Potentially Last Trip for a While
 

Hello Everyone!

My wife and I are considering kids after we got married this year. I think this could be our last trip for a while and I'm trying to decide where to go. I am leaning towards Italy and have posted some thoughts in the Italy forum and got some great recommendations to potentially slowdown as we were trying to see too much. We tend to not do too much, but being our potential last trip till the kids are 10 or so has me thinking were to go. The last few trips we have taken have been beach focused as my wife loves the beach. I am picking this one as we just spent 10 days in Maldives and I'm beach burnout. I want some ancient history, won't mind a day at beach for the wife, so I thought Italy. However, we were trying to see too much. Now I can't decide if I should pick one city and really explore it.

The trip will be either March or October of 2022. We are thinking Europe, but have consider Japan(if open) for Cherry Blossoms, maybe China or Egypt. My wife is extremely nervous about the last two. She isn't sure about the safety of Egypt and China concerns her as such a big country though we both would love to see the Wall. We also consider an around the world ticket. We have almost all the points for the ticket and almost enough for 8 days in hotels, depending on the hotels we can find. Hyatts would be best as we have quite a few Hyatt and Chase points.

Any thoughts? Any ideas how to narrow our focus? I hope it isn't our last international trip for years, but I suspect we will be road tripping America for the next few years at the least. I wanna go out with a bang.

Just for help I forgot to tell time. We think my wife can get off 14-16 days. We did 12 for her honeymoon and it wasn't an issue. She gets almost 6 weeks of vacation, but it is difficult to take more than a week at a time and normally a few days like long weekends. We might be able to push it for a month, but that would make it late september to mid october or all of October. I don't know if I could do that, October is my busiest month. Just wanted to give some parameters. I can do some work virtually, so normally won't be an issue. October is conference season for my industry and that means in person most likely in 2022.

Thanks as always!

Why would having kids mean you can't leave the US for 10 years? My son is now 2 and from my experience flying would have been relatively easy until about 6 months, then from 6 months until now it would have been more difficult, because he currently needs a lot of stuff yet he won't be able to remember the trips - so in a way covid has hit at a good time as we did a long-haul at 4-5 months and hopefully it will be a lot easier to travel covid-wise in a year's time.

I flew long-haul with my parents around twice a year and I do remember the trips starting from around when I was 3 years old.

If you have 14 days then I would pick a max of 4 cities to visit, alternatively have 1 or 2 as a base and then take day trips out and back. With a round the world ticket you'll probably spend 3 of the 14 days on flying and associated activities and by the time you settled into somewhere it's time to leave. And if you aren't really going round the world what's the point?

Yeah I'm not sure why you would wait so long to get the kids traveling? I grew up traveling internationally and it's the best thing my parents could have done for me. Getting kids used to long-haul flights, time change, etc. is important.

With that said, so many questions to help you narrow in on something... Do you prefer cities or to be out in nature/hiking/etc, or a combo? Active trip or museums, fine dining, etc..? Do you care if you need to get visas? Think about the basic stuff first and then you will be able to narrow in on many places naturally.

To answer your two question - Yes, Egypt is perfectly safe. For China, with 14 days, I would narrow in on a region. I actually spent last October traveling around Sichuan, Hubei, and Hunan. The trains make it very easy and there is tons to see since, as you mentioned, it's such a big country. I know you mentioned the wall, but October was a great time to go to other touristy places such as Zhangjiajie (you can google it) because it's right after a big holiday there and it was empty. Very easy to fly around the country as well.

We don't like the idea of traveling internationally with kids. I am not a fan of bringing young kids on trips like that. We plan to travel with them in America and do road trips until about 10 years. That is just our personal preference as a family. It could change once we have kids, but we have seen our friends really struggle to travel and those that do always seem to spend more time at the hotel then actually doing stuff. We made a decision to limit travel while the kids was young.

I think some place with a rich and vast history would be great. It doesn't have to be specific to any timeframe. I love Ancient History, we won't mind going somewhere with Christian roots either. Egypt has always intrigued me along with Italy and England. My wife has heard a lot about Thailand being fun to go too, but I haven't really done much research on it.

We aren't hikers so to speak. We don't mind exploring a little, but we prefer cities or beaches. I don't think we would do hours of hiking, but we might do an excursion so to speak. Museums are great, but I prefer more real life stuff. Like Pantheon etc where you can walk up to it and not be in a building. I do like to mix them too. My wife is such a picky eater, she will try almost anything, but its hard to find something she actual that fine dining can be hit or miss for us.

ymmv of course but mine are at 600K flown miles as 10 year olds.. you will have to align travel plans accordingly - early on more focus on resorts and open space so my advice would be to cover cities, museums, crowded spaces now.. dining was particularly impacted ime..

btw you will likely find that air travel with kids is much easier than long road trips unless you get an RV..

and you aint getting into china in early 2022...

Azepine00 - why do you find it easier with air travel then road trips? I always figured it'd be easier to pull over and see something random, stop by a gas station or grocery store to stretch legs etc then being caged up on a plane. That is amazing that you have 10 year old who have flown that much. This is very eye opening so thank you for sharing.

