Maestro's Europe Trip - Newbie here.. Please be Patient
 

Many thanks to the FT community for help.. Its been a great L/Earning experience for me the last couple of years.. and trips have been getting more complex and longer than ever..

Generally when we fly, we vacation for 3 weeks at a time nowadays.. This latest Europe Booking will have us gone for 7 weeks.. so the longest trip that I've ever taken in my life.

We weren't planning to book, but there is a book Business Class for economy promo on AE I couldn't resist.. and we've been wanting to visit Europe for awhile now, so decided to jump into it with both feet. I've never been to Europe but my wife has about 19 years ago.. so we need a quick refresher about everything. We have a 2 year old and a 6 year old.. and having travelled 2 1/2 months this past year, we feel comfortable to embark on this journey.;.

So some prelimnary questions are.. Do we need Visa for the any of the surrounding countries in Europe after landing in London Heathrow.

Our dates are as follows.. YYC-YYZ-EWR, stop 6 days, EWR-Frankfurt-LHR, destination July 16th to August 23rd, LHR-YYZ, stop 5 nights, YYZ-YYC

Didn't know, but we are also there for the whole time during the summer olympics.. so we could visit London on arrival, leave say to France or some other country, come back for the Olympics, leave for some other country, and comeback to leave.

Any ideas what a family of 4 with 2 small children should do.. We planned to hit up 10 countries, and the Olympics is throwing a kink into it.. so maybe only 5 countries? We'd like to visit Disneyland France.. Anyone have experience with this as well.. Some countries we're thinking of is Germany, Switzerland, Scotland, France.. I've a cruise would work as well..

Passport documentation enough to enter countries.. How bout rental vehiclesd, does everyone drive the wrong side of the road compared to NA? What are some things to watch for? How bout a cruise?.. this has been suggested a couple of times..

The dates of the Olympics is approximately July 27th to Aug 15th..

Any advice is greatly appreciated.:)

For countries belonging to the Schenge Area you don't need a visa. You can stay up to 90 days in a period of 180 days. Please refert to this article to see which countries belong to the Schengen Area Wikipedia: Schengen Area

It's only the U.K. and Ireland which you would have to worry about as far as driving on the left side (wouldn't call it wrong side). Renting a car is pretty simple everywhere, though keep in mind that driving in Europe is generally a bit different. Also, if you want a car with an automatic transmission you will probably want to reserve the car(s) a bit in advance as there tend to be far less of them.

Personally, I would not want to be in London when the Olympics are there, it will be crazy and hotels expensive. So either do London and surroundings first or last - I would say last since many people with be going to early to prepare.

Depending on what activities your family likes depend on the itinerary I guess. Do you like the big cities or the rural stuff ? If you plan on just the cities, I might look into a trains. Of course packing with kids will add a lot - driving might be the best option, especially on the continent.

For the 6/7 year old, they might enjoy Legoland in Windsor. That is on our itinerary for out trip.

Thanks for the Great tips.. I was under the impression that driving was a no go.. getting used to the idea maybe having to travel on trains.. but wrapping my head around the luggage scenario..

So automatics are rare? In Ireland and Britain.. do you need an international driver's licencse to be allowed to rent? I've heard this in the past, but an AAA travel agent told me that I can rent, but driving the vehicle on the other side make sme think that I need to have an international driving designation..

Hotel rooms are expensive, but I lowered my standards to fit the budget a bit.. and out a bit further so far.. we'll have to see if I can get some reasonable accomodations closer.. right now in Gatwick, and looks to be an hour and a half to venues.. but the other options are like more expensive, but cuts a half an hour off the travel time during the Olympics..

Regarding documentation requirements.. I just need a passport? I'm planning to visit England, France, possibly Ireland, Scotland, Italy, Belgium, Rome..

I'm implying you are an US citizen.

You just need a passport. No visa needed. France, Italy and Belgium are part of the Schengen Area in which you can stay up to 90days. The UK and Ireland are not part of Schengen but you also don't need a visa. Passport is enough.

Automatics in the UK and Ireland are rarer, which is often a good thing if you actually want an automatic. If you book the most economical automatic there is and book it nicely in advance, it is not uncommon to arrive and find that they don't have it. So you will get bumped up to the most economical category which does have an automatic. This can often mean an upgrade of 2 or 3 classes or a VW Polo up to a VW Golf.

