The Olive Oil thread
 

Hey FT foodies - we've not seemingly covered olive oil in this forum, so I'd appreciate any comments or news to be added here.


I am sure some of you have specific preferences, so I'm interested in what and why you prefer particular oils. Oils are being marketed along the lines of wine, so let's talk about this oil we cook with and eat.


So are you loyal to Spanish, Greek or a local oil?
I've been using Greek oils for some time but just bought some mainstream Spanish oil today (and may switch back if it's not good enough).

Do you sample different oils at your local deli or fruit provider? Try different ones that are on sale or which are well-deserved leaders in taste?

Extra virgin or something a little heavier?

Looking forward to your notes. ;)

Italian, sometimes spanish (though I'd say we recently had a very nice Australian olive oil). Mrs. Phillychuck and I prefer dark, peppery, extra virgin oils. We generally shop at an Italian food store -- in the Italian Market in South Philadelphia (http://www.dibruno.com/), which often has various oils for tasting, has a superb variety of other stuff, and very helpful staff.

Spanish without a doubt. I also pick up two large jugs 3x a year at a small olive oil factory in Southern Spain. Nothing else comes close. When we run out we just don't eat. :p

Always use olive oil as part of the recepie for my pasta. :)

I always thought Richard Branson made his fortunes in the olive oil business.

Does this factory have a name you'd care to share? Sounds like a fabulous find!

I'm still a relative newbie on olive oils. I'm lucky enough to live in Ann Arbor so I tend to use Zingerman's deli as a resource. They carry dozens of impressive oils. http://www.zingermans.com/Search.aspx?kw=olive+oil


I'm also a fan of "The Spendid Table." And here's a distributor from their website...http://www.organicoliveoilcompany.com/

For me it all boils down to three words, Extra virgin, and cost
I'm not an oil snob chasing dainty bottles. I buy big containers of the stuff and I decant.
I use Spanish oil due to affordability and sometimes Greek ones.
If it's extra virgin and affordable, I care not where it comes from.
Italian oil is nice but can be too pricey.
South African local olive oil eg Morgenster is more expensive than Greek or Spanish imported to South Africa and all which is a pity. But there's no logic to imports vs. Local- San Benedetto still water from Italy is cheaper in South Africa than any local bottled brand.

I use HEB brand extra virgin olive oil except for where using canola oil would be a more intuitive choice, so I too am not an oil snob and don't know/care what origin the olives are that made the oil.

I guess if I was going to use olive oil for something other than frying, then I might consider purchasing something more pricey/elegant, but it would probably amount to the smallest quantity I could get away with.

Best regards,

William R. Sanders
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Starwood Hotels & Resorts Worldwide

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Watch the Zingerman's monthly flyers too. Every so often they have tastings. A few years ago they also published a small but quite informative guide to the different types of olive oil.

I like garlic olive oil for my pasta. I really heart lots and lots and LOTS of garlic in my pasta so the garlic olive oil is just dandy. For everything else regular olive oil does the job.

Funny, there's a winery on the Silverado trail that when you ask to have a taste of their oil, they pour it into a glass just like they just poured your wine.

And you never give them any back :D

I prefer local ones when I go to California, stuff I can taste there to see how it is. The more grass and pepper flavors, the more I like it.

Of course, if we are in Italy and one of the wife's relatives happens to offer us some of the stuff from their property to take back, well that's worth trying to sneak through:p

If we do have to buy in a store between trips, it's usually either Italian or Greek.

We've got some great Italian restaurants here in Providence. One of the restaurants offers an olive oil tasting. Make sure you keep the oil in a cool place so it doesn't over heat and turn bitter.

Greek all the way. Extra Vrigin Kalamata to be specific. I love the richer flavor.

When cooking with it, it doesn't really matter which we have. We do usually go for extra virgin as we're happy with the strong taste (even for fried eggs) and it depends on what deals are available. For standard extra-virgin oils, more-expensive doesn't equate to better - occasionally a supermarket has a 2-4-1 deal and we stock up, or a local Greek or Turkish shop will have some nice ones on offer, even the Lidl (discount supermarket) has well priced good oil.

We only get snobby on the oil we eat cold - salads, dipped in bread, vegetable marinades for antipesto etc...

I grew up eating a lot of local agricultural produce from Spain and have had a hand in harvesting and pressing oil (both in Spain and in Italy).

Good oils, from Spain, Italy, Greece, Turkey, Moroccan, Australia etc... will vary. They vary considerably depending on the 'farm' and the pressing process used. If it's done with love and care and the olives are good quality, it doesn't really matter to me where they come from (although it is natural that I'll sway towards Spain).

Most important thing is the date of a good oil. The newer, the better. Oil in no way improves with age. I'd advise always to check the dates on the bottle. Oils should get thicker in cool weather, and a bit of sediment is usually a good thing.