I second the motion to reconsider international travel with kids. I was nine and my sister was four the first time our family spent a a summer living in a VW Camper in Europe. We did it again two years later, this time with my older brother along for the whole trip. (He'd spent much of the first summer in a camp in Switzerland.) We drove from Paris to Moscow in 1966. Things I experienced then have informed my whole life.

I had the opportunity to spend just a week in Paris with my grandchildren a couple of years ago. They were at a similar age to mine and my brother's on our second trip, so I got a glimpse of what my parents' summer must have been like. You'd have to significantly adjust your expectations and reduce your ambitions, but you could provide yourselves and your kids a bunch of indelible memories.

I will add that from personal experience, we grew up flying between NY and the UK because we had family living over there. My family started flying us over between the two as babies. Of course traveling with little kids is difficult; no one would argue against that (if they do, you know they don't have kids).

I will never forget the first time we went on a vacation with another family, friends of ours from the same town. We flew from New York to Greece. The other family had kids about the same age as my brother and me (maybe 9 and 7 years old), but they had never really traveled before. The other kids were a nightmare to travel with because they didn't know how to handle any of the changes. Meanwhile my brother and I were very used to it at that point and as such, my family was way more relaxed on that trip. We knew that if we didn't sleep at least a little bit on the flight, we'd regret it; stuff like that. Just food for thought, and of course it's a ymmv situation with kids.

Kids may or may not feel comfortable on drives - one of mine was fine the other cried quite a bit. That really gets to you if you have to drive for hours.. later "let it go" singing was cute for a few minutes but not when it was on a loop for miles and miles.. :D
flights were never an issue for us but I guess it is also ymmv - you ll have to check what works..

during pandemic we did quite a few rv trips and I wish we tried that when kids were younger - you may want to check that out..

Thanks for all the advice. The two posts are having us reconsider travel for the kid should we be blessed with them. I really figured road trips was the way to go and we do want to build memories with them. I didn't really get to travel much as a kid. One big trip to NYC the summer before my high school graduation. The rest were just trips in our home state or the neighbor state, we were not a "vacation" type family I guess. I do wish to change that for my kids. However, I thought and always think when I see kids on a plane why would you want to bring them on such a long flight. I am miserable, aren't the kids.. Anyway after the honeymoon this year and the 8 hours of a crying kid we made the decision to do road trips and explore America while younger before going international. My second thought and this lead to a question is I figured babies and anyone till about 7-8 won't really remember it. I guess that left us with the thought that would it be worth it..

For those of you that either A traveled as a 2-8 do you remember it or B if ya had kids that traveled at those age do they remember it? Perhaps we can find a way to continue our trend of one big international trip a year going forward and multiple local trips or road trips.

Thanks for all the advice this was very eye opening.

I certainly remember a lot from my family's long road trips before, during, and after the European trips. My sister was four and six during the European camping trips and has a lot of memories from them.

My first flight was the return from Paris, via Shannon, Ireland and Gander, Newfoundland, in 1964. We'd taken a small ocean liner on the outbound! So I had a mix of modalities and got something from each of them.

I definitely remember tons of trips from when I was little. We went all around France, Germany, Switzerland, Austria, the UK, and Italy before I was 10 and I can absolutely remember lots of it and have great memories from those trips. The first really "big" trip we did was to the Galapagos when I was exactly 10 (brother was 8) and I for sure remember that. The hiking, snorkeling, the boat, all of it. These are such big events in your life, so you'll be surprised at what they remember.

As an adult now, it's also fun to go back to a lot of places I have not been to since I was a child and remembering things, or seeing how they have changed over time.

Dreamwalker, wishing you and your wife all the best in your consideration of having kid(s).

As many had said up-thread, bring small kids on international trips has its joy and some hassle. We brought our 2 year old daughter on her first trip to Europe. We had done quite a few all throughout her high school years.

That said, with the exception of Egypt, I traveled a lot to Italy and China. Since 2008, I went to China on an average of 4x each year, until the pandemic. Italy is my top 3 most favorite countries. Ranking: Japan, Italy and China.

To go to China in 2022 in March or October, I’d pick October for the weather. However, China has involuntarily cancelled visitor visa (I still have 7 years left on my 10 year visa) last year. It is like pulling teeth to get one approved. Hopefully that will change in the near future.

I collected a lot of travel photographs from all places that I traveled to. You are welcome to check out these places in China with the link below. They might or might not offer some ideas.

https://stefanofoto.smugmug.com/Asia-AU-NZ/China

Let’s say you have 14 days on the ground in Italy (excluding flying), you can do 3 to 4 cities by train. Personally, I’d do 3, and use them as base for some day trips. Trains would be my main mode of transportation. Let say you fly into Rome (base here for a few days) and train to Florence (base here a few days) and train to Venice. Then fly home from Venice.

If possible (air fare wise), get open jaw tickets to avoid back tracking.

To see some photos from Italy, please use link below:

https://stefanofoto.smugmug.com/Europe/Italy

I had done a 30 day road trip in Italy, as part of a RTW DONE3 itinerary. Not suggesting you do something like that, but just to trigger some idea about places to go and what to see.

https://stefanofoto.smugmug.com/Trav...oad-Trip-Italy

Good luck in your planning.

