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-   -   Delayed flight (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/emirates-skywards/1872615-delayed-flight.html)

diamantaire Nov 15, 2017 12:00 pm

Here is the version of the ec261:
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/resource.ht...C_1&format=PDF

-please read article 3 (scope)
-also if you can please find the article which exclude non community carriers

diamantaire Nov 15, 2017 12:03 pm

in addition I shall also send out a mail to the relevant authorities

eternaltransit Nov 15, 2017 12:11 pm


Originally Posted by diamantaire (Post 29064090)
Here is the version of the ec261:
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/resource.html?uri=cellar:439cd3a7-fd3c-4da7-8bf4-b0f60600c1d6.0004.02/DOC_1&format=PDF

-please read article 3 (scope)
-also if you can please find the article which exclude non community carriers


Article 3:

This Regulation shall apply: (a) to passengers departing from an airport located in the territory of a Member State to which the Treaty applies;

(so, that means, anyone who departs from an EU airport, regardless of carrier)


(b) to passengers departing from an airport located in a third country to an airport situated in the territory of a Member State to which the Treaty applies, unless they received benefits or compensation and were given assistance in that third country, if the operating air carrier of the flight concerned is a Community carrier.


(that means, passengers departing from any airport, arriving in an airport of an EU state where the treaty applies, unless there was prior assistance given, but the operating carrier must be a community carrier).

Community carrier is defined in Article 2:

c) ‘Community carrier’ means an air carrier with a valid operating licence granted by a Member State in accordance with the provisions of Council Regulation (EEC) No 2407/92 of 23 July 1992 on licensing of air carriers (1 );
Emirates' operating licence is granted by the United Arab Emirates. The UAE is not a Member State of the European Union, and the licence was obviously not granted in accordance with the Council Regulation stipulated.

Therefore, Emirates is only bound in respect of flights that satisfy condition (a) in Article 3, which is when their flights depart the territory of a Member State where the Treaty applies.

skywardhunter Nov 15, 2017 12:11 pm


Originally Posted by diamantaire (Post 29064090)
Here is the version of the ec261:
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/resource.ht...C_1&format=PDF

-please read article 3 (scope)
-also if you can please find the article which exclude non community carriers


Very first paragraph says community carrier. Look at definition of community carrier on left side of page.

diamantaire Nov 15, 2017 12:26 pm

I have sent a mail to the concerned authorities,

Meanwhile I found this on their website:

http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens...r/index_en.htm

eternaltransit Nov 15, 2017 1:22 pm


Originally Posted by diamantaire (Post 29064222)
I have sent a mail to the concerned authorities,

Meanwhile I found this on their website:

http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens...r/index_en.htm

I think that makes it quite clear that the regulation does not apply to non-EU carriers flying to the EU:


If you take a flight which arrives in the EU from outside the EU and is operated by an non-EU airline

NO, YOU DON'T HAVE ANY RIGHTS

DYKWIA Nov 15, 2017 1:38 pm


Originally Posted by diamantaire (Post 29064222)
I have sent a mail to the concerned authorities,

Why? You're clearly wrong on this, so why bother sending an email? This is probably the clearest section of the whole EU261 regulation :)

diamantaire Nov 15, 2017 2:07 pm

The is is to clarify if the connecting flights ex-eu are covered?

had a claim against one of the me3 when flying out of the eu , they refused the claim in response said ec261 does not apply to them,
sent them a copy of the regulations, they are still in denial.
I dont have the time , instead i stopped flying with them.

diamantaire Nov 15, 2017 2:08 pm


Originally Posted by DYKWIA (Post 29064469)
Why? You're clearly wrong on this, so why bother sending an email? This is probably the clearest section of the whole EU261 regulation :)

not clearly wrong partially wrong , does not apply when flying into the eu,
but does apply when flying out from eu

skywardhunter Nov 15, 2017 2:34 pm


Originally Posted by diamantaire (Post 29064563)
not clearly wrong partially wrong , does not apply when flying into the eu,
but does apply when flying out from eu

yes but they argue only to connection point, whether that is correct or not is still in dispute.

ft101 Nov 15, 2017 2:40 pm


Originally Posted by skywardhunter (Post 29064685)
yes but they argue only to connection point, whether that is correct or not is still in dispute.

Not in the UK.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/ar...ay-lia-442163/

diamantaire Nov 15, 2017 2:41 pm

They argue as they don't wanna pay,
that should be clarified by the response of the ec261 authorities,
already got the acknowledgement of the mail I sent to them.

skywardhunter Nov 15, 2017 2:57 pm


Originally Posted by ft101 (Post 29064706)

Weren't there rumours of EK wanting to appeal to a higher court (possibly EU-level). Also, UK != EU ?? (Brexit)

diamantaire Nov 15, 2017 3:15 pm


Originally Posted by skywardhunter (Post 29064785)
Weren't there rumours of EK wanting to appeal to a higher court (possibly EU-level). Also, UK != EU ?? (Brexit)

I think they lost the appeal as headline mentions, which means the initial judgement was in the favor of the pax.

also here is another detailed link to the same case

http://www.hfw.com/EU261-English-Cou...s-October-2017


and the initial case:
https://gettingthedealthrough.com/ar...2612004-appeal

eternaltransit Nov 15, 2017 3:34 pm


Originally Posted by diamantaire (Post 29064870)
I think they lost the appeal as headline mentions, which means the initial judgement was in the favor of the pax.

also here is another detailed link to the same case

http://www.hfw.com/EU261-English-Cou...s-October-2017


and the initial case:
https://gettingthedealthrough.com/ar...2612004-appeal

The reasoning in that case is that the sanction of EC261 applies in respect of the first flight only (that is, MAN-DXB, to resolve the extra-territorial element), but that the level of compensation is to be determined with respect to time of arrival in the final destination on the journey - the ECJ already ruled that flights are independent in Emirates v Schenkel: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-conte...:EU:C:2008:400

That is to say, EC261 would not apply on the return journey back to the EU at any stage, as none of the flights are in the scope of the regulation, but when the journey has a flight in the scope of the regulation (such as an ex-EU departure), then the final arrival at the end of that journey is what matters, no matter if that ultimate destination is outside the EU.


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