I don't like the new reservation system, nor the new time table: it is not accurate: for example, if you have a flight operated by a 767, you can't know whether it is a 767-200 or -300: they are listed as "767-200/300"; and of course, it is not possible anymore to know whether it is a 767-200 or -200ER!
Then, LY only owns 757-200s, and yet, flights operated by 757-200s are listed as "757-200/300" :confused:

The flight schedule timetable is not good; I prefered the older one

very disappointing:mad:

lets keep thing in porportions
Are you comparing the first few days of one of the largest and most sophisticated airport terminals for one of the biggest airlines in the world to a long over due internet booking system for a small airline !?!?!?!?!

Wow - the new "online schedule" function is really BAD. The old one was much better, in comparison. There is no way to tell what a/c type is really going to be used. They don't show you per day, but rather per week. Its not possible that they use the same a/c type each day - never works that way with LY.

I just can't beleive that they put the new interface up without testing it first. This baby is sooooo not ready for prime-time.

Indeed, you have to go to "flight reservation" to see the a/c used: otherwise, they just say "equipment varies" grrrrrrr; and as I have just told, it is impossible to make the difference between a 762 and a 763!

You are right
I am not sure they will solve it soon.
There are too many basic mistakes in the system.
I am trying to book a flight to AMS and back from SXF,,,
doesn't work.

Maybe after the Hagim.
@:-)

Well, considering that the UK government is trying to fix things up as best as they can, and there is talk of the entire top tier of BA management resigning, I would say that it is quite a monumental disaster. 450 cancelled flights in the first week, and at least 25,000 suitcases stuck is no small matter. The place was supposedly being dry-run for 3 months before it opened. It is, without doubt, one of the biggest British building fiascos ever (read the BBC and the UK newspapers and you will get a better picture).

I agree with ly787.
Mike, I don't think ly787 doubted what you are saying regarding the T5 shambles.
I agree that the whole T5 disaster was a total disgrace (still is in fact) you cannot compare the two.

While whether you will be traveling on a 762 or 762-ER doesn’t make the slightest bit of difference, the difference between the 762 and 763 does, I agree.
The seating configurations are different; and the 763 is a much nicer newer aircraft.

This new system sounds awful.
Since we now have 2 LY insiders here, perhaps one of them would like to take this to their attention and get something done about it?

actually there is a difference between the 767 and 767ER In the 767 the pitch in business is 55 and in the 767ER the pitch is 60.

When will LY's top tier start paying for their mistakes?

With LY there is ALWAYS a feeling of "something is missing" or "not perfect", since the Borovitch are around.

1. Not exactly First Class. Its actually a Flat Business Class seat with business class "tray" food service.
2. The buisness class - better than they had but still not great.
3. The new AVOD only in TWO a/c.
4. The mood lighting never used properly.
5. New seats only in C and F - not in Y.
etc etc etc

Ah - and the "NEW" EWR lounge - outside the terminal in the Marriott.

I don't think that Borovitch has anything to do with the current malaise. They are in it for the money. If the management makes more money they will stay. If not, they will go.

I think that the root problem with the First Class product (and I have told EL AL's management this directly on more than one occasion) is rather like those Israelis who, in the 1980's would say that the economic solutions which cures the British and European economies would not work in Israel, because the Israeli economy 'was different' and the rules which worked in the rest of the world wouldn't work here. Of course, as we now know, they were quite wrong. I think that somehow, EL AL's management feel that 'EL AL is different', and what works for other airlines First Class product doesn't apply to them. Now, they may be correct with respect to some things, but I am not at all convinced. They make a big noise about the price of A class to NYC being reduced as a result of making it more cramped, but all that happened was that BA reduced their prices as well ... for a 'real' F product!

Having been in the new 772 F cabin last week for the first time, all I can say is that the whole thing probably boils down to 60 cm. I reckon that by adding 30cm to each row in F they would have a F product where the window seat passenger doesn't need to climb over and disturb the aisle passenger (because of this I always book seats D or G in the new F on the 772). That boils down to one row of economy seats ... what can I say?

