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Very impersonal 2nd rate service in economy
Just got back from Dubai flying the new Airbus 380. Economy has 399 seats. The flight attendants, all well under 30-years-old, treated passengers with the most impersonal service I have ever witnessed. No smiles. No hello's or chatting. It was rather painful to watch and experience. Yes, they were efficient. I give them that. But I never felt like cattle before in my life.
Also, the flight attendant dinners came from Business Class. They ate these wonderful dinners in front of economy passengers who just finished their lousy economy dinners. Some of the worst food I have eaten on a plane. Pizza tasted like cardboard. Water and juice glasses were always served less than half-filled. Soft drinks served in 6 ounce cans. I watched the flight attendants drink their liquids from personal mugs, not tiny cups like passengers got. |
So, the staff didn't chat to you, and they ate the food that they entitled to?
You can always ask for more drinks, or visit the galley area. |
I have some stuff to do before I can give a more sympathetic, serious reply but quickly: pizza in Y?! I'm definitely flying the wrong routes because I think I would kill for some cheese on toast mid-flight rather than the "light snack" hideous sandwiches!
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Originally Posted by Oceanbound222
(Post 25003446)
Also, the flight attendant dinners came from Business Class. They ate these wonderful dinners in front of economy passengers who just finished their lousy economy dinners. |
The cabin crew are working. It is common for FAs to eat business class food. As a SYD based pax you would know that QF and VA crews eat business class food on domestic sectors.
The age of cabin crew is also irrelevant. The ME3 attract younger recruits, and in the USA old FAs are in a decent paying job and cannot be retired. Is your issue with the food, the service or the mugs? I can't actual tell... |
Originally Posted by Fleck
(Post 25003499)
Nice to hear that. Good for the FAs.
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Originally Posted by Oceanbound222
(Post 25003446)
Just got back from Dubai flying the new Airbus 380. Economy has 399 seats. The flight attendants, all well under 30-years-old, treated passengers with the most impersonal service I have ever witnessed. No smiles. No hello's or chatting. It was rather painful to watch and experience. Yes, they were efficient. I give them that. But I never felt like cattle before in my life.
Also, the flight attendant dinners came from Business Class. They ate these wonderful dinners in front of economy passengers who just finished their lousy economy dinners. Some of the worst food I have eaten on a plane. Pizza tasted like cardboard. Water and juice glasses were always served less than half-filled. Soft drinks served in 6 ounce cans. I watched the flight attendants drink their liquids from personal mugs, not tiny cups like passengers got. I think we see a bit more than average on the EK forum of the clash of travelling culture - passengers from many countries have been trained not to press call bells, not to demand what they want and rely only on what's offered or to be asked (a rather more passive model of service) - and judge their perceptions of service on the offerings: do you get hot towels, how frequent are drinks runs, whether staff chat to you. However, EK, along with the other ME carriers train their staff from a different perspective: they expect their customers to be demanding, to press call buttons and to call over staff when they want something, and to not disturb people if they can help it. You see this tradition of hospitality especially if you visit EKs major source markets - they are more geared to be summoned like (household/service) staff, and that's perfectly fine. So, you get a situation where crew are puzzled that people who want things like more drinks, more cups, snacks, change of food because it's not nice, but don't make their concerns known to the crew - whereas those passengers sit there and stew because the crew can't seem to read their minds or facial expression (they wait to be asked "how is everything" - but the question is never forthcoming). You can see how this creates a bit of a conundrum. You can see this in all classes of service - F, J and Y on EK (after all, the F model is to close the doors and use the seat phone or call bell to summon service if you want anything, otherwise to be left alone!). Couple this with the fact most Y crew are of the ages of 21-25, their first real job after university, and it is not seen to be a proper hospitality career by most of them, and you can see how mind-reading and service anticipation is not perhaps their forté. It sounds like you place the highest priority on being offered everything in one go and to have crew engage with you and to make