Jan 21, 2019, 8:48 am
Last edit by: hayzel7773
Summary of Events
https://nypost.com/2019/01/21/flight-attendant-says-overweight-passenger-forced-her-to-wipe-his-butt/ - New York Post
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6615261/31st-passenger-forces-stewardess-wipe-bottom-long-flight-Los-Angeles-Taiwan.html - Daily Mail
http://focustaiwan.tw/news/asoc/201901210016.aspx - Focus Taiwan
EVA's Disability In-Flight Assistance Policy: https://www.evaair.com/en-global/managing-your-trip/special-assistance-and-inquiry/special-assistance/#assistance-during-the-flight
FA/Union News Conference (in Chinese Mandarin): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pt-gYpN1D8
BR Statements
1/21 Post FA News Conference Statement from EVA Air (in Chinese): https://www.evaair.com/zh-tw/about-eva-air/news/travel-news/2019-01-21-pr-publish.html (English summary: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/30681664-post60.html)
1/20 Initial statement: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/30677669-post11.html
Other Taiwanese Media Reports (in Chinese)
1/21 https://udn.com/news/story/7315/3605843 - includes clarification from BR management post FA union news conference
1/20 https://udn.com/news/story/7315/3604203 - one of the first reports
1/20 https://tw.appledaily.com/new/realtime/20190120/1504018 - another one of the earlier reports (video is not the actual event and this news paper is like the New York Post of Taiwan and Hong Kong)
- Pax boarded last in a wheelchair on January 18th for BR15, LAX-TPE, and he was connecting onto BKK.
- Because of his size, he requests to be seated in an empty row of 3. They happily move him.
- 2hr30min into flight, the man requests that the flight attendant make arrangements for him to use the J class bathroom as he cannot fit in the Y one. The flight attendant inquires with the Chief Purser, who gives the ok.
- 3 flight attendants along with the original FA (She is a deputy purser in charge of the Y cabin) assist him to the restroom so that he can use it. They inform him where the call button is, then shut the door for him.
- One minute later, he rings the call button and the FA's open the door. There, he says that he cannot pull his underwear down; it's off in the front but on in the back. A flight attendant brings a blanket over to cover him as his genitals are now exposed. He whacks the FA's hand and tells her to take that away and help him pull his underwear down. She agrees, dons plastic gloves, and then pulls the back down for him before leaving the lav.
- 15 minutes later, the man says that they can come in and help him now. Upon opening the door, they discover he is still sitting on the toilet with his pants at his ankles. He says, "I'm done. You can wipe my butt now". The flight attendant says she cannot do that, and he berates her, saying she agreed to do it previously and now he already went so he needs her to do it or he's just going to sit in the lav. The CP is called in from rest at this point and an all-call is made.
- After further back and forth with the passenger and conversation between the crew, the CP makes the decision to wipe for him, even though it is made clear they do not do these things. The flight was expected to be extremely turbulent and the FA's decided they could not inconvenience other pax over this situation. CP cannot bear to have her junior crew do it, so she will do it herself while the DP holds the man up. She dons 3 layers of plastic gloves and proceeds to wipe. While wiping, the man moans "hmmmmm, deeper, deeper". After the first wipe, the man claims that he is not clean and demands she wipes again. She wipes a total of three (3) times!
- After the 3rd wipe, they say they cannot wipe anymore. He then says "You better have wiped me clean".
- The pax now demands the FA pull his pants up for him, which she does because she has already been traumatized at this point. He is helped back to his seat.
- Pax goes #2 again later on in the flight, the same scenario plays out again.
- He has flown roughly 20 flights with BR and did not start presenting problems until May 2018 when he allegedly developed health issues.
- According to the FA's, multiple BIP reports have been made against him throughout this year.
- In May 2018 on the same flight, he made the same demands but was struck down. Instead, he defecates into his pants in his seat. Pax complains, leading to a discipline hearing for the FA's as to why this happened in this first place. They are let off with warnings.
- He urinated himself in another instance on a TPE-BKK flight.
- He demanded a Thai crew member change and clean his diaper on a TPE-BKK flight but was struck down. Instead, he let the diaper overflow into the seat.
- On the connecting TPE-BKK flight on the 19th, he spilled juice in his crotch area. When he flagged a flight attendant to get her to bring napkins, he also asked her to wipe. She gave him napkins to wipe and said he could do it himself, to which he replied "You can do better than me". The flight attendant wiped for him.