1. I think the borovitch have everything to do with the problems. They are not running the airline in the most professional way. I have a business and I make sure EVERYTHING i approve is to the highest standard. Even if I try to save money and take a cheaper option sometimes, I make sure the product is as perferct as it can be.
2.I dont know what they are taking about "lowering" the First Class fares. I have noticed that they are back up to what they were and even this morning I posted that I saw on the new website First class fare in May to NY was almost $10,000!!! $12,000 to LAX!!
3.Pitch in First is about 72". In Business its 60". I recently flew on the new a/c in First back from HKG. Luckily we were only 4 pax, i didnt even want to think about how it would have been with 12 pax! The food was good, but i think its unexceptable to serve the food on trays. I dont care that thats the only way they can serve the window pax - then they should either call the service BUSINESS class or increase the pitch!
4. I hope everyone know and realizes that the seat in First is almost the same exact seat as in the Business Class. The difference lies in the pitch and a little bit in the width. The LY First Class seat is usually used by airlines that have 6 across in Business (mostly in A340's) What really annoyed me was that EL AL makes the "BIG NOISE" on how these new 772 have the latest and most sophistacted technology and produst when actually its not so. The AVOD is new - ok. The mood lighting is relatively new - but hardly anyone in LY knows how to properly use it.
BUT the seats!! - Those seats have been around for a few years:
1. South African's Business class in the A340 is the same seats as LY has now in First. It was introduced over 3 years ago. http://www.flatseats.com/Gallery/SA-J-1.htm
2. Finnair's Business is same as new LY Business but was introduced over 2 years ago
http://www.flatseats.com/Product/new...air-050106.htm
3. Austian's business is same as new LY buisness Also from over a year ago
http://www.flatseats.com/Gallery/OS-5.htm
4. Iberia's Business is the LY First Class seat but with a little less pitch than LY's first.
5. The only airline that uses the same LY First seats in First is AIR MAURITIUS, but they have 80". And it was introduced over a year ago as well. http://www.flatseats.com/Product/news-mau01Jan.htm
I would hardly call these seats the latest and best!

They claim that the tray service has nothing to do with the difficulty of serving the window seats, but was an independent decision based on 'customer feedback'. It would seem that some of their most regular F passengers don't care much for having a restaurant style meal but would rather have something quick and go to sleep. That is why they went over to the tray service. I think the decision is terribly flawed (especially as most of the serious airlines have now abandoned tray service even in business class!). I find it quite awful to be honest, however good the food is (and from London it really is pretty good nowadays).

so now the booking works

but still not possible to book returning from a different destination.

The global one. El Al is the 152nd airline to migrate their Res to Amadeus :D

Touch wood seems like its going fine. Best of luck to LY and everyone in TLV for the cutover.

Three days later and still not possible to make a booking on the new system - returning from a different destination.

Disgrace

are you at all surprised?

the good side and some bad
 

Good :There are no time limits now for ticketing...

Bad : There are places on I class to NY and as a PL
I can get this place on D, The system doesn't know
this rule... (not yet)

LiorM

Give it a year or two...

Apart from the already mentioned hopeless online schedule, which cannot even tell you what aircraft will fly on any particular day (and the information IS available elsewhere) the schedule itself will not work on Firefox at all. I have never encountered ANY other airline website anywhere which will only work on Internet Explorer. Just which idiots are 'developing' the software for EL AL?

Going fine? It’s a load of c***! :td:
Have you read peoples posts here about it? (in the other thread...)


Oh, and welcome to FT JGPH1! :)

so when do the heads start rolling?

Haim Romano - should be the first to leave
bring back Amos Shapira!

As far as LY is concerned, they have rolled out their new "Cutting edge", "state-of-the-art" reservations system with great success!

I guess that by "cutting edge" they meant cutting the edge of the information given on the website (like the flight schedules) :D

I must be missing something. I am trying to look in the Seats & Meals system. I have a PNR that starts with Z, not L or M. I don't see how I bypass the (let us convert your L or M PNR to a new one) system to be able to input my Z PNR.

Maybe thats the new PNR, no need to convert.


BTW - still no fixed the problems with the website

Web-site
 

Dear Sir
EL-AL's web-site homepage, as well as various applications such as the online reservation and check-in are applicable with Firefox. We are currently in an ongoing procedure of matching the web site with all of the popular browsers.
The online schedule which has been launched as part of the new reservation system - Amadeus is a top tear system that provides a wide variety of useful information such as airplane models, terminals and more. You should be able to use the system also with the Firefox browser.
In any case we will investigate your complaint with the supplier and we will make sure this application supports all of the popular browsers as promised.


EL AL Rep.

Clubman do you know what's the story with us seeing seatmaps now in EF or PNR's in CheckMyTrip.com?

Dear El Al Rep.,

I'm sorry to say that your website has some serious issues with compatibility to browsers that are not made by Microsoft and are not called Internet Explorer. I'm also sorry to say that while Amadeus should be better with compatibility to other browsers, it is only a component in your system and to get to those components you still have to browse via the main web pages of elal.com which (as mentioned) have compatibility issues.

Amadeus indeed provides information such as airplane models but Carmel gave a specific model while Amadeus gives "Boeing 767-200/200ER" or "Equipment varies" - needless to say, this is a serious downgrade to the services given to the passenger by your website.

apirchik.

Correct. But without getting past the 'convert' page there doesn't seem to be a way to input the new PNR to adjust a seat or meal.

This is not the case. Please do the following in Firefox:

1) Go to http://www.elal.co.il/ELAL/English/States/General/
2) Input your LY Matmid number and password and submit
3) Click on My Account
4) Click on Account Balance
5) Click on Display Reports


Do you consider the result to be a web site that works in Firefox?!