You do not need an international driving permit, your US driving license will do just fine.

but you definitely need to look into distances ... Scotland to Rome ... that's alot. do you want actually see something of europe or just city 1. seen. check. city 2. seen. check ... nighttrains and airplanes may be an option, but be aware that the LCC have very strict luggage policies ...

... so my advice is: less countries and try to build up (using a map and timetables.

european railway timetables can be found here: http://www.bahn.com/i/view/DEU/en/index.shtml more information in the european rail forum here on flyertalk,too.

for flights, look at www.skyscanner.net (this includes most LCC,too)

if you have any detailled questions - don't hesitate to come back. and for UK, Italy and France - please check the destination forums here on FT :)

I'm Canadian, so the passport should work, and no need for Visas.. One travel agent suggested I take a cruise originating from Rome.. I think I'll stick to a France or England origination.

On the topic of cruises.. which cruise ships would you guys suggest would not charge an arm and a leg for a 6 and 2 year old? I've found Royal Carribean to be very reasonable, and want to book it, but its costing close to $5,000 canadian for a week..

I picked up Taekwondo tickets for the final on the tenth.. So got 4 events.. Track and Field, Taeqwondo, Synchronised Swimming and Women's Volleyball.. all medal events..

I'm thinking this might be enough events over 5 nights.. or should I stay longer.. Perhaps for the closing ceremonies we could visit Olympic Park and take in the Closing Ceremonies outside.. what do you guys think..

Good tips on the rental vehicles.. I didn't think this was an option.. I heard parking is insane, but so is Calgary, and San Francisco.. I'm used to paying $30 per day.. How are the rates there..

So my travel agent tells me I can't take extended tour packages with a 2 year old.. so that is why I'm looking into cruises.. I've got from July 17th to Aug 7th before we hit the the last 5 days of the Olympics.. So I'm thinking a 7 night cruise, Disneyland France for 5 nights, possibly before hitting the cruise.. Once done, it looks like with the cruise option I took out we'll be finished by July 30th.. so what to do with an extra 8 days with the family? Go to the olympics early? The Disney and cruise seems like family friendly.. Maybe we'll hit Paris after the cruise and do some sight seeing..

but we don't want to be caught not getting a train back to London.. Can't book the Eurostar this far ahead it seems.. thanks for the help!

do you really want to do Disneyland Paris? while being in France, there's so much more to do ... and it's not that different from Disney in USA ...

Yeah.. I was looking at the attractions and they are imilar to the ones in the US.. But with a 6 and 2 year old, they love Disney..

I gave up going to Disney World for Christmas this year, we went last year for 3 weeks and had blast.. So figure being in Europe for 5 weeks, we should be able to handle 5 days in Disneyland Paris.. would be a novelty I suppose..

Yes lots to do in France.. Probably with the cruise, we'll end up a good 2 and half weeks before going to the Olympics..

So without the ability to take extended multi day tours.. what tours would you suggest in Paris? lusury (a moderator) is a Virtuoso agent so can get me a concierge upgrade at an intercontinental hotel.. So one a few more items re finalized, I'll have him book something for me..

I thought the same, but the annoying thing about Disney is they sort of have parents over a barrel, so whilst the kids are basking in the Disney magic, the parents are left wondering how come they just forked out 50€ for a bad steak on a paper plate and with plastic cutlery when far better fare is available in Paris.

I wouldn't go again, but its not my call

I got an upgrade to a BMW 320d this way in Madrid once. Normally I get a manual when I'm in Europe, but I was recovering from a badly broken wrist on that trip and couldn't shift gears.

Any tips for food down in Euro Disney? We did three weeks in Disney World for Christmas Break last Christmas, and Disneyland for 8 days over the summer..

Is it actually worse at Disneyland Paris for food? The rooms seem much more reasonably priced down in Paris.. But maybe that's where they will get us, is the cost of food..

Any tips for Euro Disney from anyone?

That's a lot of Disney...almost a month!

Food at EuroDisney is pretty good overall if you eat in the restaurants rather than the fast food places. Those i would steer clear of.

You might get a good deal to stay a couple of nights in one of the hotels in the park, and from what i've heard, they aren't bad. There are many more in the surrounding towns which are reasonably priced. Try and pick one near a train station to make your ride to the park easier.