https://nypost.com/2019/01/21/flight-attendant-says-overweight-passenger-forced-her-to-wipe-his-butt/ - New York Post
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6615261/31st-passenger-forces-stewardess-wipe-bottom-long-flight-Los-Angeles-Taiwan.html - Daily Mail
http://focustaiwan.tw/news/asoc/201901210016.aspx - Focus Taiwan
EVA's Disability In-Flight Assistance Policy: https://www.evaair.com/en-global/managing-your-trip/special-assistance-and-inquiry/special-assistance/#assistance-during-the-flight
FA/Union News Conference (in Chinese Mandarin): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pt-gYpN1D8
BR Statements
1/21 Post FA News Conference Statement from EVA Air (in Chinese): https://www.evaair.com/zh-tw/about-eva-air/news/travel-news/2019-01-21-pr-publish.html (English summary: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/30681664-post60.html)
1/20 Initial statement: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/30677669-post11.html
Other Taiwanese Media Reports (in Chinese)
1/21 https://udn.com/news/story/7315/3605843 - includes clarification from BR management post FA union news conference
1/20 https://udn.com/news/story/7315/3604203 - one of the first reports
1/20 https://tw.appledaily.com/new/realtime/20190120/1504018 - another one of the earlier reports (video is not the actual event and this news paper is like the New York Post of Taiwan and Hong Kong)
BR Flight Attendant Sexually Harassed by Gentleman with Disability
Jan 22, 2019, 7:41 pm
#121
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Somewhere I've Driven To
Programs: HiltonHonors, IHG Hotels, DL Skymiles
Posts: 2,070
Revolting to say the least. "deeper, deeper". This old PIG should be banned and should have been arrested at the connection point for indecent exposure and sexual ASSAULT. Seriously, what flight attendant and why would ANY flight attendant agree to wipe someone's ... ?????????? You can sit on the toilet till we get to Taipei.......that is after I tell the Captain and he'll probably have to divert to get you off and to a hospital or nursing home.
Jan 22, 2019, 7:42 pm
#122
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: NYC, SEA, TPE
Programs: BR Diamond, B6 Mosaic
Posts: 436
Sad thing about this news is that it’s dominating all the headlines for BR.
What about the pilot who was fined 200K NT for having a pork bun in his carry-on?
Or, the passenger bound for Hangzhou that ended up on the wrong flight to Seoul instead? (This seems to be a bigger security issue).
What about the pilot who was fined 200K NT for having a pork bun in his carry-on?
Or, the passenger bound for Hangzhou that ended up on the wrong flight to Seoul instead? (This seems to be a bigger security issue).
Jan 22, 2019, 7:48 pm
#123
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Somewhere I've Driven To
Programs: HiltonHonors, IHG Hotels, DL Skymiles
Posts: 2,070
According to reports, he defecated twice on the flight in May 2018, once in his pants and once with the assistance of fellow passengers. BR refunded the pax money after a complaint was made by them. Following the complaint, BR initiated a disciplinary hearing, citing the hazardous and uncomfortable conditions fellow pax were subjected to. There, the crew were questioned as to why they allowed pax to help the gentleman instead of them doing it and they were all released with warnings.
So I guess some airlines expect their flight crews to do this or lose their jobs? EVA Air needs to refresh their definition of running an airline, not a home health aide service. Note: Please don't read this as my having no compassion; I do feel for the very obese, elderly and those that would truly struggle to eat and do everyday things but given this guy has done this before, he obviously gets some "pleasure" out of it and all of that should be banning him.
Jan 22, 2019, 7:51 pm
#124
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: CAN, LAX, TPE
Programs: AA, AS, CI, DL, UA
Posts: 2,898
According to reports, he defecated twice on the flight in May 2018, once in his pants and once with the assistance of fellow passengers. BR refunded the pax money after a complaint was made by them. Following the complaint, BR initiated a disciplinary hearing, citing the hazardous and uncomfortable conditions fellow pax were subjected to. There, the crew were questioned as to why they allowed pax to help the gentleman instead of them doing it and they were all released with warnings.
So what's the conclusion of the previous incident? The FAs should not let other passengers help this guy, they should wipe this guy off, just let him poo, blacklist him for flying if he has no caregiver or what should have been done? It seems like no exact solution was given? That would be fault on management if no direction was given other than a warning.
Nothing as of note other than he paid it off. I am unsure if EVA is suppose to do anything about this?
Jan 22, 2019, 9:14 pm
#126
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: SFO
Programs: BR Diamond, Dynasty Flyer Paragon, Marriott Lifetime Plat
Posts: 1,926
Sad thing about this news is that it’s dominating all the headlines for BR.
What about the pilot who was fined 200K NT for having a pork bun in his carry-on?
Or, the passenger bound for Hangzhou that ended up on the wrong flight to Seoul instead? (This seems to be a bigger security issue).
What about the pilot who was fined 200K NT for having a pork bun in his carry-on?
Or, the passenger bound for Hangzhou that ended up on the wrong flight to Seoul instead? (This seems to be a bigger security issue).
Now the Hangzhou pax that boarded the flight to Seoul though...sounds to me like the CAA is coming in soon for an audit!
Jan 22, 2019, 9:15 pm
#127
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: SFO
Programs: BR Diamond, Dynasty Flyer Paragon, Marriott Lifetime Plat
Posts: 1,926
I am going to take your word for it cause my source said nothing was reported other than other passengers helped (and then ground staff in TPE) like the EVA statement made.
So what's the conclusion of the previous incident? The FAs should not let other passengers help this guy, they should wipe this guy off, just let him poo, blacklist him for flying if he has no caregiver or what should have been done? It seems like no exact solution was given? That would be fault on management if no direction was given other than a warning.
Nothing as of note other than he paid it off. I am unsure if EVA is suppose to do anything about this?