Thanks for all the info. We have found some tickets that work for us for Italy. They are for early March and would be 15 days from touchdown to take off.

We would land in Milan and fly out of Rome. My birthday is in March so wife loves the idea of going then as we normally travel around her bday in September. What's the weather in Italy like in March? I need to discuss with wife she dislikes cold.

I am thinking something like this itinerary.

Arrival Milan early morning and stay a night.

Head to Venice. I wanted to stop by Lake Como but my understanding is it closed till April?

14 total days of exploration including landing early morning on arrival day. Not including departure day which is day 15..
MIlan 1 Day
Venice 3 Days
Florence 3 Days
Rome 3 Days
Pompeii 1 Day
I have 2 days left. I expect one to be burned roughly with all the train rides. Do I just add them to Venice, Florence and Rome or extend one more? Add Amafi Coast? Skip something?

I have to do Milan arrival and Rome. We are going for Pompeii and potentially Herculaneum. Doubt we can do both. I am considering Herculaneum over Pompeii due to lack of shade. I sunburn easily.

Any thoughts??

Allset2travel are those countries in order? Japan, Italy, China?

Ive never had to get a visa that I recall. What big travel locations require them??

You have packed way too much in for two weeks. With an allocation of one to three days per city you’ll either see nothing but the airport or train station, taxi, and your hotel room, or at most you’ll have a day to explore. Without knowing what it is you want to explore it’s hard to give advice, but I would keep it down to two principal destinations, with possible day trips to enhance the experience. Lake Como doesn’t close, it’s a lake. The towns around it are very nice a picturesque, for the most part. You could do worse than spending three full days in Bellagio, then spending the rest of your time in a city in Tuscany, or Rome.

This is doubly so with the kids along. Two one-week rentals would work well.

The weather in September is definitely better than in March, at least for Northern Italy: https://weather-and-climate.com/aver...ne,Milan,Italy
You could even end up with this in March: https://www.dreamstime.com/milan-ita...image111191489

With regard to the itinerary: this is definitely "chinese style", where you rush through, take a couple of pics, and leave again. If you really want to experience (and relax) a bit more, I would also skip some items and stay longer in others.
Maybe just do Milan / Venice / Tuscany (Florence) / Rome (in that order for logistics reasons). In Tuscany, there are lots of pittoresque little villages which you can check out (visually and food/wine wise !).
Going down to Naples / Amalfi (and back) will just add stress in my opinion.

A bit of advice about the beach, especially if you go to one in Italy. Pay for the private beach set up - the umbrella, lunge chairs, etc. Public beaches can be a mad house and it is just a nice bit of luxury at a not so steep price.

Thanks for all the advice. Normally we are pretty good about slowing down and just doing a few things. When I took my wife and sister to NYC we didn't see all the "tourist spots" however, I don't consider NYC our annual big trip. As discussed in other posts we aren't able to take as many trips compared to some of you. I still don't understand how a lot of you do it. Do you not own houses? Do you not have dogs or cats? Finding a dog sitter and house sitter is a nightmare for us, considering kids has made us as previous stated consider road trips over international travel. We spend about 30k a year on credit cards and a lot of those are welcome offer for the large amount of points. Are we missing something? That really is only good for 1 big trip and some smaller ones. We don't spend a ton on travel outside of points, so that might be the big difference.

What I meant by Lake Como being shutdown was the businesses surrounding it. I grew up with two local lakes and a river that had tourist coming to our area of the country quite often. However, it didn't have as much going tourist wise during the offseason and upon limited research I realized that Winter was still in effect in Northern Italy. So I figured it'd be hard to find a location to stay and experience some of the restaurants. Perhaps it is still a picturesque place to stop at for half a day??

Itinerary A

Milan(Arrival City) - 1 Day
Lake Como (Potential Half-day)
Venice or Florence - 2 days - Just to say we were there
Venice Or Florence - 5 days - whichever city we don't do for 2 days would get 5
Rome 5 Days
Pompeii 1 Day

That is a total of 14 days. Thoughts on this one?

Itinerary B

Milan - 1 Day
Florence or Venice - 5 Days
Rome 5 - Days
Naples/Pompeii/Amafi Coast - 3 Days

Itinerary C

Milan - 1 Day
Florence or Venice - 5 Days
Rome - 5 Days
Pompeii - 1 Day

I'm not sure where to place the last 2 days. Could do Florence or Venice 6 days and Rome 6 days. Could do some day excursions at a "home base" such as Florence or Rome. We could also skip Milan and wonder around it for a bit with luggage before heading towards our first "Home Base" and setting up shop for a while.

