ELAL FF Program Update...
 

Just a small visit from an old TP... 8-)
(Happily a top tier FF at other airlines for now)

from 10/02/2015 (Some even from now...)

New Points for Level Requirement:
800 for Silver
1500 for GL
3000 for PL
7000 for TP

Bonus tickets will be "priced" by destination and not by area...
So do earning points will be do per destination and not area...

TP will earn extra 70% points (rather 50% of today).

FLY CARD Premium holders will get 20% points for Base point (count for status) & option to convert 20% of the collected point from credit card as base points...
FLY CARD regulars, gets 10% extra points (bonus, not count for status).

Up to know it was good, Now for the bad part:
GL/KD Members that dont fly EL-AL wont be able to use the lounge
Guest companion entry to the lounge will be limited to x guests per year
TP/PL will pay 10$ for each bonuse ticket...
Points transfered from Credit cards will be limited to 3 years (and not as it now, lifetime).

אני רק שם את זה כאן... like we say in hebrew

So they'll require less points for status qualification, but will reward less points for flights (180 to JFK in J versus current 200) and will require much more points for rewards (4000 to JFK in J vs 3000).

Overall - :td::td::td::td::td: And I thought that there can't be any worse than Matmid as it is now... LY always manage to surprise me.

Source - http://www.elal.com/he/FrequentFlyer...s/default.aspx

Quick Summary
 

If anyone need a quick summary of all changes:
http://nmmedia.nextopic.com/ELALOffi...dates_2015.pdf

Having the ability to convert points from CC to Base point doesnt help?
If you buy the ticket with your Credit Card, I think you earn those missing "20" points and even more...

It depends how active you are in other airlines, In Delta if you are not Diamond, it become also a ...... program... and United are copying from Delta now

This option was part of flycard from the day it was launched and should not be considered a part of these changes, as they only apply 6 month afterwars and were announced afterwards. BTW, 20% of the "extra" points earned via the CC can be converted to base point. Meaning - 1 base point = 900 NIS (for flycard premium). And even as an owner of flycard plus a J flight to NYC will earn 216 base points (which, going by what you say is an an increase of 8%, however this 20% bonus also applies before the other changes and as such should not be considered a part of them despite what LY says) despite an increase of 33% in reward prices (3000 vs 4000). Overall this is an increase of 23.4% (=(4000/216)/(3000/200)).

So yes, status will be easier for me, but overall this is not an enhancement, but rather a disappointment, and I'll definitely reconsider my future with LY. It's a shame, as up until now I always thought that LY had a good value for rewards.

Anything in English?

see - http://www.elal.com/en/FrequentFlyer...s/default.aspx

Headline is "Changes in the Matmid Club Program for Israeli Members"

What does this mean for US Matmid Club members?

wow, a 50% increase in prices for C to the east coast... ridiculous.

That you shoud go into the US site (instead of the Israeli) and check it...

This is really bad
An example for NYC

A year ago flight to western Europe in Z was 200 base points plus 50% for PL you get 300 points.
NYC C class reward was 3000 so we get 3000/300= 10 flights

Now a flight to western Europe in Z is 150 base plus 70% for PL and Premium and thus you get 255 points.
NYC C class reward will be 4000 so we get 4000/255=15.69!!! flights

Did I miscalculate?

BTW comparing to BA

Assuming Gold in BA flying C to LHR - each flight is 5540 Avios
for NYC C reward you will need 65000 Avios (and this is with 0$ addition)

That is 65000/5540=11.73 flights
and this is BA C class!

? BA has that fuel surcharge, which I believe is still bigger than LY's.

Since LY doesn't have a real US credit card, you have to rely on HAS/Amex, which put a business class flight at 160-200k comparable points to the east coast (vs 120~140k on US competitors).

The one (and almost only) thing I still appreciated about matmid was the redemption rates, which is why I continued to convert my (Israeli) CC points to Matmid.

This is a serious devaluation, I mean 2600 points in C to London instead of 1800, seriously? 4500 to HKG instead of 3000? :td:

As if Matmid wasn't bad enough before...

HAS is long gone...

LY plans to release a US based CC soon

Looking further into the changes I see almost everything has gone up in terms of the number of points needed including preferential seats, and premium economy (up to 600 points instead of 600 on the longer routes).

Only thing that hasn't changed and in fact better value at times (winter schedule) are UP redemptions.

Well done ELAL for making a c**** program even c****pier... :mad:

What excuse do they have for not lowering fuel surcharges?

