EL AL Religious disaster redux
LY flights Thursday PM to TLV delayed due to storms and snow in area
for fear that the planes would land at TLV after the start of shabbat a handful of "religious" hooligans caused a scene on two flights. per the Hebrew reports they maybe including physical violence towards cabin crew. one plane landed at ATH and offloaded them to a hotel other pax were ferried on an Israir flight to TLV the LY plane flew to TLV empty the second plane was to have landed at FCO but per Hebrew reports due to a sick passenger accompanied by an MD that one continued to TLV (supposedly the LY rabbi gave an OK as it involved a life threatening situation in which cases one is allowed to violate the Sabbath) these crazy so called religious forget the Jewish precept that insulting a fellow human in public is a far greater sin than many others maybe e (an old midrash states "it is better to fling oneself into a furnace than insult his fellow man in public") I wonder why LY even allowed them on the plane in NY and if they are so religious they themselves never should have boarded in NY per latest reports police charges are being filed. they should be prosecuted and life time banned from ANY airline world wide |
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now for the non fake news take to what happened..
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And now this in Hebrew:
https://www.ynet.co.il/articles/0,73....html#autoplay And this in English: https://www.timesofisrael.com/religi...-el-al-flight/ |
Here's what I don't understand. The flights in question are LY002, due to land 11:40 on Friday; and LY008, due to land 15:00. Shabbat starts a little after 16:00; surely no religious passenger caring about shabbat would even dream of taking LY008, unless they were spending the weekend at Ben Gurion Airport. But even with the noon arrival of 002, I can't see what these people were thinking: landing at 11:40, door opens at noon, about one hour for immigration and waiting for luggage, then a 30-60 minute ride to Jerusalem or wherever, and they're home just two hours before shabbat. In other words, even a not-very-rare two hour delay would have caused them to "desecrate shabbat". Why do they insist on taking these flights?
When I have to be somewhere 7 time zones away, I make sure to leave enough time for the trip. I would never consider arriving two hours before an important meeting. Let alone an obligation that is life-and-death, as keeping the shabbat seems to be for some. Why do they take these risks? Shuly |
Originally Posted by shuly
(Post 30441158)
Here's what I don't understand. The flights in question are LY002, due to land 11:40 on Friday; and LY008, due to land 15:00. Shabbat starts a little after 16:00; surely no religious passenger caring about shabbat would even dream of taking LY008, unless they were spending the weekend at Ben Gurion Airport. But even with the noon arrival of 002, I can't see what these people were thinking: landing at 11:40, door opens at noon, about one hour for immigration and waiting for luggage, then a 30-60 minute ride to Jerusalem or wherever, and they're home just two hours before shabbat. In other words, even a not-very-rare two hour delay would have caused them to "desecrate shabbat". Why do they insist on taking these flights?
When I have to be somewhere 7 time zones away, I make sure to leave enough time for the trip. I would never consider arriving two hours before an important meeting. Let alone an obligation that is life-and-death, as keeping the shabbat seems to be for some. Why do they take these risks? Shuly |
I know several people who were on that flight who are not Haredi and yet completely contradict EL AL's media spin.