conversation - and it's coming into a clash with a service culture where passengers usually demand things instantly, to be as quick as possible and to not bother them. If passengers want to be entertained, they have arguably the best inflight entertainment system in the world and failing that wi-fi. Inseat power and USB to charge your devices. The crew (in Y) are there to serve, run drinks every so often, but more to get out of your way. After all there are 398-426 other people to serve in a short amount of time. In my experience with Y crew, they are all actually quite willing to engage in conversation and friendly banter if you go and say hello to them in the galleys (between services). They are unfailingly helpful if you go and ask them for drinks or snacks in their galleys - unlike many other carriers whose staff will give you death stares and ignore you if you enter "their space". The problem on the A380s is that there are no seats in the galleys and the curtaining system still leaves the passenger cabin rather open (by design). Thus, you will always see crew, during their lunch break, eating on the jump seats which are in plain view. On the 777 for instance, you can eat in the galley out of sight. This is impossible on the A380 (except for 2 seats at the rear of the A380 away from any galleys). Similarly, it makes it more difficult for you to strike up conversation as you could in the rear of a 777, but then again, if one is dying for conversation with crew, I think one would make the effort and not care! Still, it is difficult to know all this before you book your flight, which I sympathise with. It sounds like that your happiness and satisfaction with hospitality is much more entwined with how you interact with the service staff, rather than things like the hard product and service schedules, so I truly wish you luck on finding another carrier that can deliver that (without being extortionate!). As to the issues about can size, food quality and drinks runs (which have solutions on board) - I think those issues are minor compared to the cultural clash you would still experience. |
Originally Posted by eternaltransit
(Post 25003595)
So, OP, sorry to hear that you weren't really happy with your flight. Now, I am quite familiar with the hospitality industry and I hate to see customers blamed when they get disappointed because after all you have spent a lot of money and weren't satisfied. However, I think you have to draw a distinction between whether the provider (in this case EK) fell short on delivering what they are supposed to by their own standards, i.e. a service failure, or whether your priorities and expectations are simply mismatched with what they are offering.
I think we see a bit more than average on the EK forum of the clash of travelling culture - passengers from many countries have been trained not to press call bells, not to demand what they want and rely only on what's offered or to be asked (a rather more passive model of service) - and judge their perceptions of service on the offerings: do you get hot towels, how frequent are drinks runs, whether staff chat to you. However, EK, along with the other ME carriers train their staff from a different perspective: they expect their customers to be demanding, to press call buttons and to call over staff when they want something, and to not disturb people if they can help it. You see this tradition of hospitality especially if you visit EKs major source markets - they are more geared to be summoned like (household/service) staff, and that's perfectly fine. So, you get a situation where crew are puzzled that people who want things like more drinks, more cups, snacks, change of food because it's not nice, but don't make their concerns known to the crew - whereas those passengers sit there and stew because the crew can't seem to read their minds or facial expression (they wait to be asked "how is everything" - but the question is never forthcoming). You can see how this creates a bit of a conundrum. You can see this in all classes of service - F, J and Y on EK (after all, the F model is to close the doors and use the seat phone or call bell to summon service if you want anything, otherwise to be left alone!). Couple this with the fact most Y crew are of the ages of 21-25, their first real job after university, and it is not seen to be a proper hospitality career by most of them, and you can see how mind-reading and service anticipation is not perhaps their forté. It sounds like you place the highest priority on being offered everything in one go and to have crew engage with you and to make conversation - and it's coming into a clash with a service culture where passengers usually demand things instantly, to be as quick as possible and to not bother them. If passengers want to be entertained, they have arguably the best inflight entertainment system in the world and failing that wi-fi. Inseat