I propose to exclude the countries with having an own forum. This is for pan european issues and the about 25 or so smaller countries in Europe. I would, however, be very much in favour to a forum for the Central European countries (the former Eastern European countries)

Would you agree the proposed text covers that?
"For discussion of pan-european matters, and in relation to countries without their own dedicated section"

This is a separate issue, I think the only way to achive such a thing would be with a section that had a description listing the countries it covers.

Do you agree we should proceed with the redescribing of this section anyway? (Such a redescribing would be compatible with any such future sections or changes).

I like that, but maybe have a little more text? ;)

this needs to be raised with talkboard. I am not in favour of such development since it makes finding the right place even harder than it is now. I would think that having several european countries (like france or italy) included as sub-forum in a european forum would make sense though. having a european home-forum with several subforums may be a good development. I'd include even rail travel to that ...

Really? - And if so are you talking about further clarifiction?

Do we need the sales brochure type stuff? It just takes up valuable 'screen realestate' when scrolling thought the whole Travel & Dining section list.

i never heard about "screen realestate" ... :D
but if that's so precious, then we need to make a perfect list. and would Monaco be included in France forum? What about other european micro-states? is Turkey in Europe ? ... I think something funny would work, too. for a definition of european countries, we can link in a sticky to wikipedia ;)

As for geographical scope and boundaries: The current section description does not address this issue, but it is also very wrong as it stands for other reasons. The proposed change addresses the clearly accepted problems and issues with the current text, it does not address nor attempt to address others, - but it doesn't make them any worse either!

As for micro-states: I think that should be left to the discretion of person posting any question, with the moderators able to move it if it seems more appropriate or becomes necessary.

Afterall, some geographical questions regarding microstates or threads will be appropriate, suited or acceptable in the sections devoted to the neighbouring country, where as others and certainly geopolitical ones will be appropriate in the Europe main section.

Indeed, a point to remember is that the country specific sections naturally also become geopolitical, French overseas departments related questions, being perfectly acceptable IMO etc.

As for Turkey: Again thats a separate issue IMO. In the absence of a dedicated Turkey section, I think Turkey questions are certainly acceptable in Europe as turkey is unquestionably atleasted partly in the european land mass.

As for 'screen real estate' (a well established web term n.b.): I would personally loose the descriptions attached to the Germany, Italy and France sections, I don't see what they add other than to the lengthen the page (and the scroll).

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I readily accept there are many OTHER difficult questions that have been rasied (many of them not only dificult here on FT, but generally), however the current text doesn't attempt to resolve them.

And the current text makes you cringe! -

"Questions about the legendary cultural capitals of Europe, from the vineyards and chateaux of the Loire Valley, the lovely villages of Oxford and Stratford-upon-Avon, the hill towns of Tuscany, and the spectacular scenery of the Alps – FlyerTalkers have been there, done that and live there with advice for all. If you have ever thought about climbing the Leaning Tower of Pisa in Italy, floating down the Danube River in Austria, or run with (or away from) the bulls in Spain, then these and many other threads await you."

Please can we do something about this now, even if it doesn't solve other questions, it will atleast correct the errors and issues here.

can we agree on that text then? (until we find a better one? ;) )

Seems like a good idea to me. Now, about the Germany, Italy, etc. descriptions, .... ;)

that's another topic :D

I'll have the word Schengen added to the new description and will contact the admin:

description changed, discussion closed? ;)

chrissxb
moderator
europe forum

I remember the discussion we had when you took it out of the "national forums" (I still do not fancy this approach).

Brilliant! Thank you.

As we all agree, there are plenty of other related issues, questions and thoughts, however I'm very glad this thread from 2008 has now achieved something.