So what's the conclusion of the previous incident? The FAs should not let other passengers help this guy, they should wipe this guy off, just let him poo, blacklist him for flying if he has no caregiver or what should have been done? It seems like no exact solution was given? That would be fault on management if no direction was given other than a warning.
Nothing as of note other than he paid it off. I am unsure if EVA is suppose to do anything about this?
Jan 22, 2019, 9:18 pm
#128
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: SFO
Programs: BR Diamond, Dynasty Flyer Paragon, Marriott Lifetime Plat
Posts: 1,926
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So I guess some airlines expect their flight crews to do this or lose their jobs? EVA Air needs to refresh their definition of running an airline, not a home health aide service. Note: Please don't read this as my having no compassion; I do feel for the very obese, elderly and those that would truly struggle to eat and do everyday things but given this guy has done this before, he obviously gets some "pleasure" out of it and all of that should be banning him.
So I guess some airlines expect their flight crews to do this or lose their jobs? EVA Air needs to refresh their definition of running an airline, not a home health aide service. Note: Please don't read this as my having no compassion; I do feel for the very obese, elderly and those that would truly struggle to eat and do everyday things but given this guy has done this before, he obviously gets some "pleasure" out of it and all of that should be banning him.
Jan 22, 2019, 9:30 pm
#129
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: SFO
Programs: BR Diamond, Dynasty Flyer Paragon, Marriott Lifetime Plat
Posts: 1,926
Taiwan's MOL is reporting that if sexual harassment is confirmed, they could be fined NT500000 for failing to maintain a sexual harassment free workplace. An investigation by the Ministry of Labor has been activated.
Meanwhile, some newspapers have been running articles "supporting" Eva Airways mgmt. in saying their response was done to the best of their knowledge etc. etc. You can see the media relations really coming to light here with these weird articles.
Meanwhile, some newspapers have been running articles "supporting" Eva Airways mgmt. in saying their response was done to the best of their knowledge etc. etc. You can see the media relations really coming to light here with these weird articles.
Jan 22, 2019, 10:50 pm
#130
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: NYC, SEA, TPE
Programs: BR Diamond, B6 Mosaic
Posts: 436
I’m still trying to understand the doors vs FA numbers. Doesn’t the 321 have 8 doors and 6 FAs?
Jan 22, 2019, 10:56 pm
#131
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: NYC, SEA, TPE
Programs: BR Diamond, B6 Mosaic
Posts: 436
I feel like these two stories show the impact BR has on the media. Pork bun could be in collaboration with the government to set an example for potential smugglers of pork. The hangzhou passenger is big mistake from many involved, so the story has been suppressed. Basically both the hangzhou flight and Seoul flights required the passengers to take the bus to the plane (not boarding from gate). The passenger hopped on the wrong bus (because he saw one line was shorter). He was the last one on the (Seoul) plane, and the FAs were in a hurry to get going, so closed the doors right after he got on. His ticket should’ve been checked when boarding the bus, getting on the ramp, and on the plane. Missed all around.
Jan 22, 2019, 11:30 pm
#132
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Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: SFO
Programs: BR Diamond, Dynasty Flyer Paragon, Marriott Lifetime Plat
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They used to staff 8 but it was reduced to 6. The rule is that you must have one FA at every active emergency exit door. I think what happened was that BR deactivated or downgraded two of the doors (Type C) on the A321 and made them a Type III instead, circumventing the staffing rule. I could be wrong and min staffing could be 8 again, though a CP told me they had changed it to 6 back in 2017.
Jan 23, 2019, 12:31 am
#133
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: NYC, SEA, TPE
Programs: BR Diamond, B6 Mosaic
Posts: 436
They used to staff 8 but it was reduced to 6. The rule is that you must have one FA at every active emergency exit door. I think what happened was that BR deactivated or downgraded two of the doors (Type C) on the A321 and made them a Type III instead, circumventing the staffing rule. I could be wrong and min staffing could be 8 again, though a CP told me they had changed it to 6 back in 2017.
Jan 23, 2019, 12:33 am
#134
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Location: SFO
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Type III is basically an overwing exit. It can be passenger operated as long as their is a safety briefing card and a pre-departure briefing by a crew member with confirmation all pax are able and willing to assist. I don’t know if BR changed to Type III or deactivated a pair. In an emergency, you can pretty much guarantee that those doors will either not open or open but evacuate very few ppl unless the pax sitting there knows what they are doing. Just run towards a crew-operated door!
Jan 23, 2019, 5:43 am
#135
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Bay Area
Programs: UA 1k now; AA (no status); HY Diamond; SPG Platinum
Posts: 707
The J class one is big enough to fit a wheelchair and caretaker inside. It is not that small.
It has happened before; the flight attendants just refused and he instead just went in the seat. On other flights, he threatened to faint and what not if they did not assist. Disgusting.
It has happened before; the flight attendants just refused and he instead just went in the seat. On other flights, he threatened to faint and what not if they did not assist. Disgusting.
2. Again- he should have been denied boarding before this flight. What happened on this flight and his behavior is hard to judge because you only hear one side of story. I tend to disagree on sexual harassment.
The guy is morbid obese. It’s not going to be easy for him to move around.