It is very hard based on our limited international travel for me not to want to toss in Venice or Florence for a day or two, just for my wife and I to say we were there once. We don't typical return to places that we have seen for our "big" international trips. We move to new locations each new time, so while we are open to reconsidering international travel with kids based on recommendations from this board. It could be years before we travel internationally again should we decide to road trip exclusively with kids or it could be years for us to return to Italy after this trip. Next on the list is Egypt, Japan, China, Paris and London. That is 5 years right there, that isn't mixing in my wife's preference for one big beach vacation such as the Maldives(Honeymoon location this year) every few years. So Bora Bora is on there, potentially Fiji and Tahiti(sp??). This would be 8 years.. If we didn't travel with kids that is 18 years before we could return..

I know this might all seem odd to you that we don't return for those of you who travel a lot. However, we haven't fell in love with a place that overwhelms us to return at the exclusion of new adventures or places. Anywho, I'm on a tangent now, my point is does any of these sound better from a slow point of view while also keeping our travel lifestyle somewhat in mind. We also aren't drinkers or foodies. So we don't normally go to places based on either of those.

Thanks!

Well yes, it is probably a difference in perspective. Most older and more experienced travelers are going to tell you to slow down, smell the roses, don’t try to see so many places in one trip. But we have all been you, taken many trips where we stayed at 5 or 6 places and now looking back think we should have made that two or three. It doesn’t mean we didn’t enjoy those trips, I know that I did. For myself, I made a trip something like yours, included a 2 night trip to Venice, and looking back if I were to do that trip again I would cut Venice out, save Venice for a future trip that might include Slovenia or Croatia. (Slovenia is great.) You are right it’s only three hour train ride from Milan and not very expensive so if that is what you want to do, go for it. If you are going in March I think it is sensible to stick to major cities because there is always something good to do there if the weather is bad.

I didn't go to Florence for the longest time. Finally went and loved it. BUT, what I loved were the museums. (Even though I have about a two hour limit for museums). If you go look into the Firenze pass. Best aspect is that I didn't have to wait in line (that may have changed).

Even though you've decided on Italy, I have an off the wall suggestion: Vietnam. Lots of stuff to see. There are temple ruins that are really neat. I'm a picky eater and hate fish and so I thought I'd starve, but the food is really good, even the fish. You can add a few beach days to the itinerary for your wife. I don't know if SE Asia will be open even by October of next year.

All of your itineraries have you ending with a day at Pompeii. While I think it is very much worth seeing (and to your question way back about Pompeii vs. Herculaneum - both can easily be done in a day (albeit a long one) but if you really want to choose one, I've always been more impressed with the ruins at Herculaneum), this is way out of your way considering your time constraints and agenda. If you absolutely have to fly out of Rome, as it sounds like you do, and you really are deadset on visiting Pompeii/Herculaneum, then I would fly to Naples from Florence or Venice (whichever you end up doing), and then head to Rome and end your trip there. This will be a smoother itinerary rather than worrying about getting back to Rome for your return flight.

I'll add one thing that I always consider when I'm looking into a trip and trying to decide how much to do - if it's a location that is very easy to travel to and has a ton of appeal, such as Italy, I prefer a slower itinerary because I know there's a decent chance I'll get back there at some point and can visit places I have not already. It's the harder to get to, more off-the-beaten-path destinations where I plan a much more active, tiring itinerary because there is a decent chance I won't get back there. Just something to consider.

I suggest a few things to consider:

1. 13 nights is not a lot of time to cover as much of the country as you are considering. Therefore, logistics really matter. Spend a little extra cash to make ground transport as easy and efficient as possible. For instance, instead of spending a day in Milan, when landing at Malpensa consider taking a car service directly to Venice. Yes, relative to the negligible cost of an award ticket it will be expensive but the convenience is totally worth it IMO. Or, consider flying directly to Venice. You can monitor award space for this option. And, even if fees are involved to change the tickets I think you will find very rewarding in the end
2. Think about what matters to you most and gives you the greatest enjoyment. Is it visiting famous museums and famous sites? Or does scenery really float your boat. I ask because while I am quite flexible, my spouse is okay with one or two museums and a couple of churches but otherwise really loves stunning scenery and quiet towns with "plus de charme".
3. Depending on your answer to 2), my suggestion is to focus on Venice, Florence and the Almafi coast. Venice is absolutely magical and normally swarming with tourists. Way off season actually plays into your favor, especially in the partial post covid world where mass tourisms will surely not be back to 2019 levels in Q1 2022.
4. Florence is very special and totally different than Venice. But splurge and stay in the very center so all sites are right outside your doorstep
5. It is early to visit the Almafi coast in March so weather is a risk. But the scenery is jaw dropipngly beautiful and very romantic. If you luck out with no rain then the advantage of going in March is avoiding the crowds, and they are legend. Normally I would suggest Positano but given your desire to visit Pompeii, Sorrento may be best. Personally, my favorite location is Ravello but that is not really suited for day tripping and is furthest away from Pompeii
6. You likely notice that I am skipping Rome. Obviously, it has its charms but it is very big city and after going to the museums and churches of Florence and the ancient sites at Pompeii/Herculaneum the Almafi coast is a nice balance as it is mostly about the scenery and local charm. Of course, if the Vatican is a must do for you then all bets are off. These are only my suggestions. I would suggest seeing if you can fly from Florence directly to Naples. The trains are perfectly fine but flying is quickest (see my note 1).

