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Originally Posted by eightblack
(Post 24807707)
FT take duplicate "handles" seriously and if a member is found to have more than one handle, both accounts are suspended permanently. There are some very technically savvy Mods on the team (I am not one of them :)) and there are a range of features within the VBulletin platform which allow us to perform IP lookup and IP matching queries. No doubt if a person really wanted to create a dupe handle, used a VPN or similar to create multiple IPs then they could.
But in the end, we will find out. And taken in context of the size of this thread, is vote manipulation really that useful? Yes, I don't think that FT is really that influential in the scheme of things, but it would be a shame if later down the line the poll gets cited in some sort of dubious official presentation as flimsy evidence that "even the travelling public think it's a scam" - given the size of the thread, and I don't expect new readers to read all the way through, I think it would be a shame if people got misrepresented externally (there's enough of that within the thread already!). |
Originally Posted by iahphx
(Post 24803353)
The terminals are full of frightened people sitting on the floors because they’ve no facilities, being shouted at by airline agents and cabin crew who are stressed themselves because of the working conditions. Wow -- I must have missed these conditions on my last 1,000 USA domestic flights. But everything Tim Clark says is the whole truth and nothing but the truth, right?
Originally Posted by New York Times
U.S. Airports Are Better, but Not Best By JOE SHARKEY MAY 6, 2015 Tracy Sear said that when she started as a flight attendant in 1968, “air travel was a lot more expensive, dollar for dollar, and most airports were not all that convenient even for things like having a meal.” On the other hand, added Ms. Sear, who is now a flight attendant with American Airlines, “In general, people spent a lot less time in an airport than they do now. And airports definitely were not retail hubs like they are now.” <snip> Ms. Sear is among the frequent travelers dismayed by the common sight in major airports of exhausted people often sprawled on floors as others gingerly step around them. “It used to be you only saw that when people were, like, stuck at the airport for three days or something,” she said. You mentioned PHL a few posts back. I flew back from there last summer - on a hellish US Airways flight that was late to board, sat on the tarmac for hours while the engineers tried to close a door, before we were offloaded and forced to tramp to the opposite side of the terminal to board a new plane - which took forever to service. I was lucky to get a seat at both gates, but there were tens of people all around both gates, sprawled on the floors. |
Originally Posted by iahphx
(Post 24806596)
I am sure if you asked him today whether Emirates is unfairly subsidized, he would agree with me.
Originally Posted by iahphx
(Post 24806596)
BTW, I think the following is very instructive in deciphering the truth here. If Doug Parker or Richard Anderson were to lie about their company's financials, they would likely go to jail. What do you think would happen to the CEOs of the ME3 if they were less-than-candid about their airline's financials?
I think everyone knows that they would likely be in line for a raise.
Originally Posted by iahphx
(Post 24806596)
That's the difference folks. Whether you want to believe it or not. Democracy and the rule of law still mean something.
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Originally Posted by iahphx
(Post 24803353)
The terminals are full of frightened people sitting on the floors because they’ve no facilities, being shouted at by airline agents and cabin crew who are stressed themselves because of the working conditions. Wow -- I must have missed these conditions on my last 1,000 USA domestic flights. |
Originally Posted by eternaltransit
(Post 24807002)
Your argument is, that, because the Dubai is not a democracy, their financial statements are lies - in fact, that the management will be rewarded for doing so - and furthermore that democracy and the rule of law is a strong enough incentive and political climate for there to be no corporate malfeasance in jurisdictions that try and uphold those principles (i.e. western democracy).