When you're done with the park which you need a day for, stay in Paris and sightsee there. I don't know if you've been before or not, but even if you have, Paris is far more entertaining than EuroDisney.

Never been.. we are Disney Connoisseurs so we are planning 5 days at Euro Disney..

We are also planning a cruise because.. ugh.. Land Tour companies won't take our business because of our two year old.. and most of the cruise companies charge an arm and a leg for children just to stay in the same room. I did find that Royal Carribean only charged $199 per child.. so I booked an option with them and need to decide by December 14th whether or not to pull the trigger. The base price for Oceanview Balcony is $1,908 per adult, and its the Western Mediterranean Cruise that leaves on August 13th.. I've found a Baltci Russia Cruise that would be perfect.. leaves 26th for 12 days and gets back to Stockholm, as we're booked into a hotel currently on the 7th, with one event per day for 4 days at the Olympics.. but my wife wants to do Mediterranean, which leaves visiting Paris 7 days before having to get back to London for the games on the 7th.

I like the cruise because its like going on a tour.. the food is taken care of, but I imagine land excursions are big bucks based on my research during the stopovers..

Accomodations in Paris seems reasonable.. would like to spend a bit of time there for sure..

5 days seems like an awfully long time at Disney. I had been on everything multiple times in a day and a half. But if that's your thing.

I can see the appeal of the cruise with regards to the handling of your kids, but i can't help thinking you'll be spending so much time at sea and transferring between the ship and land.

I'm not sure on pricing, but you might consider using the good ferries which run between Stockholm, Tallinn, and Helsinki. Rent a car and do some exploring. I would prefer this, as when you don't want to do anything, you don't have to, but you can decide when rather than sitting around waiting to arrive at the next destination, and then waiting again to get off the ship.

Thanks.. rides is one thing.. but we want to hit up character meals, nice sit down restaurants, enjoy the shows, evening night out.. as well as go on rides multiple times..

A novelty really to visit Euro Disney as most NAers don't get to visit a foreign Disney.. It would be neat to hit up Hong Kong Disney, and Tokyo Disney as well.. hopefully next year we'll pass through to Singapore and stop over HKG..

The cruises we're looking at have one or two days at sea.. but there are multiple stop overs we don't get to see unless we are on a cruise.. Any tips to prebook some of the excursions to avoid getting throttled on the pricing of tours.. Not having the ability to go on a land tour is a bummer.. but I've never been on a cruise before, never really wanted to do so before, but we are seeing the benefits of being catered going around in a ship, getting fed.. relaxing instead of worrying about the kids not having fun.. It will be a nice novelty for sure..

Unfortunately the majority of cruise lines are charging adult prices for kids.. so I just want to avoid those outfits to send a message.. that's why we're interested in Royal Carribean as child prices seem reasonable compared to the other cruise lines..

Just booked in Croydon, accomodations for the Olympics.. 20 minutes door to door via train to the Olympics.. called the Hallmark Hotel Croydon.. a 4 star for $212 cdn per night.. should I keep this one? Dates are August 7th to August 12th for 5 nights.. we're thinking adding on a 6th night for good measure.. take in the closing ceremonies on site.. Site reviews were 2 out of 5.. but reading the reviews, most of the low scoring reviews were prior to their 2 million pound reno.. post reno reviews, most were 5 out of 5..

Thanks for the feedback.. lots to learn.. learning each day..

Which cruise would you guys pick?.. 7 day western meditteranean beginning July 23rd, or 12 night Scandinavia and Russia Cruise (just getting back on August 7th to check in on the evening of August 7th.. before hitting Olympics for the next 5 days.. so a bit of cruise lag)..

Driving in the UK and mainland Europe is perfectly traightforward - a couple of hundred million of us manage every day :) The advice about booking an automatic is good - they are not rare but neither are they standard and rental companies assume that, if you've booked one, you might not be able to drive a manual.

If you do hire a car, make sure you return it in the same country you collect iut - otherwise it get horrendously expensive. Also, it doesn't make sense to take a UK car out of the UK or a continental car to the UK. Don't try to run a car in London - parking and congestion charges make it a crazy option.