So, given the above I would do

1. 4 nights Venice, train to Florence ( you will be jet lagged so the first day or so will be tough, better to be lazy at first then ramp up the pace so while 3 nights in Venice is enough for me the extra night gives you the jet lag cushion)
2. 4 nights Florence, plane to Naples and car service to Sorrento Hotel (you can arrange via your hotel in Sorrento)
3. 4 nights Sorrento (of if you are so inclined Positano or Ravello), you seem very keen on the ancient sites, so you can a visit to both Pompeii and Herculaneum and I would not worry about sunburning in March
4. 1 night Rome airport (Fiumicino is a bit of haul from the city center so if your flight is pretty early better to stay at an airport adjacent hotel). I would also suggest flying from Naples to Rome for convenience.

Thanks! Will take everything under consideration. Important part is to travel again.

I realize that this is Flyertalk and everything, but I don't understand the advice being given to fly from Florence to Naples. (Assuming that you actually want to visit those cities and not just use airports as a jumping-off point.) The high-speed train takes only 3 hours, city center to city center and between Italo and FS (the two operators) there are lots of choices, schedule-wise. Are there even nonstop flights FLR-NAP?

Otherwise, I totally agree with all comments urging you to pare down. I'm never one of those dogmatic "Rome requires at least a whole week" people, but your itinerary will have you spending a huge chunk of time in transit.

A couple of other things that may have already been mentioned: If you really want to visit a specific museum, check out its closing days, if any. For example, if you're in Naples for one day, and it's a Tuesday, you can kiss goodbye to plans to visit the National Archaeological Museum. Similarly, forget about the Vatican Museums on a Sunday, except the last Sunday of the month, when they're free (and jammed). On the other hand, some of the biggies in Italy are open every day. Also, be aware that in the south especially, but also in other areas, many things including shops and historic churches close for several hours at lunchtime, so you may have less "usable" time than you imagine.

I'm currently planning my 12th trip to Italy, and I am by no means a high-salary individual. How do I afford it? Partly by staying in modest hotels, B&Bs, etc., that the average Flyertalker probably wouldn't consider staying in, by buying food at the salumeria or grocery store, by using public transit, etc. It works for me, but everybody's priorities (and financial circumstances) are different.

Good point about the high speed train service between Florence and Naples, if available.

My primary observation is, IMO, it is worth it to pay extra to keep the logistics quick and easy. While I find long distance train travel in Italy is very nice, the train stations themselves can be chaotic, with confusing signage and a bit stress inducing when it comes time to find your specific train and board with luggage (and I am guessing a 13 night trip will require at least a medium amount of baggage). I will never forget waiting in the Rome's Termini station for our trip to Naples. The track was not announced till very close to departure time and then it was a mad dash. And by then we had been in transit from the US for many hours as our entry point into Italy had been Milan/Malpensa. When planning the trip, a friend suggested having a car service meet us directly at Fiumicino and drive us right to our hotel in Positano. But the fee was well north of 350 Euros. We were penny pinching at the time so we rejected the idea. So, we took public transport from Fiumicino to Termini (itself a longer than expected schlep) and then a train to Naples and finally a cab to our hotel. It stretched out the journey by many hours and indeed was stress inducing. In making the mad dash to the train in Rome with luggage, a nicely dressed young woman appearing to work for the high speed train operator offered to help with luggage and find our reserved carriage and seats. How nice we thought! Well, when she demanded 20 euros per piece of luggage and would not leave until paid we understood how she really operated. We stood our ground, gave her a decent tip for the help and she backed off to find another rube. On the train ride back from Naples to Rome we knew the drill better and handled everything ourselves. But as we were getting settled, a nice elderly American couple entered our carriage looking quite pale and alarmed. Of course, I immediately asked if all was okay. They had encountered the same "service" that we experienced on the outbound journey when waiting for the train to depart Naples. The key difference was that the kindly gentleman offering to help took their train ticket indicating that he "needed" it to confirm that the couple was waiting at the correct location for the train---only to demand 150 euros from them before giving it back and letting them proceed. Of course, by this time the train had begun moving and there was nothing we could do. Moral of the story, nothing is as easy as it seems. So, when you don't know the language and understand there are a wide variety of trains operating on the same route with similar names, may be tired from travel and unfamiliar with the whole process, the journey can be somewhat stress inducing. To some, this is part of the experience and they shrug it off. For me, if I do encounter it, I accept as part of travel. BUT, if there is a way to avoid more complicated logistics by spending some money, I almost always select the most efficient option. I have traveled through Europe in recent years many times now. And I have found following this adage always is worth it to me in the end.

Japan, Italy and China are my top 3 most favorite countries, in the order listed. It is personal, of course.
China requires visa for US citizens.

Wanderlustfl. I appreciate the insights and this really helps..I have been doing train logistics and was like this can't not work. I hadn't thought of all the frustrating other part. I handle those frustrating parts during travel well, but I think my wife would say I complain a lot about them haha. I'll reconsider and pare down if possible. This might have been the most helpful post for me to truly see. I don't know if we will be able to or not.