Summary of the changes from a North American perspective, http://www.dansdeals.com/archives/54884

oh yeah, and I just got an email from LY, looks like they're giving the FLY Card bennies to non-IL members who transfer CC points into LY...

Very we'll put, basically saying what I says earlier - Matmid just gone from bad to worse...

Bad premium product and now an even worse FF program.
Nothing would intice me to use them on a regular basis.

Official
 

It's now on the El Al website:
http://www.elal.com/he/FrequentFlyer...s/default.aspx

Shuly

So the good news I'm getting from this is...
Welcome back to the LY board ebzed!!

The few good parts have now been devalued beyond recognition. Talk about destroying a product ...

It is important to add to the list of benefits to those who issue FLY CARD:

• A very attractive conversion rate: NIS 250 = 1 Matmid point or NIS190=1 Matmid point if you issue FLY CARD PREMIUM- the most attractive conversion rate in Israel).
  
• Special fares for bonus tickets (much more attractive in most destinations). EL AL will allocate more seats for bonus tickets
  
• Pay part of the cost of flight tickets (purchased via EL AL's website) with points. For the first time you will also get points for that.
  
• 50% discount on payment for one additional piece of baggage beyond the entitlement in Economy Class.
  
• Earn points even faster on purchases from You Club shops.

FLY CARD PREMIUM holders will get even more benfits.

for more details :
FLY CARD:
http://www.elal.com/en/FrequentFlyer.../FLY-CARD.aspx

FLY CARD PREMIUM:
http://www.elal.com/en/FrequentFlyer...D-PREMIUM.aspx

EL AL hasn't changed its FFP policy for almost a decade despite of the changes in the industry. One of the reasons for not doing so , is not having an alternative. Now it does. EL AL has launched FLY CARD and set a significant set of benefits for those who choose to issue it:

• Attractive bonus tickets fares in most destination. EL AL will allocate more seats for bonus tickets.

• A very attractive conversion rate: NIS 250 = 1 Matmid point or NIS190=1 Matmid point if you issue FLY CARD PREMIUM- the most attractive conversion rate in Israel).

• More points for your flight tickets.

• Pay for part of flight tickets, purchased in the website, with points. and also get points for that...

•
50% discount on payment for one additional piece of baggage beyond the entitlement in Economy Class.

• Earn points even faster on purchases from You Club shops.


FLY CARD PREMIUM holders will get even more benefits.

for more details :
FLY CARD:
http://www.elal.com/en/FrequentFlyer.../FLY-CARD.aspx

FLY CARD PREMIUM:
http://www.elal.com/en/FrequentFlyer...D-PREMIUM.aspx

You didn't mention the fact that if you use your FLY CARD credit card you will get more for your purchases:

For example: points given for NIS5000 expenses a month


FLY CARD PREMIUM holder: 26 points
FLY CARD holder: 20 points
NON fly card holder: 7 points in avg.

Needless to say , the more you use your FLY CARD credit card the more you get.

If you are using your FLY CARD for purchases in YOU stores you can get up to 40 points per purchase.

This would get you to you bonus ticket easier than ever.

If you are a Matmid members based in Israel visit this page:

http://www.elal.com/en/FrequentFlyer.../default2.aspx

If you are a Matmid member based out of Israel visit this page:

http://www.elal.com/en/FrequentFlyer...rs-Circle.aspx

What about for those of us in the US?

Surely you are joking. More points for flight tickets? You guys reduced the earnings across the board and then "make up for it" by giving back some of the difference to CC holders... AND you jacked up redemption rates significantly.

What does "not having an alternative" mean? El Al has one alternative that makes a lot of sense: switch from the dumb "matmid point" system to points just like the other 90% of the industry, or perhaps not , as that would show what a terrible value the program is.

This is all a joke. I am a lowly silver whose 2 trips ( with a point/$ upgrade to business) just earned me the 800 points to stay silver. Yes, right before HAAS Advantage "died" I did convert, so I guess I would be eligible for whatever. But, that doesn't take care of my new "downgraded" experience. I have faithfully been flying El Al for more years than I care to admit and I feel like I have been royally scr***d! I just got off the Delta Website and while the business will cost me more--it is a lot more comfortable. ie. 777 still has the crappy angled seat! It is going to take a lot to get me to stay with El Al. It is also real easy to get American Credit cards that give Delta points!

BUT a question. I have a ticket where I am hoping to upgrade with vouchers. I leave for Israel in Dec. but don't return until mid March. Will I still be able to voucher or has that disappeared and will by agent have to figure out some way to keep me in business?

