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-   EL AL | Matmid (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/el-al-matmid-610/)
-   -   OT: SDV is closing (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/el-al-matmid/1976207-ot-sdv-closing.html)

LY777 Jul 3, 2019 9:02 am
Originally Posted by NYTA (Post 31264815)

I think what ruins Eilat is the corporate package tour machines that drive low-mid level employees of Israeli corporates to 3-4 day family vacations there. I have been a guest for some of them and they can be quite eye-opening in terms of the guests and their behavior.
I agree with you

LY777 Jul 3, 2019 9:04 am
Originally Posted by BATLV (Post 31264944)
the other problem of Eilat is that you have nothing to do there outside the pool/beach.
You’re not fair, sorry

moe8555 Jul 3, 2019 9:09 am
Originally Posted by NYTA (Post 31264815)
I think what ruins Eilat is the corporate package tour machines that drive low-mid level employees of Israeli corporates to 3-4 day family vacations there. I have been a guest for some of them and they can be quite eye-opening in terms of the guests and their behavior. There are hotels in Eilat I would not return to because of this.
This is a huge issue. Otherwise quality hotels get overrun by families that - let's face it - would not normally be in the appropriate socio-economic/education bracket to stay at such a property. I'm happy they get to experience it, but many times the behavior is absolutely inappropriate for what is expected of a guest at a 4 or 5 star hotel. Obviously not everyone on a subsidized vacation is like that, but quite a few are. I wish I was savvy enough to rephrase it to sound less snobby and aloof, but it is the truth...

sds1493 Jul 3, 2019 9:34 am
Originally Posted by BATLV (Post 31264713)
One of the reasons is that they do not cook on Friday nights and Saturdays. So you get heated and not fresh food. For the same price of course. I am not an expert but there is some kind of regulation that requires major hotels in Israel to keep kosher. I think the only exceptions are a few boutique hotels in Tel Aviv and Arab owned and operated hotels such as the American Colony in Jerusalem (which is an amazing hotel, speaking of).

Now Eilat being a dump does not draw significant non-Jewish tourism, hence there is a large demand for kosher. It is a closed circle.
The new W in Jaffa is not kosher. The hotels in Eilat are kosher for commercial reasons; there are evidently more people who wouldn't choose a specific hotel if it wasn't kosher, than those who would only go if it was not kosher.
I agree with you that Eilat has a tourism issue, but I do not think it is due to the kosher status of the hotels.

LY777 Jul 3, 2019 9:46 am
Originally Posted by sds1493 (Post 31265548)
but I do not know what think it is due to the kosher status of the hotels.
Of course it is not :rolleyes:

nombody Jul 3, 2019 11:17 am
Originally Posted by NYTA (Post 31264815)
I think what ruins Eilat is the corporate package tour machines that drive low-mid level employees of Israeli corporates to 3-4 day family vacations there. I have been a guest for some of them and they can be quite eye-opening in terms of the guests and their behavior.
I agree with you for a different reason. These corporate deals allow the hotels in Eilat to sell rooms at lower prices off the market, then to the public booking engines they show high room occupancy rates and therefore higher prices than would be justified in low seasons. These hotels would rather let the rooms be empty than lower their prices in the public booking engines.

BATLV Jul 3, 2019 12:43 pm
Originally Posted by LY777 (Post 31265453)


You’re not fair, sorry
How am I not fair?

BATLV Jul 3, 2019 12:46 pm
Originally Posted by sds1493 (Post 31265548)
The new W in Jaffa is not kosher. The hotels in Eilat are kosher for commercial reasons; there are evidently more people who wouldn't choose a specific hotel if it wasn't kosher, than those who would only go if it was not kosher.
I agree with you that Eilat has a tourism issue, but I do not think it is due to the kosher status of the hotels.
There is not a single multinational brand hotel in Eilat. Accor is not there, Hilton is not there, Marriott is not there. It tells a lot. Yes, kosher is not the only problem, but it is a problem.

LY777 Jul 3, 2019 1:19 pm
Originally Posted by BATLV (Post 31266197)
How am I not fair?
Eilat is not only sun and beach.
Eilat is also beautiful landscapes in the desert, swimming with the dolphins, beautiful marine life, Timna park nearby...

sds1493 Jul 4, 2019 12:25 am
Originally Posted by BATLV (Post 31266205)
There is not a single multinational brand hotel in Eilat. Accor is not there, Hilton is not there, Marriott is not there. It tells a lot. Yes, kosher is not the only problem, but it is a problem.
IHG have a CP. But I think that the lack of chain hotels is a sign of the hotel's success (likely due to the aforementioned corporate packages), since they do not feel the need to pay the chains a franchise fee.

NYTA Jul 4, 2019 2:55 am
Originally Posted by sds1493 (Post 31267985)
IHG have a CP. But I think that the lack of chain hotels is a sign of the hotel's success (likely due to the aforementioned corporate packages), since they do not feel the need to pay the chains a franchise fee.
I'm no expert on this but my understanding of many of the "Branded" Properties like the Sheraton City Center that became the Leonardo (Ramat Gan) did so because the global brands told the property owners they had to renovate the properties in order to keep the brands and they were too cheap to do so, therefore turning them into "Leonardo" and other less-known brands with lower standards. I know when I stayed at the Sheraton City Center before the changeover it was one of the worst Sheratons I had ever stayed in.

BATLV Jul 4, 2019 5:23 am
Originally Posted by LY777 (Post 31266311)


Eilat is not only sun and beach.
Eilat is also beautiful landscapes in the desert, swimming with the dolphins, beautiful marine life, Timna park nearby...
Swimming with dolphins is technically part of the beach. It is costly and only a small fraction of tourists engage in this activity. Agree on diving, yet it diminishes as a lot of underwater life is gone due to unregulated development and marine works.

The desert, magnificent as it is, does not contribute to Eilat's economy. People who want it stop at the Bereshit hotel in Mitzpe Ramon and do not continue south.

BATLV Jul 4, 2019 5:27 am
Originally Posted by sds1493 (Post 31267985)
IHG have a CP. But I think that the lack of chain hotels is a sign of the hotel's success (likely due to the aforementioned corporate packages), since they do not feel the need to pay the chains a franchise fee.
Right, I forgot CP Eilat. I would have agreed on the second statement but it works both ways. Lack of brand names also indicates the lack of willingness to promote a brand in a place that does not contribute to the strength of the brand. When there is a strong business case the franchise fees can be surprisingly low.

entropy Jul 4, 2019 12:05 pm
Teh "W" in jaffa isn't now just the Jaffa, not flagged a "W"; its a fantastic property with an excellent restaurant.

And there did used to be a hilton there but it probably got deflagged years ago.

BATLV Jul 4, 2019 9:32 pm
Originally Posted by entropy (Post 31269533)
Teh "W" in jaffa isn't now just the Jaffa, not flagged a "W"; its a fantastic property with an excellent restaurant.

And there did used to be a hilton there but it probably got deflagged years ago.
I think you had another Jaffa property in mind , the one in the old police station building


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