My wife gritted her teeth and took our two children (7 & 12) to Disneyland Paris at Easter - she was very impressed by the hotel. I'll try to find which one it was.

London is likely to be horrendous during the Olympics, you really should think about whether you want to get involved. Croydon, by the way, is probably the dreariest suburb in the UK - possibly a contender at a European level... I can't imagine anything worse than being there then - most Londoners are planning to leave :)

As others have suggested, especially with children, I would urge you not to try to fit in too much. Although it looks small, travel is typically slower in Europe and you risk spending more time travelling than enjoying. With a few esceptions - the Alps, parts of Scotland, for example - there will be little pleasure in the driving. Mix trains, planes & automobiles judiciously and you will still be a ble to see a great deal in the time you have. Try the overnight train from Paris to Venice, for example.

Although my home city is now Glasgow, I have to say you should go to Edinburgh as a base for visiting Scotland. It's a genuinely stunning city with much to see and do. On the outskirts, in the old port of Leith, the retired Royal Yacht Britannia is well worth a visit.

A further thought! We are very ken on city breaks around Europe and always now book apartments, not hotels. Two bedrooms mean we don't have to sit in the bathroom after the children go to bed :D and there isn't the morning panic to get everybody dressed in time for the breakfast deadline. A few boxes of creal and some bread and we have complete flexibility - plus many hotels charge ridiculous prices for breakfast...

It also provides flexbility in the evening - we can eat out if we want to or, if the boys are really tired, cook something "at home".

It's easy to rent an apartment in any of the larger European cities from only a few days - you're not committed to a week. Just Google it!

Cost-wise, it's typically much the same as a hotel.

We've done this in Barcelona, Paris, Venice, Rome, Lucca, Oslo and various UK locations over the past couple of years and wouldn't go back to hotels.

FIVE days is far, far (far) too long. You are frankly wasting time, and I actually like Disneyland Paris a lot better than any of the US parks. Getting to/from the parks to area hotels, and between the parks, takes minutes. It compares more to DL and DCA than WDW for distance. I suggest 2 to 2.5 days maximum.

Pet peeve: people who say they are 'going to Europe'. You are going to visit some very different, very diverse countries, and the advice which applies to one won't necessarily apply to another, or to all, or to many.

I would not plan on driving for the most part, unless you are planning trips to countryside or out of way locations. That means not needing to drive if you are visiting 'top' attractions in the UK - train will generally be less stressful and easier to manage. Driving in Germany, France, and some other western European countries is doable if visiting smaller cities/countryside, but forget the car for many cities and historical areas. If you need an automatic, book on sites such as sixt.ca vs sixt.de as you can guarantee an automatic on the .ca site.

Ayrmiles gives you excellent advice but I think that Glasgow is one of the most underrated cities on earth. Edinburgh is the shiny sparkly sister but Glasgow had a lot of really special places. They are a short, easy train ride apart.

And glad to see that you are getting similar honest advice here re your Olympics plan as on your other thread. Really, Southall, Croydon, Heathrow, Gatwick, or any other place you are considering are setting you up for a most miserable time. Can you sell your tickets on the resale site, and start over? Or shorten to two events? If you don't want to go that route, then seriously consider using a professional agent specialising in Olympic travel. They most likely have access to blocks of rooms set aside for wholesalers and can get you in a decent location, rather than the places you keep listing.

It's perfectly possible to waste a large amount of money seeing very little on a 'trip to Europe'. Five days at Disneyland Paris, five days at the Olympics (which I think you said was over $7,000 for tickets?), a cruise with short (expensive) port excursions, and you are looking at a very large sum of money for a very hectic time. My advice is slow down, plan lots of down time, don't move around too much, don't rent a car for most of the trip, and don't do so much of the 'must do' tourist things which people may tell you are 'must sees'.

We spent 8 days in Disneyland in California over the summer and barely crammed in everything we wanted to do.. So 5 days is a bit short for us, but we'll try and make do..

Thanks for the advice received.. I agree with everyone not to rent a vehicle for the most part but its good to know that its an option.. I think the cruise, although its a tourist trap will get us around to places a bit more relaxes.. taken care of at all levels, that we can just enjoy the stopovers and sightseeing..

Any advice on getting on the cruise and getting off the day before we head out to the Olympics.. I think we'll stop at 4 events, and possibly extend our stay one more night to enjoy the closing ceremonies festivities..