Allset2travel mind sharing your personal reasons for those three ? I believe Japan, Egypt and Italy will be my favorites eventually but that is just a guess. I like the idea of China but don't know enough of their history currently. I'm a little weak on Asian countries history.

Would a better trip be to Cairo for the Pyramids if I'm look for historical stuff? Italy and Pyramids are my top two must see with Japan's Cherry blossom and Tokyo close behind..

Thanks for all the help guys! Loving this conversation, it is very helpful.

Well, about my personal preference for visiting Japan, Italy and China, not sure where to start.
First Japan: Love the culture, my wife and I both love their food (all kinds), and I am a travel photographer (Japan has plenty to shoot). Japan is the safest place to travel, IMHO. On top of that I had spent a few years working for a Japanese multi-national in hi-tech. Still have many friends in and around Tokyo. Cherry blossom and fall foliage are 2 best seasons to be in Japan. On the subject of Japanese Hanami, I had posted a trip report on FT:

https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/trip...=#post24795822

Below are images from various places in Japan, see what inspires you.
https://stefanofoto.smugmug.com/Asia-AU-NZ/Japan

Re Italy: Love the history, arts and culture; Museums and churches are tops. I spent many trips to Rome. Country side is amazing: such as Umbria, Tuscany, Amalfi Coast, Cinque Terre and many small towns in northern Italy, not to mention Lago Bellagio & Como. Love the Italian food from all regions. I feel at home in Italy.

About China: I didn't start going to China until 2008. I was on a mission trip to serve in south west region of China. I am hooked ever since. Been back a lot except during the pandemic. The country is vast and diverse. Love the train system which makes traversing the country so easy (without the airport hassle). China has a lot of photo-ops in terms of landscape and city-scape. The food is amazing by region. Has the longest history that spans 6,000 years. Many sections of the Great Wall one can climb.

Egypt: I had tried a number of times to go to Egypt in vain. Reasons varied, personal safety being one. I came as close as having a RTW DONE4 booked ex-CAI. First flight would have been on QR. But QR canceled way before my trip began, for political reasons. Oh well. For history buff, Egypt is a must. I hope I’ll make it there one day soon.

OK, enough about all that. Let's return to your itinerary. These are just suggestions with an emphasis on logistics (since we really know so little about your preferences).

Day Onein Milan: From MXP, take the airport shuttle bus (recall Autostradale?) to Stazione Centrale. Stay in a hotel near the station for the night. Recall a Hilton nearby among many non-brands. Drop off luggage and do the town. Please note Central Station may look a bit creepy at night, so just be careful of personal items.

Train to Venice: 3 to 4 nights in Venice(depends on your interest), 2 days to see Venice itself maybe enough. Murano Island requires half day. Use extra day(s) to plan day trip to some smaller towns in the Veneto Region.
In Venice, pick a hotel near the Venice Station if possible for convenience, but not a big deal. Note most narrow alleys (streets) are paved with cobblestones and tough on rollers. Of course water taxi (gondola) is available.

Train to Florence (avoid taking the train mid-day for obvious reason). Stay 4 nights to include some day trips (lots of candidates but depends on your interest: Lucca, Pisa, Siena). If you do only one, I’d do Siena. Allow 2 days for Florence itself.

Train to Rome. Stay here for the BALANCE of your days (yes, sorry to suggest you drop Pompei because of logistics). Book a hotel near a Metro Station or a Local Train Station (very important). Rome will get you busy every day. Make sure you have good walking shoes. Day trips are possible. Hope you like history, architecture, museums, Vatican, markets, gardens and food etc…

To do Pompei and the Amalfi Coast, a rental car would better serve the purpose (pick up & return FCO ). Otherwise you have to book private transportation (public transportation available but plenty of hassle for a first timer to Italy). You can join tours once you settle down in a hotel. If you indeed go to Amalfi, Ravello would be my choice as base.

Push comes to shove, you can do Pompei & Mt Vesuvius Tour from Rome. May cost about $160 per pax and a long day. Hey, you don’t need to carry luggage and can catch up on sleep while on the bus! I am sure you can check it out online.

I had a car when I did the Amalfi. I based in the south, a town named Salerno (not only cheaper for hotels, but it had big city amenities, think restaurants). Seafood and pasta were marvelous!

Did you detect a common theme above: FOOD! Yes, food is part of the culture in any culture.

Hope you are having fun in planning your trip!

OP - you may wish to reconsider this idea of not traveling with children. We have four and took them all over the place. Many countries (Italy is a prime example) are welcoming to families with children. And your kids will appreciate the memories you give them, and will hopefully become more interesting and inquisitive people in the process.

Hello Everyone,

I think there is some confusion and I haven't been clear based on the conversation bouncing around at the time. We currently don't have Children. The reason the conversation was focused around kids at the start is we plan to have them very soon and were considering not traveling after we had them internationally. This is why the trip is labeled as a Potentially Last Trip for a while. It should be Potentially last international trip for a while. So kids won't be an issue, it will be my wife and I. On a side note, we are reconsidering international travel if we have kids, because of this post. We were pretty much 90/10 on not doing any before I posted here, its probably somewhere between 60/40 to 75/25 now not doing it. So we have moved our opinions quite a bit thanks to your insights.