power and USB to charge your devices. The crew (in Y) are there to serve, run drinks every so often, but more to get out of your way. After all there are 398-426 other people to serve in a short amount of time. In my experience with Y crew, they are all actually quite willing to engage in conversation and friendly banter if you go and say hello to them in the galleys (between services). They are unfailingly helpful if you go and ask them for drinks or snacks in their galleys - unlike many other carriers whose staff will give you death stares and ignore you if you enter "their space". The problem on the A380s is that there are no seats in the galleys and the curtaining system still leaves the passenger cabin rather open (by design). Thus, you will always see crew, during their lunch break, eating on the jump seats which are in plain view. On the 777 for instance, you can eat in the galley out of sight. This is impossible on the A380 (except for 2 seats at the rear of the A380 away from any galleys). Similarly, it makes it more difficult for you to strike up conversation as you could in the rear of a 777, but then again, if one is dying for conversation with crew, I think one would make the effort and not care! Still, it is difficult to know all this before you book your flight, which I sympathise with. It sounds like that your happiness and satisfaction with hospitality is much more entwined with how you interact with the service staff, rather than things like the hard product and service schedules, so I truly wish you luck on finding another carrier that can deliver that (without being extortionate!). As to the issues about can size, food quality and drinks runs (which have solutions on board) - I think those issues are minor compared to the cultural clash you would still experience. |
Originally Posted by m3red
(Post 25003808)
I'm not reading all that but I'm sure it's good advice :D
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What route were you flying? 399 indicates possible ULH, but just being served pizza on a long route? Or was there something else? While experiences will vary and people have different expectations, I'd say the service in Y has been good compared to other carriers anyways. I've seen the occasional "having a bad day" FA, but that's mostly been on late turnarounds. ULH, not so much. I've seen FA's eat their food in the galley's, but what they eat and how they eat it...it does not bother me. Seems to be some info missing in your review. FA's are also not there to just chat, they will greet you, help out when you have questions, but you shouldn't be expecting casual chatting during a flight. They do have a job to do after all.
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Originally Posted by stylo4444
(Post 25004302)
What route were you flying? 399 indicates possible ULH, but just being served pizza on a long route? Or was there something else? While experiences will vary and people have different expectations, I'd say the service in Y has been good compared to other carriers anyways. I've seen the occasional "having a bad day" FA, but that's mostly been on late turnarounds. ULH, not so much. I've seen FA's eat their food in the galley's, but what they eat and how they eat it...it does not bother me. Seems to be some info missing in your review. FA's are also not there to just chat, they will greet you, help out when you have questions, but you shouldn't be expecting casual chatting during a flight. They do have a job to do after all.
http://cdn.ek.aero/downloads/ek/pdfs...d270f4ab3e9e00 |
I was not the flight, so I can't be definite, but no "hello" or smile is indeed disappointing.
As for chatting, I cannot blame FA not to chat. Just imagine if they begun chatting with the 400 pax ... you would have no service at all ! Therefore, it's up to you to make the first step. They cannot guess who wants to be left alone, and who wants to socialize ... As for drinks or more of something, in my old recollection of Y, I've never seen a FA grumpy just because you asked. Go fly FlyingBlue and you'll see what a low motivated strongly unionized FA look like : you bow sorry for disturbing their personal chat only to ask for a glass of water ... that's for C. In Y, there are self-serve bars, with no FA to be seen ... So much for socializing. |
Originally Posted by eternaltransit
(Post 25003595)
So, OP, sorry to hear that you weren't really happy with your flight. Now, I am quite familiar with the hospitality industry and I hate to see customers blamed when they get disappointed because after all you have spent a lot of money and weren't satisfied. However, I think you have to draw a distinction between whether the provider (in this case EK) fell short on delivering what they are supposed to by their own standards, i.e. a service failure, or whether your priorities and expectations are simply mismatched with what they are offering.