I want to try out a bunch of different cities, and a land tour would have been perfect, but simply not offered for children 4 and under which is really dissapointing.. Even the family tours offered by Trafilgar states only children 5 and above..

We're planning to train around everywhere.. not that I'm opposed to riding the bus, but I've got it in my mind it'll be a bit faster and less confusing.. but maybe I'm missing something here?

I guess Croydon is a bit dreary.. but all I'm concerned about is getting accessibility to a train station.. walking accross the street that takes a conservative 5 minutes and having the ability to catch a train no problem.. Reviews of other single female travellers and families seem safe.. I'm a big 6'5" guy, so if a single female traveller feels safe, that goes a long ways I guess in the reviews..

I wanted to stay longer for the Olympics and was shopping for a few more tickets.. Didn't want to go overboard so decided that having one event per day was plenty.. and hopefully food can be found.. I looked at the Olympic food brochure so it seems that there is mass organization and thought thats' gone into providing food for the games.. So hopefully, we can find some sit down restaurant options at the venues.. or figure out a way to get some tickets to hit up some of the hospitality lounges.. Plus one event a day would give us some flexibility to hit up some Olympic festivities that don't require a ticket..

So when do you guys think we should leave the games to continue on our journey? The day of the closing ceremonies or the day after so that we can enjoy the festivities?

We did the 7 days RCCL western Mediterranean cruise in 09 as a family trip for my parents' 50th anniversary. RCCL was a nice ship for younger children for I had nephews and nieces under 6 and they seemed to be preoccupied.

However, Mediterranean cruising during the summer months can be hot and humid. There is also quite a long ride from port to the central part of cities.

I also made the mistake of "this might my my family's last trip together to some of these places" and not pacing ourselves. So every day it was: grab buffet breakfast and load up the backpack with snack and liquid, get off the ship for excursion, rush back post excursion and clean/dress up for family dinner during the early seating (24 of us), immediately to bed so we can repeat the routine for the next day.

Much of my year and certainly my summer has been in Med cruise ports. It is interesting to see the tourists and the package tours and how much they try and cram in and rush around trying to see and do it all, especially during the very hot humid summer months.

I am also shocked reading some of the cruise blogs/sites about how much people are willing to pay - upwards of 800-1000 Euros for instance for a 'day tour' of Rome from the cruise ship with a driver. :eek:

Travel doesn't have to be expensive in order to enjoy things, and often taking a slower pace is less costly as well as more enjoyable. OP, we have pointed out to you before how overpriced many of the multi-day bus tours are, especially many of the North American based or targetted ones, and how little value they really provide.

I still strongly, strongly, and again strongly encourage you not to waste five days at Disneyland Paris. There simply isn't enough to do there to merit it, and even in peak season one can reasonably see and do almost everything in two days. With children that age, you won't be able to ride all the rides anyways, and you cannot equate it to WDW or even DL because the systems are different, guests are different, and tastes are different. It is also much easier to get around because the vast majority of families (other than from the UK or America) don't bring strollers, and there is thus far less congestion in the parks.

There are places where the train isn't really an option. My part of the world can be an example - RVO Bus gets one around to some of the really must see areas in a much more convenient (and cheaper, and faster) fashion than the train, and often goes where the train does not.

On another thread I pointed out to you that some of the tour packages can run close to $30,000 for a family of four for a week. That is just outrageous, and you don't need to spend anywhere near that even for seven weeks, if you are willing to be somewhat more like a local.

So you recommend RCCL.. but its hot and humid.. How bout the Scandinavian Russian cruise? Do you think that the weather is lighter going towards Russia, and more bearable.. If we don't hit the Scandinavian Cruise this time, we'll likely try to hit it up eventually..

Good to know that the ship is good for kids.. Did you find the tours sold from RCCL reasonably priced.. I understand reading material its a bit of a tourist trap on most cruise ships, but is RCCL fair.. seems fair on the children side of things on board.. did RCCL charge an arm and a leg for children to attend the excursions..

