Luckily Disneyland has been spared the catastrophe, the city itself is pretty bad, everyone glows in the dark now. And the power plant fire has been put out by this guy:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-P7FAPOOp9-...Bfukushima.jpg

:D thanks Rankourabu.. That's supposed to be Paris and the monster standing on Disneyland Paris?

We are planning to visit Paris.. and the trip, even though 5 actual weeks in Europe is going to be alot shorter due to the cruise and the Olympics eating up a good couple of weeks.. So looks like just by constraints, we'll have to just do 4 days in Disneyland Paris before hitting the Cruise, come back and spend some time in Paris, and I probably want to get to the games early, so may extend our 5 nighter to 8 nights in London for the Olympics. But its' all preliminary, and I still have access to excellent venues, so may as well get down to the Olympics and enjoy some festivities.

After the Olympics, my wife still wants to see London and its offerings, so a good 5 days I imagine have to be fit in somewhere.. so we're trying to decide if we're going on another cruise for a week, or hit up Scotland..

So definitely France is in the mix after the cruise and before the Olympics.. any ideas what we could fit in for a good week after the Olympics?

You really seem to be jumping all over the place. Ireland, Scotland, Italy, Russia, Scandinavia, France?

Take a moment and look at a map, and then consider how you will get to all these places. Paris before AND after a cruise, and the cruise may be in one of two seas? Cruises leave from ocean ports, and Paris isn't near the ocean. If you do that much jumping around, you need to factor in full days for travel, even if you fly.

And now eight days in that Olympic situation you have planned for your family?

I really, really think that you are overextending yourself and overestimating how much you and your family can do. Even if you are all superhuman geniuses it is physically impossible to do all that you are listing on your various threads. If you do plan all that, I think that there will be a very large meltdown at some point. You simply cannot do it all, and if you try, you will be missing out on a lot of the enjoyment and experiences just to say that you 'did Europe'.

I recommend planning a full week in 3-4 locations, especially with such very young children, and planning a lot of down days with no big highlight events or trips. Eight days at the Olympics with small children will be exhausting for all of you. Even a cruise which is port intensive is exhausting for adults, and for children can be extremely difficult. Now take a cruise, 5 days at Disneyland, another cruise, 8 days at the Olympics, and 'hitting up Scotland', and it is a challenging itinerary even for the most fit adult.

You made me laugh with the super human geniuses comment lol.:D

No, I'm just throwing out some ideas, and we do not plan to visit more than 3 countries on land.. In fact, we are only planning to visit one other place, and that's happening after the Olympics..

So it looks like the following.. Disneyland Paris from the 18th to 23rd, on the 23rd go on the cruise for 7 days, then go back to Paris and visit for 3 or 4 days.. Get to the Olympics early because its a zoo like you said, and stay an extra day after the Olympics because its a zoo after that.. The next 5 or 6 days are up in the air.. back to London for the last 3 or 4 days.. 5 weeks in total..

We can get a nice Suite at Fairmont St. Andrews, so I'm strongly considering going up for some time, and doing some sight seeing up there before returning to London.. But we could conceivable just stay in UK and take in the sights and sounds..

Er, Scotland is part of the UK.

Unless you are going to golf, or have been to Scotland before and seen Edinburgh and Glasgow, I wouldn't recommend St Andrews. Free suite upgrade or not, you are again setting up your family for a very exhausting itinerary, especially if you plan to see some of the amazing things Scotland has to offer. Yes, the countryside is worth seeing, but again can be physically tiring, and you really shouldn't miss Edinburgh and Glasgow for your first trip.

And be aware of festival dates.

I'm a golfer, but on recent trips I chose to spend time with family rather than doing a round or so..

Speaking with my wife recently, I'm not too sure that I would want to go to Scotland unless there is a high speed train that gets us there pronto.. and I haven't got around to researching this possible part of the itinerary. I originally wanted to visit multiple countries on a multi-day land tour, but because this is no longer in the equation, we are having to re-evaluate the remaining time we have in the region.

But we've always wanted to see Scotland.. but is this the trip to do it.. So moreso the focus on the itinerary that has to be part of our trip, and after confirmation filling the other parts of the trip with sensible items that will make our first trip to Europe enjoyable and educational.. especially for my 6 year old..

The easiest way to get to Scotland would either be to fly or to take the sleeper train overnight, fastest train from London to Edinburgh is 4 hours :)

But that is to Edinburgh (or flying into GLA is similar to what Fred listed)

OP wants to go to St Andrews. Hopefully he is not envisioning travelling daily from St Andrews to Glasgow or Edinburgh, or worse driving himself into central Edinburgh (especially in August :eek: unfamiliar with driving on a different side of the road, in an unfamiliar country)

OP, cross St Andrews off your list if you are thinking of using that as a base for sightseeing.