I think we see a bit more than average on the EK forum of the clash of travelling culture - passengers from many countries have been trained not to press call bells, not to demand what they want and rely only on what's offered or to be asked (a rather more passive model of service) - and judge their perceptions of service on the offerings: do you get hot towels, how frequent are drinks runs, whether staff chat to you. However, EK, along with the other ME carriers train their staff from a different perspective: they expect their customers to be demanding, to press call buttons and to call over staff when they want something, and to not disturb people if they can help it. You see this tradition of hospitality especially if you visit EKs major source markets - they are more geared to be summoned like (household/service) staff, and that's perfectly fine. So, you get a situation where crew are puzzled that people who want things like more drinks, more cups, snacks, change of food because it's not nice, but don't make their concerns known to the crew - whereas those passengers sit there and stew because the crew can't seem to read their minds or facial expression (they wait to be asked "how is everything" - but the question is never forthcoming). You can see how this creates a bit of a conundrum. You can see this in all classes of service - F, J and Y on EK (after all, the F model is to close the doors and use the seat phone or call bell to summon service if you want anything, otherwise to be left alone!). Couple this with the fact most Y crew are of the ages of 21-25, their first real job after university, and it is not seen to be a proper hospitality career by most of them, and you can see how mind-reading and service anticipation is not perhaps their forté. It sounds like you place the highest priority on being offered everything in one go and to have crew engage with you and to make conversation - and it's coming into a clash with a service culture where passengers usually demand things instantly, to be as quick as possible and to not bother them. If passengers want to be entertained, they have arguably the best inflight entertainment system in the world and failing that wi-fi. Inseat power and USB to charge your devices. The crew (in Y) are there to serve, run drinks every so often, but more to get out of your way. After all there are 398-426 other people to serve in a short amount of time. In my experience with Y crew, they are all actually quite willing to engage in conversation and friendly banter if you go and say hello to them in the galleys (between services). They are unfailingly helpful if you go and ask them for drinks or snacks in their galleys - unlike many other carriers whose staff will give you death stares and ignore you if you enter "their space". The problem on the A380s is that there are no seats in the galleys and the curtaining system still leaves the passenger cabin rather open (by design). Thus, you will always see crew, during their lunch break, eating on the jump seats which are in plain view. On the 777 for instance, you can eat in the galley out of sight. This is impossible on the A380 (except for 2 seats at the rear of the A380 away from any galleys). Similarly, it makes it more difficult for you to strike up conversation as you could in the rear of a 777, but then again, if one is dying for conversation with crew, I think one would make the effort and not care! Still, it is difficult to know all this before you book your flight, which I sympathise with. It sounds like that your happiness and satisfaction with hospitality is much more entwined with how you interact with the service staff, rather than things like the hard product and service schedules, so I truly wish you luck on finding another carrier that can deliver that (without being extortionate!). As to the issues about can size, food quality and drinks runs (which have solutions on board) - I think those issues are minor compared to the cultural clash you would still experience. 1 You travel on a plane to get from A to B 2 You stay in a Hotel for the room/bed 3 You eat in a restaurant for food Dont confuse/mix 1 2 3 |
Originally Posted by eternaltransit
(Post 25003495)
I have some stuff to do before I can give a more sympathetic, serious reply but quickly: pizza in Y?! I'm definitely flying the wrong routes because I think I would kill for some cheese on toast mid-flight rather than the "light snack" hideous sandwiches!
They're too bad and definitely fill a hole. On a separate note - I do feel that the Economy service has been slipping over the past few months, just little things. Yesterday when I boarded at DXB, there was no one at the door, just walked straight on (this also happened a couple of weeks ago on a different flight) - As for the "welcolme back Mr Gold/Plat if there's anything...", that now never happens (well to me). |
Originally Posted by Oceanbound222
(Post 25003446)
Just got back from Dubai flying the new Airbus 380. Economy has 399 seats. The flight attendants, all well under 30-years-old, treated passengers with the most impersonal service I have ever witnessed. No smiles. No hello's or chatting. It was rather painful to watch and experience. Yes, they were efficient. I give them that. But I never felt like cattle before in my life.
Also, the flight attendant dinners came from Business Class. They ate these wonderful dinners in front of economy passengers who just finished their lousy economy dinners. Some of the worst food I have eaten on a plane. Pizza tasted like cardboard. Water and juice glasses were always served less than half-filled. Soft drinks served in 6 ounce cans. I watched the flight attendants drink their liquids from personal mugs, not tiny cups like passengers got. |
Originally Posted by Oceanbound222
(Post 25003446)
Just got back from Dubai flying the new Airbus 380. Economy has 399 seats. The flight attendants, all well under 30-years-old, treated passengers with the most impersonal service I have ever witnessed. No smiles. No hello's or chatting. It was rather painful to watch and experience. Yes, they were efficient. I give them that. But I never felt like cattle before in my life.