Different strokes for different folks.. most people I know would agree with you and not do Disney for so long.. for us, we only do Disney.. In Florida this past Christmas, all 20 days at Disney.. yes, no Universal, Sea World.. no nothing.. and 8 entire days at Disneyland this past summer.. people thought we're out to lunch.. we just love Disney and know that this isn't the way people go about doing Disney.. If we could stay longer than 5 days we would at Euro Disney.. why rush through everything.. and there's going to be a tonne of restaurants, events, shows, fireworks, that we will want to go through.. Plus Disney in a different country and a language I don't speak, I have a feeling it'll take us more than 5 days.. because we want to do everything..

I read on some of these cruise blogs this book where if you pay $37, you will learn the secrets of how to save $$$ when dealing with cruise ships.. I almost purchased the buy button, but didn't as I'm weary about these get rich quick schemes.. even no risk return policy, I thought I'd better ask if anyone here has benefitted from material such as this book when it comes to saving money on cruise ships..

Any tips on how to deal with these type of cruise ships? Can you prebook and get a discount.. I would have done a land tour for 14 days for $8,000 for my family.. lower if its good quality.. but can't go on this land tour because none of the tour companies take 2 year olds.. which is a real downer for me..

So cruise ships is my bread and butter to sit back and relax a bit.. even if we don't do excursions at every stop, this will at least provide us the opportunity to be catered to and travelling around where we normally wouldn't travel going on our own.. My wife thinks I don't do much when we go it alone, so she wants to take tours.. I've started doing tours this past summer in San Francisco, and actually don't mind it.. Obviously we don't want to be squeezed but understand that tour operators have to make a buck.. but is there a way to deal with these cruise ships to stretch the buck a bit further?

You can go to the Disney parks in North America any time. I assume that based on your posts this is rather a 'once in a lifetime' trip.

You are going to FRANCE, to PARIS, and spending 5 days at Disney really is a great shame, even for a Disney fan. You are not going to Epcot, you are getting out into the real world where there is really a lot more to see and do.

Regarding your cruises, you are talking about two completely different parts of the world. Choosing based on hot vs warm isn't the best criteria. Don't you and your wife have specific interests (besides Disney), places you have a desire to see, etc?

If you plan to stay on the ship for most of the cruise, you are wasting your money by not seeing the ports. Cruises in European ports are not like the ones sailing in the southern parts of the United States; they are more like transportation between some of the major points of interest in the world than a floating hotel with the major point being relaxation and eating and using the spa.

I love Disney as does my 5 year old, but even she chose a weekend in Bristol over another weekend in Disneyland Paris, i seriously do not see how you can spend 5 days there, we spent 3 days there and that was more than enough time to see everything in both parks, in Disneyland California and Disneyworld however i could understand spending days in ditto Disneyland Hong Kong (my personal favourite, not been to Disneyland Tokyo) but not Disneyland Paris

Don't waste your money. You really need to visit a site such as CruiseCritic for cruise information; you'll get far more detail than you will on FT (although I personally think that FT tends to be more brutally honest than sites such as CruiseCritic which are often populated by somewhat blind fans) There just isn't much posting about crusing on FT, even on the cruise board.

By the way, 'Euro Disney' has not existed since 1995. It is Disneyland Paris.

I have read a lot of trip reports which make me shudder (such as the one where an American family went on a Disney cruise and was too scared to eat gelato because it is a 'strange' food) There are two excellent ones however which I can recommend on Mouseowners.com. One is by a moderator named tomandrobin, and outlines the trip he and his wife took to Italy and on a cruise. The other is a poster named Grandbuddy who went with his wife on a cruise and then to various places including London and Edinburgh, and cruised home on the Queen Mary 2. I highly recommend searching for those from earlier this year.

And again, it would really help us to help you if you gave us something more to work with than 'Europe', 'cruise', 'Disney', and 'Olympics'. What are your interests? History, museums, art, theatre, hiking, etc? And can you narrow down where you are planning to go, as currently you seem to be stretching from Scotland to the Baltics to the Mediterranean and I don't think that anyone can really help you with specifics until you give us some more specific information.

The Cruise option expired today, and let it go because really the prices haven't changed and I've got a lot more research to do before saying yes to the 7 night mediterranean cruise..

I've also inquired about how family friendly pricing wise for tours once porting as I've heard that it can be exhorbitantly expensive generally.. My cruise ship TA is looking into the list of activities and costs.. plus we're pricing out the Scnadinavian Russia Cruise to see how much 12 nights will set us back.. The dates are perfect and will have us land on time before hitting the Olympics..

