NT, WB + hotels
Posts: 8,750
My interpretation would be that Tuesday's flights to/from HEL are not eligible for EU261 compensation. The chaos was caused by (1) labour action; no compensation, (2) strong winds; weather, no compensation and to a lesser extent (3) snow, nothing that special really, but nevertheless weather; no compensation.
However, the interesting thing here is how long it will take for AY to get their act together. Many longhaul planes stay in the air for 20 hours, leaving practically no room for delays of any kind. If they have flights arriving hours late days from now, they probably cannot blame it on labour action or weather that occured several days ago.
However, the interesting thing here is how long it will take for AY to get their act together. Many longhaul planes stay in the air for 20 hours, leaving practically no room for delays of any kind. If they have flights arriving hours late days from now, they probably cannot blame it on labour action or weather that occured several days ago.
Dec 14, 2017, 6:02 am
#465
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: HKG
Programs: BAEC Gold, CX MPC Gold, Avis preferred plus, MyWaitrose card
Posts: 287
Hi
My wife is currently in HEL due to fly on AY101 to Hong Kong (scheduled departure 16:55). Screens currently showing an ETD of 22:40, so almost a six hour delay. She was told at the transfer desk (connecting from AY1340) that the delay is due to a "technical inspection" of the aircraft, but according to Flightradar the aircraft scheduled to fly is still inbound from its previous journey, having departed from SGN around 6 hours late - presumably the plane mentioned in the post further up! However, the same aircraft is currently also scheduled on Flightradar to fly the late evening HKG flight, so I suppose they could be inspecting a possible replacement plane.
Annoyingly, her winter coat is in her hold luggage so she doesn't even have the opportunity to get out and explore Helsinki on this unplanned 9hr layover!!
Anyway, long story short I believe she should qualify for some sort of compensation under EU261, so how does one go about (trying to) lodge a claim with Finnair? We are actually resident in HKG (although UK passport holders with a UK bank account) so not sure of the most appropriate route / country to claim from??
My wife is currently in HEL due to fly on AY101 to Hong Kong (scheduled departure 16:55). Screens currently showing an ETD of 22:40, so almost a six hour delay. She was told at the transfer desk (connecting from AY1340) that the delay is due to a "technical inspection" of the aircraft, but according to Flightradar the aircraft scheduled to fly is still inbound from its previous journey, having departed from SGN around 6 hours late - presumably the plane mentioned in the post further up! However, the same aircraft is currently also scheduled on Flightradar to fly the late evening HKG flight, so I suppose they could be inspecting a possible replacement plane.
Annoyingly, her winter coat is in her hold luggage so she doesn't even have the opportunity to get out and explore Helsinki on this unplanned 9hr layover!!
Anyway, long story short I believe she should qualify for some sort of compensation under EU261, so how does one go about (trying to) lodge a claim with Finnair? We are actually resident in HKG (although UK passport holders with a UK bank account) so not sure of the most appropriate route / country to claim from??