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Very impersonal 2nd rate service in economy

Very impersonal 2nd rate service in economy

Old Jun 21, 2015, 3:45 am
  #1  
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Very impersonal 2nd rate service in economy

Just got back from Dubai flying the new Airbus 380. Economy has 399 seats. The flight attendants, all well under 30-years-old, treated passengers with the most impersonal service I have ever witnessed. No smiles. No hello's or chatting. It was rather painful to watch and experience. Yes, they were efficient. I give them that. But I never felt like cattle before in my life.

Also, the flight attendant dinners came from Business Class. They ate these wonderful dinners in front of economy passengers who just finished their lousy economy dinners. Some of the worst food I have eaten on a plane. Pizza tasted like cardboard. Water and juice glasses were always served less than half-filled. Soft drinks served in 6 ounce cans. I watched the flight attendants drink their liquids from personal mugs, not tiny cups like passengers got.
Oceanbound222 is offline  
Old Jun 21, 2015, 4:12 am
  #2  
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So, the staff didn't chat to you, and they ate the food that they entitled to?

You can always ask for more drinks, or visit the galley area.
DYKWIA is offline  
Old Jun 21, 2015, 4:17 am
  #3  
 
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I have some stuff to do before I can give a more sympathetic, serious reply but quickly: pizza in Y?! I'm definitely flying the wrong routes because I think I would kill for some cheese on toast mid-flight rather than the "light snack" hideous sandwiches!
eternaltransit is offline  
Old Jun 21, 2015, 4:19 am
  #4  
 
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Originally Posted by Oceanbound222

Also, the flight attendant dinners came from Business Class. They ate these wonderful dinners in front of economy passengers who just finished their lousy economy dinners.
Nice to hear that. Good for the FAs.
Fleck is offline  
Old Jun 21, 2015, 4:25 am
  #5  
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The cabin crew are working. It is common for FAs to eat business class food. As a SYD based pax you would know that QF and VA crews eat business class food on domestic sectors.

The age of cabin crew is also irrelevant. The ME3 attract younger recruits, and in the USA old FAs are in a decent paying job and cannot be retired.

Is your issue with the food, the service or the mugs? I can't actual tell...
m0hamed is offline  
Old Jun 21, 2015, 4:54 am
  #6  
 
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Originally Posted by Fleck
Nice to hear that. Good for the FAs.
Actually, it's not technically J meals - on EK they preorder meals from a longer list and it's generally similar to a J main meal in quality/amount. Given that many crew bring their own food on board, that may give you some idea as to how bored one can get eating them and their quality
eternaltransit is offline  
Old Jun 21, 2015, 5:16 am
  #7  
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
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Originally Posted by Oceanbound222
Just got back from Dubai flying the new Airbus 380. Economy has 399 seats. The flight attendants, all well under 30-years-old, treated passengers with the most impersonal service I have ever witnessed. No smiles. No hello's or chatting. It was rather painful to watch and experience. Yes, they were efficient. I give them that. But I never felt like cattle before in my life.

Also, the flight attendant dinners came from Business Class. They ate these wonderful dinners in front of economy passengers who just finished their lousy economy dinners. Some of the worst food I have eaten on a plane. Pizza tasted like cardboard. Water and juice glasses were always served less than half-filled. Soft drinks served in 6 ounce cans. I watched the flight attendants drink their liquids from personal mugs, not tiny cups like passengers got.
So, OP, sorry to hear that you weren't really happy with your flight. Now, I am quite familiar with the hospitality industry and I hate to see customers blamed when they get disappointed because after all you have spent a lot of money and weren't satisfied. However, I think you have to draw a distinction between whether the provider (in this case EK) fell short on delivering what they are supposed to by their own standards, i.e. a service failure, or whether your priorities and expectations are simply mismatched with what they are offering.

I think we see a bit more than average on the EK forum of the clash of travelling culture - passengers from many countries have been trained not to press call bells, not to demand what they want and rely only on what's offered or to be asked (a rather more passive model of service) - and judge their perceptions of service on the offerings: do you get hot towels, how frequent are drinks runs, whether staff chat to you. However, EK, along with the other ME carriers train their staff from a different perspective: they expect their customers to be demanding, to press call buttons and to call over staff when they want something, and to not disturb people if they can help it. You see this tradition of hospitality especially if you visit EKs major source markets - they are more geared to be summoned like (household/service) staff, and that's perfectly fine.

So, you get a situation where crew are puzzled that people who want things like more drinks, more cups, snacks, change of food because it's not nice, but don't make their concerns known to the crew - whereas those passengers sit there and stew because the crew can't seem to read their minds or facial expression (they wait to be asked "how is everything" - but the question is never forthcoming). You can see how this creates a bit of a conundrum.