Now, I thought your ethnocentrism with regards to US airlines and your subtext through the entire thread was mainly based on your apparent track record of having made money in US3 airline investment and wondering how anyone can make similar margins using different business models. Instead I now think that there is a rather unattractive feedback loop between your investment success and some sort of latent xenophobia, which is fuelling this idea of cultural superiority and I'm sorry to say, cultural racism, which goes some way to explaining the rather personal level of generalisations and assumptions you have made here (e.g. accusing people of being "apologists" - which these days has a rather negative connotation). For instance, let's take your claim about falsification of accounts. There is absolutely no correlation between corporate fraud and the presence of a "democracy and rule of law". Clearly corporate fraud still occurs in the most transparent of jurisdictions. We can go further though and indulge your idea that management gets rewarded for inflating the numbers. Given that EK is based in Dubai and the government is a totalitarian dictatorship, and EK is wholly owned by the government - why would management even bother publishing accounts anyway? Why would they both inflating numbers - if they want to steal money from the owner, they would underreport revenue and claim losses and wait for cash injections. They would inflate earnings and revenue to make the company look healthier than it is - but since the owner is funding these apparent losses and is the sole owner - what would be the point? The owner knows the true state of the finances yet goes through this whole charade of falsified accounts - for what purpose, considering this is supposed to be a tyrannical regime that can suppress information? It just makes no sense - are they trying to look healthier so that people will lend them money? But Dubai is already borrowing money to inject into the airline, by this thesis (as we know independently that Dubai has no money for all the reasons stated before) - so why bother with the charade at all? Why not publish no information - clearly you can still fly around and have your landing rights, given that constantly loss making airlines and state-owned airlines from other parts of the world have no problem with that - and do all the borrowings under the sovereign or a sovereign-backed entity and inject the cash into EK. Why the charade? Obviously, all management of the ME3 serve at the pleasure and whim of their authoritarian governments. They were certainly hired to do a job. It's not hard to figure out what that job was. If you think they have as much truth-telling responsibility as the CEOs of publicly-traded US corporations, I think you are flat out wrong.
Originally Posted by DYKWIA
(Post 24807577)
I think the OP has long since realised that EK is not a scam. He's now trying to save face (tough task) by pushing QR and EY into the mix.
I've made a resolution that from now, I'm staying out of this thread until something concrete is posted. There's no point engaging with the OP, as he'd argue that the sky was green and grass was blue and ignore anybody who proved otherwise.
Originally Posted by irishguy28
(Post 24808116)
The New York Times seems to concur with Mr. Clark!!
I must say, it also concurs with my experiences. You mentioned PHL a few posts back. I flew back from there last summer - on a hellish US Airways flight that was late to board, sat on the tarmac for hours while the engineers tried to close a door, before we were offloaded and forced to tramp to the opposite side of the terminal to board a new plane - which took forever to service. I was lucky to get a seat at both gates, but there were tens of people all around both gates, sprawled on the floors. |
Mr. Bluster
I'm still waiting for people here to acknowledge that Tim Clark is a bully. Take his latest comments, which appeared in that local interview and are now making the wire service rounds. He's says that in response to the USA airlines going after Emirates, he's thinking of adding more flights from Europe to the USA.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/...0Y41U620150513 All I can say is let him try it. More than half of Congress has already written to demand limitations on ME3 flying, and I would anticipate 90% of Congress would sign such a letter if new European flights were added. Clark, of course, knows this. Which is why such flights would never be scheduled now. But he's a bully. He can't help himself with the bluster. Which is bad for Emirates, because such threats will not play well in the USA. |
Originally Posted by iahphx
(Post 24808270)
Um, no.
Weird stuff happens everywhere, but anyone who visits a USA airport and expects to find "exhausted people sprawled on floors," well, they're probably going to have to spend weeks living at the gate areas looking for such activity. How much money do you have invested in US3 stock? What is the REAL reason for starting this thread? |
Originally Posted by iahphx
(Post 24808270)
There are many, many reasons why the ME3 -- and their governments -- would want to make their airlines look more financially successful than they are. Let's start with the obvious, as it relates to this thread. If the ME3 simply admitted that they've lost billions in the past decade, would the US gov't be likely to allow them to dump more loss-making seats into the USA? Of course not.
We are not talking about one cash injection, we are talking about $42 Billion in total. We are still looking for just one expert supporting the views of the EK fans on this board... I understand that the specific knowledge when it comes to airline management is severely limited in some cases, hence I do not expect them to see the obvious, but I did not really expect such completely irrational comments. It is beautiful to see Clark point out the obvious... I am pretty sure that all airports in the US and all airlines in the US would look nicer after cash injections of $42 Billion over the last ten years. :D |
Originally Posted by iahphx
(Post 24808270)
There are many, many reasons why the ME3 -- and their governments -- would want to make their airlines look more financially successful than they are. Let's start with the obvious, as it relates to this thread. If the ME3 simply admitted that they've lost billions in the past decade, would the US gov't be likely to allow them to dump more loss-making seats into the USA? Of course not. They obviously have been trying to hide the economic realities of their business plans, until the USA airlines hired investigators to get to the bottom of things. We already have most folks on this thread (no friends of the USA airlines) admitting that at least 2 of the 3 Gulf airlines are heavily subsidized. I consider that progress. :)
As for Etihad and Qatar - their accounts are, certainly, far more opaque. No-one can "admit" to the use of subsidies (the act of admission, in any case, is an act that can only be performed by the accused!) until such time as we see EY and QR's detailed responses.
