FlyerTalk Forums

FlyerTalk Forums (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/index.php)
-   EL AL | Matmid (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/el-al-matmid-610/)
-   -   LY refusing to receive the B739 earlier (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/el-al-matmid/1463057-ly-refusing-receive-b739-earlier.html)

gordo6 Apr 30, 2013 11:42 am

LY refusing to receive the B739 earlier
 
According to http://educational.co.il/lost_found.php (sorry, hebrew only):
LY refused to receive the B739 two months earlier then planned. Boeing offer to give LY airplanes which were meant to be delivered to AeroSvit (which doesn't operate any more) because it would require changes to these planes' interior.

What do you think? Should LY have accepted these airplanes anyway?

Liat, can you please give us some more info regarding that decision? Could you also give us some info re which routes they will operate on, and on whether it will have newer business class seats/private TVs/mod-lights? Thanks.

ELY001 Apr 30, 2013 12:10 pm


Originally Posted by gordo6 (Post 20676618)
What do you think? Should LY have accepted these airplanes anyway?

Why should EL AL take a/c early that were meant for another airline and whose interior specifications were not exactly as EL AL wants and ordered them to be? Seems to me like Boeing is desperate to find a taker for these planes and is trying to get EL AL to take them without any compensation.

If I were in EL AL management, I would counter Boeing's offer and tell them that I would accept delivery of these two planes in exchange for, at minimum, a 10% reduction in price EL AL paid for it's order plus the cost of retrofitting the planes to EL AL specifications.

awayIgo Apr 30, 2013 2:17 pm


Originally Posted by ELY001 (Post 20676801)
Why should EL AL take a/c early that were meant for another airline and whose interior specifications were not exactly as EL AL wants and ordered them to be? Seems to me like Boeing is desperate to find a taker for these planes and is trying to get EL AL to take them without any compensation.

If I were in EL AL management, I would counter Boeing's offer and tell them that I would accept delivery of these two planes in exchange for, at minimum, a 10% reduction in price EL AL paid for it's order plus the cost of retrofitting the planes to EL AL specifications.

This post is 100% right on. If we want El Al to improve its' service it can't take leftover "garbage" from others. AND even if the plane is brand new-it is NOT what El Al ordered or wants.

LY777 Apr 30, 2013 2:23 pm

Maybe these planes don't even have the new Sky Interior

joshwex90 Apr 30, 2013 2:54 pm

Agreed - no reason for them to take planes that aren't what they ordered. If LY was offered some form of compensation, such as free retrofit to their requested interior plus a discount, or something, than go right ahead.

ACYYZ/SD Apr 30, 2013 3:53 pm

Something as simple as galley incompatibility proves to be a big headache for any airline. Delayed implementation sounds logical here.

mkilmo May 1, 2013 7:34 am

Retrofit covered by Boeing, yes.

Why would any additional compensation be needed? I mean, LY get's the plane two months ahead. I assume that either these planes will enable to increase frequency (in most cases you can start two months early), or replace less efficient planes (i.e., save more on fuel now).

Unless of course it'll take more than two months of retro-fit...

BizFlyin May 1, 2013 7:55 am

A lot of airlines are pressed for capacity due to delays in aircraft. Can't fault boeing for offering.

joshwex90 May 1, 2013 8:45 am


Originally Posted by mkilmo (Post 20680887)
Retrofit covered by Boeing, yes.

Why would any additional compensation be needed? I mean, LY get's the plane two months ahead. I assume that either these planes will enable to increase frequency (in most cases you can start two months early), or replace less efficient planes (i.e., save more on fuel now).

Unless of course it'll take more than two months of retro-fit...

It's not that Boeing should pay LY should take the planes. It's that LY shouldn't just take these planes early and then have to pay for the retrofit on their own. Boeing should have to pay for the retrofit, not LY. If they're going to replace the planes LY is getting in 2 months, and the retrofit would take longer, then LY should indeed receive more compensation.

Regardless, if Boeing is looking to "unload" these planes, then a good business decision on the part of LY would be indeed to take compensation: You (Boeing) want something [to unload the planes] and I (LY) want something [money]. So it's like a trade

mkilmo May 1, 2013 12:48 pm


Originally Posted by joshwex90 (Post 20681292)
It's not that Boeing should pay LY should take the planes. It's that LY shouldn't just take these planes early and then have to pay for the retrofit on their own. Boeing should have to pay for the retrofit, not LY. If they're going to replace the planes LY is getting in 2 months, and the retrofit would take longer, then LY should indeed receive more compensation.

Regardless, if Boeing is looking to "unload" these planes, then a good business decision on the part of LY would be indeed to take compensation: You (Boeing) want something [to unload the planes] and I (LY) want something [money]. So it's like a trade

OK, we all agree Boeing pays for the retro-fit, and that it makes sense only if it takes less then two months. So, if they leave it at it, no need for further compensation, right?

And on a different note, assuming LY does not take MORE planes, would that mean that ahm... Boeing will try to re-sell LY's planes to some other airline? paying them the compensation for another retro-fit?

awayIgo May 1, 2013 2:18 pm

Boeing will definitely get rid of the metal. They will find someone who needs it. Maybe a small newer airline that doesn't care about retrofit, just wants aircraft.

ELY001 May 1, 2013 2:58 pm


Originally Posted by awayIgo (Post 20683109)
Boeing will definitely get rid of the metal. They will find someone who needs it. Maybe a small newer airline that doesn't care about retrofit, just wants aircraft.

That may be so, but it will take time and in the meantime Boeing will have to absorb inventory costs of storing the planes at their facility for what could be months. Plus, most small newer airlines acquire second hand a/c and not brand new ones.

Hence, there is a dilemma. Boeing can let the a/c sit in Everett and incur those costs, plus the cost of not getting paid for the a/c in the first place OR EL AL management could offer to take these planes immediately for a 10-15% discount off the price LY was paying for their 739's plus the cost of retrofit. EL AL could then bring the planes to Israel and retrofit them at their facility for added revenue paid for by Boeing.

NYTA May 2, 2013 3:39 am

I'll take them if they'll give them for free

Houminer May 2, 2013 9:53 am

This discussion makes me laugh...

ELY001 May 2, 2013 3:06 pm


Originally Posted by Houminer (Post 20687406)
This discussion makes me laugh...

Why does it make you laugh? Is there something inherently humorous about Boeing wanting EL AL to take a/c it built for a now defunct airline which are not up to LY's specifications and without compensation to boot? Kindly explain.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:05 am.


This site is owned, operated, and maintained by MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Copyright © 2026 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.