I apologize I wasn't clear on our preferences. I thought I had been the trip is for historical views, not food, not immersion in the current culture. I feel we will experience all of that and are open to it as we go along, but I'm not going specifically to taste the food and we aren't really drinkers. A little backstory is that during college I spent 6 weeks in Athens and I was able to pop over to Rome with friends for a long weekend. We spent 1 day in Venice and 2 days in Rome, it was all the time we had. We missed the Sistine Chapel, because it was closed on Sunday and we came the weekend after the free one. Anywho, I was not that impressed with Venice while we were there. It felt like we walked the entire city in 12-18 hours and then took an overnight train to Rome, at least I recall it being overnight, I could be miss remembering that. Just for clarification sake, I have been there, but my wife has not been anywhere in Italy. The we I refer to here, is my college friends.

Pompeii is a must and I'm okay with losing a day to travel there, see it and return from a "home base". The Vatican is a must, my wives family was Catholic at one point before she was born or her extended family was, not exactly sure. The reason Milan is on the list is we have enough points to fly into it and fly out of FCO that allows us to use points for hotel stays. I can get the entire stay on points all 14 days along with trip travel. My Capital One should have enough points to pay for a majority of train costs and other miscellaneous travel. So that is why the preference is arrival MXP and departure FCO. Plus my wife wanted to be a model when she was younger, but decided against it. I thought seeing Milan the fashion capital of the world or close to it, would be cool for her.

I'm really torn on Venice. You all speak highly of it, but it smelled during July when we were in college. We walked a lot of it, I have pictures with tons of birds flying around me, road a gondola, though my wife hasn't. So I am just not sure about it, but I haven't research it or Florence yet. I am starting too, I know mostly about Rome/Pompeii/Herculaneum.

We are not huge international travelers. We do roughly 1 trip a year, that credit card points pay for and those trips are mixed with beach vacations. Our chances of coming back to Italy are very tiny compared to the rest of you who range from Travel photographers to Independently wealthy people with houses in Italy. It would be a great Luxury, but both of us have so many other places we want to see and say we have been the list is so long. I want to see Japan, China, Hong Kong, Egypt(1st on List tied with Italy), London, Paris, and Germany. My wife wants to see Athens, to see where I did study abroad, Bora Bora, Fiji and any other major beach place.

If you take the scenario above with 1 international trip a year and that doesn't include us wanting to find time for Mexico/Canada exploration it would be ten years if we traveled with kids before we think we could return or perhaps 20 if we waited till the kids are 10 like we had planned. It is why we were trying to see the major cities to kind of checklist them, so to speak.

Rome/Pompeii are the heart of our trip. However, the important things in Rome is the Vatican, Sistine Chapel, Colosseum and perhaps the fountain. We aren't huge museum people, but we will check a few out here and there. I don't have to spend hours at each site as a person. I just like the fact I've been there, that I can speak a little about it with others and I do value when we have time to deep dive, but it isn't a must for either of us. We aren't people that rush around either, we take a leisurely pace and tend to pick 3-5 must sees while in every place. If we make it to three of them, great if not, its a bummer but no huge loss.

Life could change for us and we could start traveling more, we have discussed that as well. It is so funny how people view heavy travelers. We are known as massive travelers with my wives family and our friends, because we do one huge trip a year and then about 5-7 small ones within the US. If we traveled like those of you who have done so many places and the same places so many times, I don't know what our friends and family would call us haha. They think we travel the world as is.

I hope this better explains why I was trying to see so much, where our mind is, etc. There is a lot we don't know. Such as will we travel with kids in the future, will we try to find more time/resources for more international trips or will we finally fall in love with a place that lets beckons us to return over and over there?? I don't know any of those answers. I have been to NYC multiple times and to Chicago multiple times. I don't love returned trips there to be quite frank, I enjoy going and normally we go with people who haven't went before as a weekend trip or our traveling friends who love Chicago. That is another thing, our traveling friend couple is having a kid in December. They aren't traveling for multiple years, which is one reason we started thinking about what we would do.

I know this is a long post and a lot to explore. I wanted to be clarify and explain our focus. I know it probably seems like we are crazy, I can just see the branching paths before us, knowing that our days of doing International Travel maybe put on pause for reasons that you might not understand, but make sense for us.

Does this change anyone's view of how we should hit Italy? Of where we should go? Anything I can clarify? I truly apologize that I haven't explained this very well. I thought I was pretty clear on the reasons "history" and Pompeii..

Thanks

[QUOTE=allset2travel;33424579]Well, about my personal preference for visiting Japan, Italy and China, not sure where to start.
First Japan: Love the culture, my wife and I both love their food (all kinds), and I am a travel photographer (Japan has plenty to shoot). Japan is the safest place to travel, IMHO. On top of that I had spent a few years working for a Japanese multi-national in hi-tech. Still have many friends in and around Tokyo. Cherry blossom and fall foliage are 2 best seasons to be in Japan. On the subject of Japanese Hanami, I had posted a trip report on FT:

About China: I didn't start going to China until 2008. I was on a mission trip to serve in south west region of China. I am hooked ever since. Been back a lot except during the pandemic. The country is vast and diverse. Love the train system which makes traversing the country so easy (without the airport hassle). China has a lot of photo-ops in terms of landscape and city-scape. The food is amazing by region. Has the longest history that spans 6,000 years. Many sections of the Great Wall one can climb.