And realise that August in Edinburgh is very busy during festival time, but I suspect will be even more busy with some travel diverted from London to other parts of the UK before/during/after the Olympics. I tend to stay in Glasgow and take the train into Edinburgh in August (unless I absolutely need to be there for more than 12 hours a day) but I don't recommend that for you.

That was more in reference to high speed trains (if you see one let me know ;)) unless you intend on all the family playing golf then i wouldn't go to St Andrews

:D 'High speed' :D I've spent many a day sitting on a train watching sheep in Scotland.

OP, based on this and your Olympic thread I really think that you are under some misconceptions and really encourage you to do a lot of research.

Back to your cruise.

I assume that you will be leaving your 2 year old in the on board nursery whilst you are on excursions, but even your 6 year old may not be permitted on organized excursions, or will find them a challenge. You may want to leave him behind as well, or stay on board, or plan a port visit with no excursion (or bring your mother in law to assist or stay on board with the children whilst you go ashore)

Many or most of the port excursions require a lot of walking on cobblestoned streets, or hills, or off road, in 30-35 degree heat and often high humidity. This can be taxing for many adults, let alone children, and a child of that age will definitely find it a challenge. Five weeks of Disneyland Paris, cruise excursions, and the Olympics will tax any adult physcially, and may be virtually impossible for a child that age to maintain that pace.

I believe that you also said that you are not in shape, and you may want to consider that your itinerary will definitely have you physically active as well as most likely carrying one of your children for at least a good part of the time. (Strollers won't be an option a lot of the time)

The reason why 6 year old are not permitted on many excursions or organized multi-day tours (as you have seen) is because they are unable to keep pace. 2 year olds are virtually not permitted on any of them because not only can they be disruptive at that age to others, it is extremely difficult to meet their needs on that sort of tour.

Im a Newbie so please be patient..:)

I don't have a clue about Europe and starting from a clean slate.. and I don't pretend to know Europe, but you guys seem to think I'm an expert at something I've never visited..

I am however an individual of analysis and deduction.. and I'll research every detail to death do us part if necessary.. That would be just normal course of how thorough I can be in areas identified of concern, and relaxed in other areas until continued thorough research is warranted..

We want to just relax and not travel at great lengths.. so if an overnight on a train is going to be the option that gets us to St. Andrews, then I would rather not do so at first glance.

Thanks for setting me straight in this..

You realize that an overnight train, especially if you have the whole cabin to yourselves will be far more comfortable than a regular 5 hour train, right?

No, I definitely do not think that you are an expert.

However, are you actually doing some research outside of FT? Are you reading other websites, or books? There are a lot of basic travel guides for beginner, novice travellers, which really would help you.

And I suggest that you put all of your thoughts of travel to WDW, Hawaii, and Mexican all inclusive resorts aside, as they don't really have much relevance to what you are planning (Those are all very 'easy' holidays) Driving your child 45 minutes to Kindergarten in Calgary each day is nothing like travelling on the tube/on foot in London for 1,5 hours during the Olympics.

From what I can tell, you now have this trip somewhat narrowed down to 1 week Disneyland Paris, 1 week cruise, 1 week Paris, 1 week Olympics, 1 week Scotland, correct? That is still a very challenging trip for inexperienced travellers if you plan to be on the go every day, so I would plan many days of 'nothing' with down time, or someone will have a meltdown or worse, or become ill on this trip.

Also as I noted elsewhere you need to pare down to a total of two medium sized checked bags, two rollaboards, one size child rollaboard in terms of luggage. Knowing many of the train stations and airports you will be using, this is really the maximum you will be able to manage along with a stroller, small child, and baby.

Train from London to St Andrews would be 6 hours, to fly you'd have to go via Edinburgh or Aberdeen and then take train/coach, if you'd still rather visit St Andrews over Edinburgh/Glasgow then i found this website that you may find useful :) http://www.standrews.co.uk/

Congratulation on your decision to visit Europe, you will have fun. My wife and I do Europe often. We however go to one place and then tour other place in Europe from there. You on the other hand are doing it as 1 huge tour with kids. There are many very good suggestions that I have noticed on this thread already; to have quality time and not quantity. Good suggestions. You said that you have done 2.5 months last year, I assume in North America. Europe is a bit more congested and might be a bit tougher to travel with kids especially when you are considering trains and such. The more stops you have the more unpacking and packing again is required. Even for us its a chore, but I leave it to my wife to do it right....:)


I see that you are stopping at EWR on your way to Europe. Our trip next year is also through EWR. We are considering taking few days (5) to "do" New York. How far is this airport from the Big Apple? Any suggestions as to hotels and locations of these as we hve never been there before. Any pointers would be appreciated. We are currently booked with EWR transit only to MUC. If we decide to stop over for few days I will try to change the booking. If for whatever reason its becomes not possible, my itinerary says that Terminal A is where we land and Terminal 1 is where we depart for MUC. Is that far and doable within 1 hr 25 min. Do we need to pick up our luggage if we clear customs in Calgary.