I complained about it in September of 2006. It took El Al 2 months to respond to my complaint. 2 months! 2 months!!! Good thing I'm Gold. Imagine if I had no status.

The guy I spoke with understood that the problem may be from a problem with the CSS style sheet. It was fixed within a month or so. Worked fine for a short period. Then reverted back to the same crap you see now.

Does El Al take no pride in QAing your website and making sure it works?

Also, why is it taking almost a week for points to post now? I flew on Saturday night and it is now Thursday. Before it would take only 2 days or so.

I'm seeing the PNR I'm currently in the middle of just fine in CheckMyTrip.com. It even gives me the PNRs for the non-LY segments which are linked. Are you having trouble?

Just about halfway through the PNR. Sayonara!

It all comes down to the old adage - "Garbage in, garbage out". Amadeus (and the LY website) display only the information provided. If LY publish "767" as the aircraft type in the schedule, the correct IATA equipment code translation for "767" is "Boeing 767-200/300", and that is what Amadeus (and therefore the website) will display. If LY publish "762" or "763", the correct IATA codes for the 767-200 and 767-300 respectively, then "Boeing 767-200" and/or "Boeing 767-300" will be displayed. It's not the system's fault.

All I've seen in the threads are some issues with the website. News from TLV seems to indicate that the cutover went very smoothly. People .....ing about seeing "Boeing 767-200/300" is hardly what one might call a show-stopper. :)

How about check-in agents ... how did you say... ".....ing" about how the system just doesn't move when they are trying to check in you in TLV? Does that count as 'smooth'?

So you work for Amadeus?

It is the fault of the business processes that have been put in place as a part of rolling out Amadeus. As customers we really couldn't give two hoots about the software, only the results that we feel. LY made a big deal about the fact that they are making changes. They put the emphasis on the new software and what it will enable them to do. The results has been a degradation in service perceived by their customers. So whether the integration messages passed between Amadeus and some other system are technically working or not doesn't really matter to us. If they didn't make these changes in conjunction with Amadeus then Amadeus wouldn't be the focal point. They did and so in the mind of us, the customers, the system is at fault. You are telling us that we should be happy with the degradation in service?

I'm not sure I understand the nature of this 'degradation of service'. As a plane-spotting anorak I always like to know what kind of aircraft I'm flying on but to the vast majority of the flying public, they couldn't tell the difference between an A380 and Tiger Moth as long as it gets them where they're going. As long as you can see the seatmap and select your seat, that should be OK, right ? Besides, LY went through an unheard of change of all of their seating row numbers on all their aircraft to ensure that regardless of the aircraft type, all the same row numbers will have the same sorts of characteristics so that the front row numbers are the same for each cabin for example. This is to allow them to swap out aircraft easily while making it easier for passengers to remember the seat rows that they prefer. El Al do a very high number of aircraft swaps because of their small fleet and high utilization.

The check in system hasn't changed - it is still Carmel. El Al will be migrating their check-in system only next year.

1. Not being able to book returning rom a different destination 5 days later after the system was introduced is definetly a "show-stopper"


but this discusiion should be continued in the other thread:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=797678

double post

1. JGPH1 - so its obvious you work in AMADUES now :)
It vey important the different a/c type:
- Entertainment System - some have and some dont have, some have AVOD, some dont
- Seat pitch - Different on different a/c type - some have average of 32" and some average at 34"
- Try flying on a non ER 767 and an LY 763ER and you will understand many other differences.

So finally its possible to returning from a different destination but only in ENGLISH !!!! The system doenst recognize returning from a different destination in hebrew !!!!!!! And thats 5 days after the system has been introduced.
I noticed they alao added a "modify reservation" option !!!! maybe someone is reading this forum and taking notes.

I almost had to give them credit!

1) The tab in to "Reservations" doesn't work in Firefox. If you move to Hebrew the tab to "עדכון הזמנות" does work in Firefox.
2) The page with the verification code has a screwed up html table and I have to scroll right to see the code and the box to put in the code.
3) I went to View Your Reservation in Firefox and put in my PNR and name. The "Continue" button doesn't work.
4) If you put in a wrong PNR you get to a page where you can put it in again but that also suggest to use a box below to sign into your account and see a list of upcoming trips. The button to submit this information... yep.. doesn't work.
5) Go back to the previous page to enter in the PNR correctly, the page keeps populating the mistaken PNR.

Now, when in IE you finally get to the page listing the flights on the PNR, it actually looks good. I assume this is standard Amadeus HTML with LY having nothing but styling to do.

6) Clicking to Modify Passenger Details gives me not my LY Matmid number populated, but another one which is one one of the other PNR legs.
7) None of the personal details they have for me are in the details of the PNR.

I have always said that we Israelis are great at developing technology but horrible at actually using it. The folks working on the website must be related to someone because they sure have no idea what they are doing when it comes to delivering a working web application.

JGPH1 perhaps you folks at Amadeus can suggest to LY that you will help them on this one as it obviously makes the switchover look bad.