As for why religious people are on that flight to begin with - BESIDES for those who were bumped to begin with, everyone on FT knows you can't always plan the perfect flight. Work obligation, family obligations, etc. That's the reason many of them specifically chose to fly EL AL over any other carrier who wouldn't take Shabbat into consideration. The fact that the flight crew arrived hours late is a disgrace. Had the crew been on time, they likely would've made it before shabbat. By the time they left the gate, the staff knew 100% they wouldn't make it in time. So they should have never departed. Major Issues
Had I bee on the flight, I wouldn't have been violent. But I'd be pissed. Because given the opportunity, I would've not gone on the flight. And many asked for the opportunity to deplane once it became clear they wouldn't make it. (Keep in mind that when they boarded, there was still a great chance of making it on time - the issue was that they boarded long before the full crew arrived.) So I can't even fault for them boarding. Once the issue was made clear, they asked to deplane (and for the most part, didn't even make an issue of the plane itself flying on Shabbat - just that they didn't want to be there), and they were refused. So I would've been pissed at the crew - yes, this is one of those time's it's the crew's fault, not "weather" or "management" or some other one to shift the blame. |
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Originally Posted by Michael Nash
(Post 30439820)
LY flights Thursday PM to TLV delayed due to storms and snow in area
for fear that the planes would land at TLV after the start of shabbat a handful of "religious" hooligans caused a scene on two flights. per the Hebrew reports they maybe including physical violence towards cabin crew. one plane landed at ATH and offloaded them to a hotel other pax were ferried on an Israir flight to TLV the LY plane flew to TLV empty the second plane was to have landed at FCO but per Hebrew reports due to a sick passenger accompanied by an MD that one continued to TLV (supposedly the LY rabbi gave an OK as it involved a life threatening situation in which cases one is allowed to violate the Sabbath) these crazy so called religious forget the Jewish precept that insulting a fellow human in public is a far greater sin than many others maybe e (an old midrash states "it is better to fling oneself into a furnace than insult his fellow man in public") I wonder why LY even allowed them on the plane in NY and if they are so religious they themselves never should have boarded in NY per latest reports police charges are being filed. they should be prosecuted and life time banned from ANY airline world wide I have to assume that most or all of the passengers upset about what the delay and re-routing may mean to meeting of religious obligations got off in Greece. Did the Greek police arrest and charge any passengers from this flight for any unlawful behavior? My take away from this situation is that LY misleading passengers made this situation as bad as it may have been. |
Originally Posted by GUWonder
(Post 30441500)
In which country are police charges being filed, and what are the charges? It will be interesting to see if there are any criminal convictions at all for whatever happened on this flight. I have to assume that most or all of the passengers upset about what the delay and re-routing may mean to meeting of religious obligations got off in Greece. Did the Greek police arrest and charge any passengers from this flight for any unlawful behavior? My take away from this situation is that LY misleading passengers made this situation as bad as it may have been. EL AL policy is not to fly on Shabbat at all, so all passengers, religious or not, Israeli or not, Jewish or not, disembarked in Athens. As I understand it, those willing to fly on Shabbat flew a chartered Israir plane about 3 hours later while those not willing to fly on Shabbat flew Saturday night at around 23:00 local time. |
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Originally Posted by shuly
(Post 30441158)
Here's what I don't understand. The flights in question are LY002, due to land 11:40 on Friday; and LY008, due to land 15:00. Shabbat starts a little after 16:00; surely no religious passenger caring about shabbat would even dream of taking LY008, unless they were spending the weekend at Ben Gurion Airport. But even with the noon arrival of 002, I can't see what these people were thinking: landing at 11:40, door opens at noon, about one hour for immigration and waiting for luggage, then a 30-60 minute ride to Jerusalem or wherever, and they're home just two hours before shabbat. In other words, even a not-very-rare two hour delay would have caused them to "desecrate shabbat". Why do they insist on taking these flights?
When I have to be somewhere 7 time zones away, I make sure to leave enough time for the trip. I would never consider arriving two hours before an important meeting. Let alone an obligation that is life-and-death, as keeping the shabbat seems to be for some. Why do they take these risks? Shuly Only someone who has flown on Thurs night and came in 5 hours late and had to beat the Shabbat clock will never again fly Thur night. Happened to me once from AMS about 15 years ago and I will not fly any longer where my flight is not scheduled to land at least 12 hours before Shabbat. But that is hindsight and wisdom learned. I would bet that out of the 80+ religious people stuck, most had never had such an experience and most will never fly again with only a 5 hour buffer. |
Originally Posted by joshwex90
(Post 30441295)
The fact that the flight crew arrived hours late is a disgrace. Had the crew been on time, they likely would've made it before shabbat. By the time they left the gate, the staff knew 100% they wouldn't make it in time. So they should have never departed. Major Issues
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Originally Posted by joshwex90
(Post 30441295)
The fact that the flight crew arrived hours late is a disgrace. Had the crew been on time, they likely would've made it before shabbat.
By the time they left the gate, the staff knew 100% they wouldn't make it in time. So they should have never departed. Shuly |
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