You can see this in all classes of service - F, J and Y on EK (after all, the F model is to close the doors and use the seat phone or call bell to summon service if you want anything, otherwise to be left alone!). Couple this with the fact most Y crew are of the ages of 21-25, their first real job after university, and it is not seen to be a proper hospitality career by most of them, and you can see how mind-reading and service anticipation is not perhaps their fort.

It sounds like you place the highest priority on being offered everything in one go and to have crew engage with you and to make conversation - and it's coming into a clash with a service culture where passengers usually demand things instantly, to be as quick as possible and to not bother them. If passengers want to be entertained, they have arguably the best inflight entertainment system in the world and failing that wi-fi. Inseat power and USB to charge your devices. The crew (in Y) are there to serve, run drinks every so often, but more to get out of your way. After all there are 398-426 other people to serve in a short amount of time.

In my experience with Y crew, they are all actually quite willing to engage in conversation and friendly banter if you go and say hello to them in the galleys (between services). They are unfailingly helpful if you go and ask them for drinks or snacks in their galleys - unlike many other carriers whose staff will give you death stares and ignore you if you enter "their space". The problem on the A380s is that there are no seats in the galleys and the curtaining system still leaves the passenger cabin rather open (by design). Thus, you will always see crew, during their lunch break, eating on the jump seats which are in plain view. On the 777 for instance, you can eat in the galley out of sight. This is impossible on the A380 (except for 2 seats at the rear of the A380 away from any galleys). Similarly, it makes it more difficult for you to strike up conversation as you could in the rear of a 777, but then again, if one is dying for conversation with crew, I think one would make the effort and not care!

Still, it is difficult to know all this before you book your flight, which I sympathise with. It sounds like that your happiness and satisfaction with hospitality is much more entwined with how you interact with the service staff, rather than things like the hard product and service schedules, so I truly wish you luck on finding another carrier that can deliver that (without being extortionate!).

As to the issues about can size, food quality and drinks runs (which have solutions on board) - I think those issues are minor compared to the cultural clash you would still experience.
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Old Jun 21, 2015, 6:59 am
  #8  
 
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Originally Posted by eternaltransit
So, OP, sorry to hear that you weren't really happy with your flight. Now, I am quite familiar with the hospitality industry and I hate to see customers blamed when they get disappointed because after all you have spent a lot of money and weren't satisfied. However, I think you have to draw a distinction between whether the provider (in this case EK) fell short on delivering what they are supposed to by their own standards, i.e. a service failure, or whether your priorities and expectations are simply mismatched with what they are offering.

I think we see a bit more than average on the EK forum of the clash of travelling culture - passengers from many countries have been trained not to press call bells, not to demand what they want and rely only on what's offered or to be asked (a rather more passive model of service) - and judge their perceptions of service on the offerings: do you get hot towels, how frequent are drinks runs, whether staff chat to you. However, EK, along with the other ME carriers train their staff from a different perspective: they expect their customers to be demanding, to press call buttons and to call over staff when they want something, and to not disturb people if they can help it. You see this tradition of hospitality especially if you visit EKs major source markets - they are more geared to be summoned like (household/service) staff, and that's perfectly fine.

So, you get a situation where crew are puzzled that people who want things like more drinks, more cups, snacks, change of food because it's not nice, but don't make their concerns known to the crew - whereas those passengers sit there and stew because the crew can't seem to read their minds or facial expression (they wait to be asked "how is everything" - but the question is never forthcoming). You can see how this creates a bit of a conundrum.

You can see this in all classes of service - F, J and Y on EK (after all, the F model is to close the doors and use the seat phone or call bell to summon service if you want anything, otherwise to be left alone!). Couple this with the fact most Y crew are of the ages of 21-25, their first real job after university, and it is not seen to be a proper hospitality career by most of them, and you can see how mind-reading and service anticipation is not perhaps their fort.

It sounds like you place the highest priority on being offered everything in one go and to have crew engage with you and to make conversation - and it's coming into a clash with a service culture where passengers usually demand things instantly, to be as quick as possible and to not bother them. If passengers want to be entertained, they have arguably the best inflight entertainment system in the world and failing that wi-fi. Inseat power and USB to charge your devices. The crew (in Y) are there to serve, run drinks every so often, but more to get out of your way. After all there are 398-426 other people to serve in a short amount of time.