Come on! Even assuming I'll earn 20 more points per month via flycard, then it's a huge devaluation. As I have said before, the flycard benefits were announced more than 3 months before this devaluation, and therefore should be considered separate from this announcement. The only reasons you are pushing them further now are to avoid showing these changes as a huge devaluation, which they are.

Liat I'm sorry but nothing you have copy-psated here could convince me (or anyone else here I would think) that this is anything else but a huge devaluation.

Yes, there might be additional new benefits for CC adopters but looking at the program and the new "enhancements", they do not outweigh the devaluations, and let's not forget that not everyone will or can or will be interested in the CC.

We were all looking forward to seeing what changes were coming hoping whatever they are would make the program better, but we really did not expect this.

I'm really sorry now that I've been converting my CC points to Matmid.

Of course none of this is your fault, but I hope you pass on the message (not that its going to change anything).

Bottom line we can sugar coat it as much as we want. If my calculations are correct (and BTW I did these for many other routes as well) almost all C/F bonus tickets are now effectively 30-60% more expensive!!!
Yes it is easier to get to PL but how does it help me if I need to fly twice as much for a bonus ticket?
This is really bad.

Liat, if you're pushing the FLY Card so much and saying how "special" it is, please let me know if there are ways of getting sign-up bonuses for it (you know, like every major airline does around the world, and even Miles&More does with their C.A.L. credit card in Israel) as well as fee waivers for the first year or so?

By the way, I think you misinterpreted the benfit of: "20% of the "extra" points earned via the CC can be converted to base point" :

As a FLY CARD Premium holder, up to 20% of the points you get for your purchases are being automatically considered a Basic Points.

For Example: if you are A GL member and you accumulated 1500 points for your purchases (CC points) , 300 of these points will be posted as Basic points and will be considered for upgrade to the next tier or for retaining your status.

These points would also be considered for Last Minute Upgrades.

If you evaluate all the benefits that are being given to FLY CARD holders (money wise) you would come to a conclusion that it would be easier to get/retain your premium status, use more points, enjoy special bonus fare, more options to use your points (both with partners and also if you purchase regular tickets on the where you can pay part of your ticket , significant part, with points!.

If you take the FLY CARD Premium you fet more benefits such as priority in Last minute Upgrades :

For Example: if you are a GL member and you are flying with another GL member who bought the same fare ticket , as a FLY CARD Premium holder you get priority over your friend even if he had accumulated more Basic points than you did.

I warmly suggest you will read the list of benefits of FLY CARD to understand their implications over your status and benefits. It really pays to be a FLY CARD holder.

You get sign up bonuses:

1. 50 gift points (Excluding FLY CARD PREMIUM of Bank Leumi)
2. If you take FLY CARD you get 15% discount for purchases in YOU stores (Mega Bul, YOU, Mega Bayir, Dor Alon Gas stations). Limited to purchases in NIS700. i.e NIS105

As to the fee waivers for the first year: We strongly believe in the product. it reallys pays, saves a lot money to its holders and expose them to so many benfits that the monthly fee becomes so marginal and insignificant.

BTW, most CC holders in Israel are paying a monthly fee of NIS12 as it is (soon will grow to NIS14), so the difference becomes even more insignificant especially if you evaluate the benefits you get as a FLY CARD holder.

I have, and while there are some decreases in rates to some of the shorter european destination primarily in Economy, premium cabins are now more expensive to reedem into almost on every route than they were before even for card holders.

What you guys have done is seriously devalued the program, and then gone and tried to sweeten the pill buy saying card holders will have a few extra benefits, even though on the whole, they will still be paying more and earning less than before.
And let's face it, you are basically saying you don't give a monkey's about regular matmid members now that don't hold your CC.

Also, no one has mentioned this yet, but the whole scheme is now a huge mess and very difficult to understand, with various European destinations priced at different redemption rates despite belonging to the same region (why are LHR. AMS, FRA all priced differently?).

Furthermore, the differences between regular Matmid members (the ones you don't care about anymore) and the credit card holders makes no sense, with some destination (again in the same region) being cheaper by 100 points to CC holder, other 200 and some at 300.

It's all one big mess which makes no sense, and whoever it was that revamped the scheme for you guys should be fired.

In the past 24 hours I've spoken to 6 of my friends who are PL and TPLs, and they are furious.
Except for one that doesn't have a choice due to company policy (your saving grace) the others say this is the final straw for them.

If you believe in it so strongly, why are you not willing to waive the fee to show the customer how great it is? You know, the way every other airline works around the world and even how major store cards work in Israel (think Shufersal, Rami Levi, etc.).

"EL AL, Its not an airline, It's a Credit Card Company"

So very true now :(