Originally Posted by iahphx
(Post 24808270)
Obviously, all management of the ME3 serve at the pleasure and whim of their authoritarian governments. They were certainly hired to do a job. It's not hard to figure out what that job was. If you think they have as much truth-telling responsibility as the CEOs of publicly-traded US corporations, I think you are flat out wrong.
How familiar are you with the politics of the UAE to call it an "authoritarian government"? Your implication that both government and business in the UAE apparently functions solely on the basis of lies, subterfuge and deception does clearly leave you open to a charge of racism.
Originally Posted by iahphx
(Post 24808270)
You know, Emirates' sympathizers like to claim I'm racist and resort to stereotypes, but they themselves actually do so at whim. I travel in US airports almost every week, and foreign airports almost every month, and there is nothing particularly unpleasant about USA airports. Weird stuff happens everywhere, but anyone who visits a USA airport and expects to find "exhausted people sprawled on floors," well, they're probably going to have to spend weeks living at the gate areas looking for such activity.
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Originally Posted by iahphx
(Post 24808299)
I'm still waiting for people here to acknowledge that Tim Clark is a bully. Take his latest comments, which appeared in that local interview and are now making the wire service rounds. He's says that in response to the USA airlines going after Emirates, he's thinking of adding more flights from Europe to the USA.
It is the US3 that are campaigning to block access to EK. A bully is usually recognised as someone that interferes with the genuine rights of another. Not the person who is exercising their genuine rights! |
Originally Posted by FD1971
(Post 24808349)
It is beautiful to see Clark point out the obvious...
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Originally Posted by FD1971
(Post 24808349)
I understand that the specific knowledge when it comes to airline management is severely limited in some cases, hence I do not expect them to see the obvious, but I did not really expect such completely irrational comments.
Originally Posted by irishguy28
A bully is usually recognised as someone that interferes with the genuine rights of another. Not the person who is exercising their genuine rights!
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So we've gone from cheerleaders to apologists to sympathizers to fans. Have we had enough with categorizing people? And is this how far you can try to understand people - just at the superficial level?
@iahphx, if the bill draft you mention is this far ahead you've got nothing to fear or worry about then! And all this storm is pointless. @FD1971, Not only the 42 billions is such a random figure, it's pretty weak on your side to quote it as fact when we have shown over and over that it bears no meaning except the size of fallacy the US3 and their media machine have fallen into. As for your wonder, I say, why is it that so many 'experts' came out in support of the US3 allegations? Experts are too easy to hire and buy. And we've shown on numerous occasions how their so-called articles are nothing but fluffed up snippets from the US3 factoids. In post 1501 (page 101) I referenced some of the articles on US gov subsidies and concessions to US carriers; now why is it OK to tailor make policies and divert public monies to a private enterprise with private shareholders, but it's all shock and horror for a sovereign government to invest in their own airline? Isn't that epitome of hypocrisy? |
Originally Posted by lokijuh
(Post 24807392)
I think FD1971 has provided much more engaging and credible input to support the premise of this thread than the OP.
As pointed out before, I am working in this industry, I have consulted many many of the major airlines, I have given courses at most of the leading universities dealing with Aviation/Airline Management and I attended the vast majority of all aviation related conferences over the last 10-15 years, so with all due respect, I should have an idea what I am talking about. And since I do not work for any specific airline and only speculate with airline stock a little bit, I also do not sit or stand in a certain corner of a stadium, I just care about good management, btw, not only when it comes to airlines. I really understand that most of the contributors lack the specific knowledge, hence I am always happy (if I find the time) to explain certain things to them (free of charge) or even invite them to a conference in order to make them learn more. This is a complex industry after all, this is an industry with a poor track record financially, actually it was used by HBS and Porter 35 years ago as an industry, which is constantly underperforming financially. ;) |
Originally Posted by FD1971
(Post 24808349)
It is beautiful to see Clark point out the obvious...
I am pretty sure that all airports in the US and all airlines in the US would look nicer after cash injections of $42 Billion over the last ten years. :D Of course, if the airport authority, the regulators and the airline were all the same company -- all aimed at enhancing the glory of the government -- things would be different. :) |
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