Also, the flight attendant dinners came from Business Class. They ate these wonderful dinners in front of economy passengers who just finished their lousy economy dinners. Some of the worst food I have eaten on a plane. Pizza tasted like cardboard. Water and juice glasses were always served less than half-filled. Soft drinks served in 6 ounce cans. I watched the flight attendants drink their liquids from personal mugs, not tiny cups like passengers got. You're yet to feel like cattle, take a RyanAir flight and then get back to me. Emirates attendants in Y aren't there to wait on you hand and foot, they're there to serve you and help if you require it otherwise shush! |
Originally Posted by YohYohY
(Post 25006607)
The US of A flights (from and to Dubai) offer pizzas as a snack inbetween the 1st and 2nd meal. I had one (actually 2 as I asked for a second) last week on my way back from Houston - they were also availble on my fligth Sydney yesterday.
They're too bad and definitely fill a hole. On a separate note - I do feel that the Economy service has been slipping over the past few months, just little things. Yesterday when I boarded at DXB, there was no one at the door, just walked straight on (this also happened a couple of weeks ago on a different flight) - As for the "welcolme back Mr Gold/Plat if there's anything...", that now never happens (well to me). |
Originally Posted by StoobyDoo
(Post 25007746)
You're in Y and complaining that you're not getting the attention of someone in F?
You're yet to feel like cattle, take a RyanAir flight and then get back to me. Emirates attendants in Y aren't there to wait on you hand and foot, they're there to serve you and help if you require it otherwise shush! |
Originally Posted by OMGImInPattaya
(Post 25007981)
So true...some people pay a few hundred dollars for a flight and think they chartered a private jet or something. ��
Deny it or justify it at all costs is not really helpful. |
Originally Posted by OMGImInPattaya
(Post 25007981)
So true...some people pay a few hundred dollars for a flight and think they chartered a private jet or something. ��
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Originally Posted by Budley
(Post 25024496)
I think that's rather condescending. You pay for an economy class ticket and expect an acceptable, consistent level of service. You don't get that with EK and it's why I no longer fly them.
My own experience of Emirates is based on the 'premium cabins' but even there the service levels can be variable. Having flown many different carriers, I have yet to find one which can offer a consistently high standard on every flight, so in that respect EK is little different from others. But that in itself is not an excuse. |
Originally Posted by eternaltransit
(Post 25007833)
Think you're just being unlucky with the SFSs - running at 100% here in the past three months! Last flight (80% load in Y) I managed to get upon asking for a small bottle of water, a duty free bag with a large bottle, some cups and earplugs/eyeshades :D
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I would be grateful if they would implement reverse services for flights with more then one meal. Meaning if the serve from the front for the first meal, they could serve the next one from the back. It gets pretty disappointing when you are told twice that the meal you want is not available.
With regards to quality of food. After my last flight from GIG x DXB (shudder), I started to bring my own cup noodles just in case. Other flights were pretty normal meals (meaning room for improvement) for EK. |
Originally Posted by Oceanbound222
(Post 25003446)
Just got back from Dubai flying the new Airbus 380. Economy has 399 seats. The flight attendants, all well under 30-years-old, treated passengers with the most impersonal service I have ever witnessed. No smiles. No hello's or chatting. It was rather painful to watch and experience. Yes, they were efficient. I give them that. But I never felt like cattle before in my life.
Also, the flight attendant dinners came from Business Class. They ate these wonderful dinners in front of economy passengers who just finished their lousy economy dinners. Some of the worst food I have eaten on a plane. Pizza tasted like cardboard. Water and juice glasses were always served less than half-filled. Soft drinks served in 6 ounce cans. I watched the flight attendants drink their liquids from personal mugs, not tiny cups like passengers got. Annnnnnnnnndddddddd? On what planet do you expect personal service on a (super)jumbo jet? And why wouldn't the crew get |
They barely have adequate service in first.
But speaking of excellent service, some Asian countries have a culture of service, and their airlines follow. I flew on Japan Air before in economy. As soon as I woke up the flight attendant asked if I wanted my meal-he kept it for me. That is unheard of in economy. I think the Japanese people take pride in doing a good job, regardless of what they are doing (go to their McDonald's. You will find happy cheery servers). |
Originally Posted by s0ssos
(Post 25047522)
They barely have adequate service in first.