Plus, reading some cruise travel blogs, I'm inquiring about signing up for their loyalty program prior to the cruise, which normally you have to have done a cruise on RCCL before they let you sign up.. I'm especially interested to see if I can land some good day tour packages when we port.. that way we've got our budget set out..

Another place and language, we don't want to feel rushed.. plus getting the fourth and fifth night doesn't dent the budget as much as the first 3 nights.. I seriously would have to micro manage our schedule to cram in everything we want to do beforehand, instead of showing up relaxed and going about each part of Disneyland Paris..

I think being in the environment is more important to us than going through everything once.. but its our first time there and we're actually more excited about visiting Disney per se than the rest of Europe.. We're there for 5 weeks so I'm sure 5 days based on the comments will be more than enough..

We would like to visit Disney Hong Kong and Toykyo.. how is Tokyo with the nuclear fallout?

In terms of cruise preferences we would prefer doing the Mediterranean for 7 nights but RCCL doesn't do this on a date that would work.. The 14 night cruise leaves on the 14th from France and we'll be getting there on the 17th..

My interest is architecture.. and seeing the sights and sounds of famous landmarks and regions.. but I doubt with the Olympics on, and the restraint from us being involved with land tours (because of restrictions my 2 year is not allowed on every land/hotel tour offered) that we're going to see much anyways.. Based on the advice to take it relaxed and go with a pace that is comfortable, we'll get the cruise planned out, and place the Disney trip, Paris, London, and convenient locations to travel to thereafter..

I should have read your signature to see that you are Canadian. Sorry for my mistake.

Yes you are right. No visas needed as Canadian.

About the Disneyland thing. You should really think about spending more time in real Paris than at Disneyland Paris. It is possible to make easy day trips from the resort to the city. So you can stay there and explore the park but you can also see the real Europe.

Luckily Disneyland has been spared the catastrophe, the city itself is pretty bad, everyone glows in the dark now. And the power plant fire has been put out by this guy:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-P7FAPOOp9-...Bfukushima.jpg

:D thanks Rankourabu.. That's supposed to be Paris and the monster standing on Disneyland Paris?

We are planning to visit Paris.. and the trip, even though 5 actual weeks in Europe is going to be alot shorter due to the cruise and the Olympics eating up a good couple of weeks.. So looks like just by constraints, we'll have to just do 4 days in Disneyland Paris before hitting the Cruise, come back and spend some time in Paris, and I probably want to get to the games early, so may extend our 5 nighter to 8 nights in London for the Olympics. But its' all preliminary, and I still have access to excellent venues, so may as well get down to the Olympics and enjoy some festivities.

After the Olympics, my wife still wants to see London and its offerings, so a good 5 days I imagine have to be fit in somewhere.. so we're trying to decide if we're going on another cruise for a week, or hit up Scotland..

So definitely France is in the mix after the cruise and before the Olympics.. any ideas what we could fit in for a good week after the Olympics?

You really seem to be jumping all over the place. Ireland, Scotland, Italy, Russia, Scandinavia, France?

Take a moment and look at a map, and then consider how you will get to all these places. Paris before AND after a cruise, and the cruise may be in one of two seas? Cruises leave from ocean ports, and Paris isn't near the ocean. If you do that much jumping around, you need to factor in full days for travel, even if you fly.

And now eight days in that Olympic situation you have planned for your family?

I really, really think that you are overextending yourself and overestimating how much you and your family can do. Even if you are all superhuman geniuses it is physically impossible to do all that you are listing on your various threads. If you do plan all that, I think that there will be a very large meltdown at some point. You simply cannot do it all, and if you try, you will be missing out on a lot of the enjoyment and experiences just to say that you 'did Europe'.

I recommend planning a full week in 3-4 locations, especially with such very young children, and planning a lot of down days with no big highlight events or trips. Eight days at the Olympics with small children will be exhausting for all of you. Even a cruise which is port intensive is exhausting for adults, and for children can be extremely difficult. Now take a cruise, 5 days at Disneyland, another cruise, 8 days at the Olympics, and 'hitting up Scotland', and it is a challenging itinerary even for the most fit adult.

