Agree - they are taking the piss.

Hello again to sealink and everyone,

As some comments explains the " trick " of EMIRATES is to take in account the fare code of the ticket (most of time discounted one) such as Axxx fare in First (FLEX in 2015) and while downgrading to take the most expensive fare in BUSINESS : Jxxx fare (FULL FLEX in 2015).

As I wrote and show on the Blog I made this is outrageous and EMIRATES was sentenced by a French court in France :

Downgrading and refund (details) :

http://emirates.over-blog.com/2017/0...nd-refund.html

Aircraft swaps (details) :

http://emirates.over-blog.com/2017/0...t-changes.html

Court decision (English translation) :

http://emirates.over-blog.com/2017/0...n-english.html

Airlines explains (which is true) that a airline ticket with several legs is " one " thing (one contract) and, for example, if one did not check-in for first leg it is a " NO SHOW " and the whole airline ticket is cancelled.

But it appears that in order to pay a very low (unfair) refund EMIRATES tries to " changes the rules " and dares to " mix " the fares.

As a retired (old) man and as I explained and shows on the Blog I created (see above), I got (kept) screenshot of prices (FIRST and BUSINESS) of the day of my own booking to prove that Emirates had a shocking refund offer after (shocking) swaps (aircraft changes) and downgrading on two legs of my own trip.

Of course, everyone does not have screenshots of fares of its own day of booking but there is a site where you everyone can find detailed fares (before taxes) for the days of its journey at the date of the (actual) booking ! Everyone can find all fares for each day of booking for the twelve lasts months. This is very interesting to see the actual prices for example in F, A and J, I fares (and other ones). This is EXPERTFLYER where it is easy to have a free trial of 5 days and / or to subscribe for one month (this is what I made to try to understand ticketing fares) at a fee of some 10 $ :

http://www.expertflyer.com/

https://www.expertflyer.com/

Attached, to show how it can be useful, there is a screenshot I made (on EXPERTFLYER website) in 2016 to have a complete view of fares with : ticketing date 2015/10/02, departure 2016/01/24 and return on 2016/02/19 on CDG > CMB on EMIRATES.

I hope this informations will be helpful to everyone here.

Greetings from France.

Actually, EK often offer upgrades from UK-DXB at not much more being offered.

As I said earlier on. You were offered about 38% of what you paid for that leg, pro-rata. I think that's a pretty fair amount given what one often pays for F over J. At least on my typical routes it's usually 30-40% premium for F over J.

except that the mandatory reimbursement is 75% , not 38%

Given a mandatory reimbursement is 75%, I have trouble seeing how 38% is fair

Good evening,

You are (perfectly) right for downgrading on departure legs from Europe (as CEE 261 / 2004 applies to all carriers for outbound flights from Europe).

The official CEE 261 /2004 rule states :

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-conte...4R0261&from=FR

For my own case it was not ruled by CEE 261 / 2004 as downgrading was on return legs.

To know the actual difference of ticket prices (case of this thread and other ones) the best is to use EXPERTFLYER to check the fares (they are without taxes and airport charges and can be used at 100 % for calculation). Fares can be displayed in $, €, £ or any currency used (country where the ticket was bought).

On the screenshot of EXPERTFLYER website that I uploaded (see above in the thread) for example, it appears that at date of booking for a journey at mentioned dates (CDG > DXB > CMB > DXB > CDG) the FLEX fares were : FIRST (AEEESFR1) : 3 673 € and BUSINESS (IEEESFR1) : 1 710 €. Difference is 1 963 €. But difference between FIRST FLEX of 3 673 € and BUSINESS FLEX PLUS (JERZFFR1) of 2 760 € is only of 913 €. In several affairs (downgrading from FIRST to BUSINESS) Emirates tried to pretend that the difference to be taken in account (whole return journey) should be (as in this example) of 913 € and not of 1 963 € ! This is shocking of course (mix of fares FLEX and FLEX PLUS).

This was the way Emirates wanted to refund me (for the actual case and dates of my trip in 2015). The FIRST FLEX was 3 740 € and BUSINESS FLEX was 1 740 €. Difference was 2 000 €. As I was downgraded on 2 legs on 4 (return ones) I asked a refund of 1 000 € (50 % * 2 000 €). But Emirates Emirates wanted to use the FLEX PLUS fare in BUSINESS (it was of 2 740 €) and pretended that the difference due was (3 740 € - 2 740 €) = 1 000 € and for 50 % of legs = 500 € (only) ....

The French court (2016 December 16) rejected the Emirates " point of view " and sentenced Emirates to make the full refund I asked (1 000 €). I explained and detailed everything I could in the Blog I made (see above in this thread).

So to check Emirates refund proposal it is necessary to have the actual prices of the involved trip in the same fares (FLEX, FLEX PLUS) and for this a tool as EXPERTFLYER is very useful for the passenger (there are other tools of course which are similar on the web).

Greetings from France.

Who says mandatory = fair?

Yeah they do that as a cabin filler, but they offer that when they want, not when you want.
If you take something away from someone, you should compensate him for the going rate, not for what it could be had at some clearance sale.

I have difficulty seeing how offering anything lower than that which is legally required to be paid can ever be fair

so if it were the reciprocal DXB-GLA then 300 would be perfectly fair since there's not more legally required?

The airline might say 75% if unfair to them and their operational need to shuffle aircraft.

The airline is choosing for economic reasons to change aeroplane use and the reimbursement requirements need to be considered

What might be reasonable on a different flight is irrelevent - for travel commencing in EU, the required amount is stipulated by regulation

required != fair

You get a product that costs approx. 30-40% less and you get a refund in that range. Seems fair to me

The idea of the EU legislation is to stop airlines doing this routinely. If somebody walks up at GLA and pays full whack for an F fare, EK should be penalised for then downgrading an F passenger that had only paid a discounted F fare.

Isn't the EU regulation applicable here? You are involuntary downgraded, so they should compensate you with 75% (?) of the original flight price...

Yes and already mentioned. It's 75% of the pro-rated portion (by distance) of the trip, so as was calculated above in the region of 500-600 GBP.