But speaking of excellent service, some Asian countries have a culture of service, and their airlines follow. I flew on Japan Air before in economy. As soon as I woke up the flight attendant asked if I wanted my meal-he kept it for me. That is unheard of in economy. I think the Japanese people take pride in doing a good job, regardless of what they are doing (go to their McDonald's. You will find happy cheery servers). I've had really solid F flights this year, pretty consistent - wish the on ground ie boarding was better ie escort if busy etc |
Originally Posted by m3red
(Post 25047547)
Come on...compared to Y....or J on the A380.
I've had really solid F flights this year, pretty consistent - wish the on ground ie boarding was better ie escort if busy etc |
Originally Posted by s0ssos
(Post 25047608)
Oh, ground service is even worse. At check-in they couldn't care less. Reminds you of checking in at some airport in America without elite status.
That said, the check-in staff are simply there to process bags and if there is zero queue, then that's the experience I am looking for. Out of interest, what service standards are you looking for in F (ground and air)? Are we talking, "I just want to get through the airport as quickly as possible" or do you want private terminal/escort to the door kind of thing? |
Originally Posted by eternaltransit
(Post 25047720)
Ground service for F? What's that :D
That said, the check-in staff are simply there to process bags and if there is zero queue, then that's the experience I am looking for. Out of interest, what service standards are you looking for in F (ground and air)? Are we talking, "I just want to get through the airport as quickly as possible" or do you want private terminal/escort to the door kind of thing? |
Originally Posted by s0ssos
(Post 25047608)
Oh, ground service is even worse. At check-in they couldn't care less. Reminds you of checking in at some airport in America without elite status.
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Oh, you know, they say some words to you, actually talk to you like you are a human being.
Why not replace them with robots? It'd be better at Dubai. |
Originally Posted by s0ssos
(Post 25051232)
Oh, you know, they say some words to you, actually talk to you like you are a human being.
Why not replace them with robots? It'd be better at Dubai. |
Good one
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Originally Posted by s0ssos
(Post 25051232)
Oh, you know, they say some words to you, actually talk to you like you are a human being.
Why not replace them with robots? It'd be better at Dubai. It seems that passengers of the future do not really want any human interaction at all, and simply want to get to the lounge, to the plane and to their destination as quickly as possible. Perhaps at DXB, once Y and J pax are more used to automation, there will be scope to offer the kind of "exclusivity bubble" and "luxury" of close pampering, similar to say, LH FCT at FRA. However, I think at DXB you will still not the experience you are looking for because it seems from your posts that you value the interaction and human connection aspect of luxury hospitality and I am not sure that Dubai (or indeed the UAE) is really geared up to do that. The place runs on imported hospitality and there are very clear class distinctions between the service class and, basically, F pax. The overall culture - that is, the safest behaviour in order not to cause any issues - is that service staff and wealthy F pax are not of the same class, so it would may be insulting (to the F pax) to interact with them as if they were equals with conversation and banter (as you say, talk to you as a human being). The default mode is to simply process things as quickly as possible (and swiftness with service is a big priority from ME customers and indeed EKs target markets - they are not there to chat to the staff). Even if you were to change to a different carrier ex-T1 (or T2!) I still don't think you'd get the service atmosphere you're looking for. Unfortunately, a bit of an intractable problem if you are O&D in DXB and check-in experience is of importance to you! |
Originally Posted by s0ssos
(Post 25051232)
Oh, you know, they say some words to you, actually talk to you like you are a human being.
Why not replace them with robots? It'd be better at Dubai. |
Originally Posted by DYKWIA
(Post 25054148)
I don't want somebody rabbiting on to the check-in agent while I'm waiting behind. Get a move on!! :)
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Originally Posted by DYKWIA
(Post 25054148)
I don't want somebody rabbiting on to the check-in agent while I'm waiting behind. Get a move on!! :)
Actually, my experience at Dubai is they just ignore you. I was checking-in in F, early in the morning, nobody else was there. The two ladies are just sitting there, chatting. Not paying attention to the one person standing in front of them. I wouldn't call that "efficient" either. |
Originally Posted by s0ssos
(Post 25054950)
Haha. So you wouldn't have been one of those in the priority line when the economy queue is empty, right?
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