In my experience with Y crew, they are all actually quite willing to engage in conversation and friendly banter if you go and say hello to them in the galleys (between services). They are unfailingly helpful if you go and ask them for drinks or snacks in their galleys - unlike many other carriers whose staff will give you death stares and ignore you if you enter "their space". The problem on the A380s is that there are no seats in the galleys and the curtaining system still leaves the passenger cabin rather open (by design). Thus, you will always see crew, during their lunch break, eating on the jump seats which are in plain view. On the 777 for instance, you can eat in the galley out of sight. This is impossible on the A380 (except for 2 seats at the rear of the A380 away from any galleys). Similarly, it makes it more difficult for you to strike up conversation as you could in the rear of a 777, but then again, if one is dying for conversation with crew, I think one would make the effort and not care!

Still, it is difficult to know all this before you book your flight, which I sympathise with. It sounds like that your happiness and satisfaction with hospitality is much more entwined with how you interact with the service staff, rather than things like the hard product and service schedules, so I truly wish you luck on finding another carrier that can deliver that (without being extortionate!).

As to the issues about can size, food quality and drinks runs (which have solutions on board) - I think those issues are minor compared to the cultural clash you would still experience.
I'm not reading all that but I'm sure it's good advice
m3red is offline  
Old Jun 21, 2015, 7:24 am
  #9  
 
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Originally Posted by m3red
I'm not reading all that but I'm sure it's good advice
tl;dr: if you're trained by other carriers to sit down, NEVER touch the call bell, take what you're offered and don't dare step foot in the galley, and in return get some banter from the crew, you're in for a shock with EK (where the norm is to press the call bell, get up and bother the crew in the galley where they don't actually mind you being in there!)
eternaltransit is offline  
Old Jun 21, 2015, 9:20 am
  #10  
 
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What route were you flying? 399 indicates possible ULH, but just being served pizza on a long route? Or was there something else? While experiences will vary and people have different expectations, I'd say the service in Y has been good compared to other carriers anyways. I've seen the occasional "having a bad day" FA, but that's mostly been on late turnarounds. ULH, not so much. I've seen FA's eat their food in the galley's, but what they eat and how they eat it...it does not bother me. Seems to be some info missing in your review. FA's are also not there to just chat, they will greet you, help out when you have questions, but you shouldn't be expecting casual chatting during a flight. They do have a job to do after all.
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Old Jun 21, 2015, 9:27 am
  #11  
 
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Originally Posted by stylo4444
What route were you flying? 399 indicates possible ULH, but just being served pizza on a long route? Or was there something else? While experiences will vary and people have different expectations, I'd say the service in Y has been good compared to other carriers anyways. I've seen the occasional "having a bad day" FA, but that's mostly been on late turnarounds. ULH, not so much. I've seen FA's eat their food in the galley's, but what they eat and how they eat it...it does not bother me. Seems to be some info missing in your review. FA's are also not there to just chat, they will greet you, help out when you have questions, but you shouldn't be expecting casual chatting during a flight. They do have a job to do after all.
I assume one of the DXB-SYD flights where there is a "Vegetarian Pizza" as a snack service, not the main meal

http://cdn.ek.aero/downloads/ek/pdfs...d270f4ab3e9e00
eternaltransit is offline  
Old Jun 21, 2015, 1:15 pm
  #12  
 
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I was not the flight, so I can't be definite, but no "hello" or smile is indeed disappointing.

As for chatting, I cannot blame FA not to chat. Just imagine if they begun chatting with the 400 pax ... you would have no service at all ! Therefore, it's up to you to make the first step. They cannot guess who wants to be left alone, and who wants to socialize ...

As for drinks or more of something, in my old recollection of Y, I've never seen a FA grumpy just because you asked. Go fly FlyingBlue and you'll see what a low motivated strongly unionized FA look like : you bow sorry for disturbing their personal chat only to ask for a glass of water ... that's for C. In Y, there are self-serve bars, with no FA to be seen ... So much for socializing.
ioto1902 is offline  
Old Jun 21, 2015, 2:13 pm
  #13  
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 115
Originally Posted by eternaltransit
So, OP, sorry to hear that you weren't really happy with your flight. Now, I am quite familiar with the hospitality industry and I hate to see customers blamed when they get disappointed because after all you have spent a lot of money and weren't satisfied. However, I think you have to draw a distinction between whether the provider (in this case EK) fell short on delivering what they are supposed to by their own standards, i.e. a service failure, or whether your priorities and expectations are simply mismatched with what they are offering.

I think we see a bit more than average on the EK forum of the clash of travelling culture - passengers from many countries have been trained not to press call bells, not to demand what they want and rely only on what's offered or to be asked (a rather more passive model of service) - and judge their perceptions of service on the offerings: do you get hot towels, how frequent are drinks runs, whether staff chat to you. However, EK, along with the other ME carriers train their staff from a different perspective: they expect their customers to be demanding, to press call buttons and to call over staff when they want something, and to not disturb people if they can help it. You see this tradition of hospitality especially if you visit EKs major source markets - they are more geared to be summoned like (household/service) staff, and that's perfectly fine.