You made me laugh with the super human geniuses comment lol.:D

No, I'm just throwing out some ideas, and we do not plan to visit more than 3 countries on land.. In fact, we are only planning to visit one other place, and that's happening after the Olympics..

So it looks like the following.. Disneyland Paris from the 18th to 23rd, on the 23rd go on the cruise for 7 days, then go back to Paris and visit for 3 or 4 days.. Get to the Olympics early because its a zoo like you said, and stay an extra day after the Olympics because its a zoo after that.. The next 5 or 6 days are up in the air.. back to London for the last 3 or 4 days.. 5 weeks in total..

We can get a nice Suite at Fairmont St. Andrews, so I'm strongly considering going up for some time, and doing some sight seeing up there before returning to London.. But we could conceivable just stay in UK and take in the sights and sounds..

Er, Scotland is part of the UK.

Unless you are going to golf, or have been to Scotland before and seen Edinburgh and Glasgow, I wouldn't recommend St Andrews. Free suite upgrade or not, you are again setting up your family for a very exhausting itinerary, especially if you plan to see some of the amazing things Scotland has to offer. Yes, the countryside is worth seeing, but again can be physically tiring, and you really shouldn't miss Edinburgh and Glasgow for your first trip.

And be aware of festival dates.

I'm a golfer, but on recent trips I chose to spend time with family rather than doing a round or so..

Speaking with my wife recently, I'm not too sure that I would want to go to Scotland unless there is a high speed train that gets us there pronto.. and I haven't got around to researching this possible part of the itinerary. I originally wanted to visit multiple countries on a multi-day land tour, but because this is no longer in the equation, we are having to re-evaluate the remaining time we have in the region.

But we've always wanted to see Scotland.. but is this the trip to do it.. So moreso the focus on the itinerary that has to be part of our trip, and after confirmation filling the other parts of the trip with sensible items that will make our first trip to Europe enjoyable and educational.. especially for my 6 year old..

The easiest way to get to Scotland would either be to fly or to take the sleeper train overnight, fastest train from London to Edinburgh is 4 hours :)

But that is to Edinburgh (or flying into GLA is similar to what Fred listed)

OP wants to go to St Andrews. Hopefully he is not envisioning travelling daily from St Andrews to Glasgow or Edinburgh, or worse driving himself into central Edinburgh (especially in August :eek: unfamiliar with driving on a different side of the road, in an unfamiliar country)

OP, cross St Andrews off your list if you are thinking of using that as a base for sightseeing.

And realise that August in Edinburgh is very busy during festival time, but I suspect will be even more busy with some travel diverted from London to other parts of the UK before/during/after the Olympics. I tend to stay in Glasgow and take the train into Edinburgh in August (unless I absolutely need to be there for more than 12 hours a day) but I don't recommend that for you.

That was more in reference to high speed trains (if you see one let me know ;)) unless you intend on all the family playing golf then i wouldn't go to St Andrews

:D 'High speed' :D I've spent many a day sitting on a train watching sheep in Scotland.

OP, based on this and your Olympic thread I really think that you are under some misconceptions and really encourage you to do a lot of research.

Back to your cruise.

I assume that you will be leaving your 2 year old in the on board nursery whilst you are on excursions, but even your 6 year old may not be permitted on organized excursions, or will find them a challenge. You may want to leave him behind as well, or stay on board, or plan a port visit with no excursion (or bring your mother in law to assist or stay on board with the children whilst you go ashore)

Many or most of the port excursions require a lot of walking on cobblestoned streets, or hills, or off road, in 30-35 degree heat and often high humidity. This can be taxing for many adults, let alone children, and a child of that age will definitely find it a challenge. Five weeks of Disneyland Paris, cruise excursions, and the Olympics will tax any adult physcially, and may be virtually impossible for a child that age to maintain that pace.

I believe that you also said that you are not in shape, and you may want to consider that your itinerary will definitely have you physically active as well as most likely carrying one of your children for at least a good part of the time. (Strollers won't be an option a lot of the time)

The reason why 6 year old are not permitted on many excursions or organized multi-day tours (as you have seen) is because they are unable to keep pace. 2 year olds are virtually not permitted on any of them because not only can they be disruptive at that age to others, it is extremely difficult to meet their needs on that sort of tour.