Egypt: I had tried a number of times to go to Egypt in vain. Reasons varied, personal safety being one. I came as close as having a RTW DONE4 booked ex-CAI. First flight would have been on QR. But QR canceled way before my trip began, for political reasons. Oh well. For history buff, Egypt is a must. I hope I’ll make it there one day soon.

I have heard that Japan is super safe. That is exciting to hear from another and Egypt for personal safety reason has caused a hesitation for me. I worry about my wives safety. I have heard Cairo is safe, with low crime from some research, but that women can be harassed quite often. So we just never have felt comfortable and the last time we consider it like 5 years ago I believe there was political unrest there, I can't remember. We haven't considered it for a while, covid made us realize if I was ever going to see it, we should not wait and start reconsidering it.

What type of China mission trip? I have a college friend who met his wife in China on a multiyear trip to China to spread the word of God. I hope to travel to China someday with him and his wife.

Very cool. We are considering mission work too. We need to find a church first.

With respect to children, what I meant was don’t give up travel just because you are going to have children, take them along!

Fiji - this place is very different from what most people have in their heads. It’s not a romantic South Pacific place. It’s quite dirty and not particularly nice. Forget beaches. Also Bora Bora, hmm, some ok hotels but there are nicer places in the Pacific.

Hi Dreamwalker, yes, at least for me your perspective does impact my recommendations. But just one thought----Florence is also a fashion city as it is home to at least 4 well known designers (Ferragamo, Gucci, Cavalli and Pucci). Also, it is my understanding that there are rather famous fashion outlets within a day's drive of the city. So, if your wife wants to do some shopping while in Italy this would be a possibility.

It sounds like Venice is not a must do for you. But iin terms of Milan, given my comments above,, I would say a stay in Florence would be a better bet than Milan. You say you are using points to fly to Italy. I assume you mean an award ticket. If so for a relatively nominal fee, you could change the entry point into Italy to Florence. Many major hub airports have service directly into Florence. Malpensa is a pain too as it so far outside the city. I have been to Italy at least 10 times now, and only use Malpensa as a gateway to Como (as it is only 60 miles away) and Liguria (where Cinque Terre is located). So, I still suggest ditching Milan. Of course this is only my perspective. In my opinion, Florence is much, much nicer. True you see the glamour side of Milan if you watch videos from fashion week. But most tourists will never see this side of Milan without some sore of access. For me, it is a big industrial city--sort of like the Frnakfurt of Italy. Also, I sense that Venice is not the top of your list. So with this, I suggest:

1. 4 nights Florence
2. 4 nights Rome
3. 4 nights Amalfi coast
4. one night at Rome airport in advance of flight exiting Italy

As to logistics, I suggest changing your ticket to fly into Florence directly. The airport is not far from the city and you can just grab a cab to your hotel. Not sure what alliance you are flying, but if Star Alliance, both Swiss and Lufthansa fly there. I would bet most other major carriers do as well (I did a quick check and it is possible from Zurich, Frankfurt, Munich, Paris and Amsterdam, to name a few).

Another poster suggested Ravello for the Amalfi coast. It is truly stunning. But what they failed to mention is that it is not the easiest locale to use as a base for visiting the entire Amalfi coast. So, I suggest Sorrento. If weather permits you could even take a short ferry ride to Capri, which without the tourists, it is a beautiful island. Also Sorrento is closest to Pompeii, which I understand is a must do,

Finally, spending a night at Rome airport may not sound particularly appealing. But if you keep your exit point from Italy to Rome, Sorrento is a distance away. Too far for catching a morning flight from Rome and, really even for afternoon travel if the trip is taking you home to the US. So, for practicality reasons I added the Rome airport night. But keep in mind, as with your outbound journey, you could change the return to leave from Naples. It is has service to a wide variety of international hubs which connect to many USA bound flights.

Originally we were flying business class from jfk to mxp for 50k points with virgin through delta. The return flight was 77500 returning to Minneapolis.

It's the best we could find so far. I started searching in Rome. We were planning to just do the south of Italy. I had a close friend recommend Sorrento too.

So sorry. This topic is technically OT. Further discussion could risk pushing this thread to OMNI. Hope you understand.
If you like, please msg me.

BTW, Amalfi Coast includes Sorrento.

OT = off topic?

Omni = Omni everything?

Not sure I do understand tbh. What rule did I exactly break??

We try to stay on topic in these threads. Off topic discussion can lead to a thread being closed or sent to OMNI, which is a general, wide-open forum with little to do with FT. It’s also not accessible to new members.

okay. sounds good.

Thanks.

Have a good one guys. I think I have a good idea of how to handle the trip. I appreciate all the opinions.