So, you get a situation where crew are puzzled that people who want things like more drinks, more cups, snacks, change of food because it's not nice, but don't make their concerns known to the crew - whereas those passengers sit there and stew because the crew can't seem to read their minds or facial expression (they wait to be asked "how is everything" - but the question is never forthcoming). You can see how this creates a bit of a conundrum.

You can see this in all classes of service - F, J and Y on EK (after all, the F model is to close the doors and use the seat phone or call bell to summon service if you want anything, otherwise to be left alone!). Couple this with the fact most Y crew are of the ages of 21-25, their first real job after university, and it is not seen to be a proper hospitality career by most of them, and you can see how mind-reading and service anticipation is not perhaps their fort.

It sounds like you place the highest priority on being offered everything in one go and to have crew engage with you and to make conversation - and it's coming into a clash with a service culture where passengers usually demand things instantly, to be as quick as possible and to not bother them. If passengers want to be entertained, they have arguably the best inflight entertainment system in the world and failing that wi-fi. Inseat power and USB to charge your devices. The crew (in Y) are there to serve, run drinks every so often, but more to get out of your way. After all there are 398-426 other people to serve in a short amount of time.

In my experience with Y crew, they are all actually quite willing to engage in conversation and friendly banter if you go and say hello to them in the galleys (between services). They are unfailingly helpful if you go and ask them for drinks or snacks in their galleys - unlike many other carriers whose staff will give you death stares and ignore you if you enter "their space". The problem on the A380s is that there are no seats in the galleys and the curtaining system still leaves the passenger cabin rather open (by design). Thus, you will always see crew, during their lunch break, eating on the jump seats which are in plain view. On the 777 for instance, you can eat in the galley out of sight. This is impossible on the A380 (except for 2 seats at the rear of the A380 away from any galleys). Similarly, it makes it more difficult for you to strike up conversation as you could in the rear of a 777, but then again, if one is dying for conversation with crew, I think one would make the effort and not care!

Still, it is difficult to know all this before you book your flight, which I sympathise with. It sounds like that your happiness and satisfaction with hospitality is much more entwined with how you interact with the service staff, rather than things like the hard product and service schedules, so I truly wish you luck on finding another carrier that can deliver that (without being extortionate!).

As to the issues about can size, food quality and drinks runs (which have solutions on board) - I think those issues are minor compared to the cultural clash you would still experience.
Sorry i cant be bothered to read that either......
1 You travel on a plane to get from A to B
2 You stay in a Hotel for the room/bed
3 You eat in a restaurant for food
Dont confuse/mix 1 2 3
enjoyingit is offline  
Old Jun 21, 2015, 7:38 pm
  #14  
 
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Originally Posted by eternaltransit
I have some stuff to do before I can give a more sympathetic, serious reply but quickly: pizza in Y?! I'm definitely flying the wrong routes because I think I would kill for some cheese on toast mid-flight rather than the "light snack" hideous sandwiches!
The US of A flights (from and to Dubai) offer pizzas as a snack inbetween the 1st and 2nd meal. I had one (actually 2 as I asked for a second) last week on my way back from Houston - they were also availble on my fligth Sydney yesterday.

They're too bad and definitely fill a hole.

On a separate note - I do feel that the Economy service has been slipping over the past few months, just little things. Yesterday when I boarded at DXB, there was no one at the door, just walked straight on (this also happened a couple of weeks ago on a different flight) - As for the "welcolme back Mr Gold/Plat if there's anything...", that now never happens (well to me).
YohYohY is offline  
Old Jun 22, 2015, 1:58 am
  #15  
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 220
Originally Posted by Oceanbound222
Just got back from Dubai flying the new Airbus 380. Economy has 399 seats. The flight attendants, all well under 30-years-old, treated passengers with the most impersonal service I have ever witnessed. No smiles. No hello's or chatting. It was rather painful to watch and experience. Yes, they were efficient. I give them that. But I never felt like cattle before in my life.

Also, the flight attendant dinners came from Business Class. They ate these wonderful dinners in front of economy passengers who just finished their lousy economy dinners. Some of the worst food I have eaten on a plane. Pizza tasted like cardboard. Water and juice glasses were always served less than half-filled. Soft drinks served in 6 ounce cans. I watched the flight attendants drink their liquids from personal mugs, not tiny cups like passengers got.
The A380 hasn't been new for like 10 years and they don't call it "cattle class" for nothing.
OMGImInPattaya is offline  

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