An OK oil can be pepped up by popping a dried chilli into a bottle and leaving it to marinade for a while. I think some less honest oil producers do this to some of their oils to give it some of the 'pepperiness' that is currently in demand. The effect can be subtle and not taste obviously of chilli. But, depending on your tastes, even a really good oil can be given an extra edge this way.

The Moroccans like to very gently cook chillis in olive oil and serve it with bread and a little salt. This can be quite sensational.

I doubt I'll even get to taste even a fraction of what is available in my life time though. Same with olives themselves. There must be thousands of ways of preparing them, there was a time when every household in Spain would have had their own method, my grandad's were amazing and his son still makes his own with self-gathered mountain herbs. As a cottage industry, it's not as common as it once was, but a significant amount of Spaniards still have their own personal recipes and supplies.

For me, it's Greek extra virgin.

I buy it by the case in 3L cans from http://www.tassos.com - although they just raised the price. :( I use it for everything - I couldn't live without it!

Good info here! The date is very helpful as a means of minimising the risk of buying stale oil.

FYI I found some info on olive oil in Spain here and a recent listing of good and bad oils tested this year in Australia (greek low-cost oil a surpise winner) - note the last line about production date!

I just stick with Extra Virgin Spanish Olive Oil for my salads and frying. You really cannot go wrong with it. Spanish olive oil is a bargain because it is not as "famous" as Italian olive oil. But for my other recipes I really do prefer the Italian olive oil.

And yet I'd bet good money that a significant portion of the Italian oil you've had was made with Spanish olives.

Which is a fascinating story in itself! Just look it up in Wikipedia. :)

No preference, I just know that olive oil is healthier than any other oil and I pick up whatever is on sale and use it exclusively for any and all cooking- tastes the same to me as canola/vegetable/etc... I have a few flavored ones (like garlic infused) for certain recipes, but I'm not much of an olive oil snob at all.

I have two favorites, one Italian (Lucini Extra Virgin) and one Spanish (Goya Extra Virgin). The Goya is quite cheap and very good. The Lucini has a distinctive flavor that I love. About 90% of my oil use is with one of these two, the rest is canola (baking, other times when I don't want the olive oil taste).

Last night I checked for any dates on the current and next 4L cans at home.

The Greek one ('Altis' extra virgin from Elais) has a 'best before' date on the can but the Spanish one (Carbonell extra virgin) does not!

The latter was on a supposedly 50% off sale so I bought on that basis and the packaging looks extremely new, so I hope the oil is as fresh as the shiny new packaging.

Like Brosnan and most of you, I use it for everything as I couldn't be bothered having several cluttering up the place. ;)

You might be intrested in knowing how olive oil is 'tasted' for flavour and quality. Here's a roughly translated section from this website
http://revista.consumer.es/discapaci...dad/analisis1/

"Para la prueba de cata oficial, se utiliza una muestra de aceite de 15 mililitros, en una copa especial, normalizada a tal efecto. La denominada "copa para cata de aceites", es un recipiente mitad copa mitad taza, de cristal y provisto de una tapa. El color debe ser azul o ámbar para evitar que el catador se vea influido por los tonos verdes relacionados con la acidez. La muestra del aceite a catar se mantiene en la copa a una temperatura aproximada de 28ºC. Esta temperatura se ha elegido por ser en la que se observan con más facilidad las diferencias organolépticas. Además, a esta temperatura se produce la volatilidad de los compuestos que componen el aroma del aceite. El catador toma la copa, cubierta por un vidrio, la inclina y en esa posición le da un giro total a la copa, a fin de mojar lo más posible la superficie interior. Hecha esta operación, separa el vidrio de reloj y procede a oler la muestra, haciendo inspiraciones suaves, lentas e intensas, hasta formarse un criterio sobre el aceite que debe juzgar. El periodo de olfacción no sobrepasará los 30 segundos. Si en ese periodo no ha llegado a ninguna conclusión, debe tomarse un descanso antes de un nuevo intento. Una vez realizado el ensayo olfativo, se procede a enjuiciar el flavor (sensación conjunta olfato-gustativa-táctil), para lo que se tomara un pequeño sorbo de unos 3ml aproximadamente. Es muy importante distribuir el aceite por toda la cavidad bucal, desde la parte anterior de la boca y la lengua, por los laterales y la parte posterior, hasta los pilares del paladar, ya que, como se sabe, la percepción de los cuatro sabores fundamentales, dulce, salado, ácido, amargo, se hace con distinta intensidad según las zonas de la lengua y el paladar. La sensación táctil debe tomarse también en consideración, así, la fluidez, pastosidad y picor o escozor deben ser anotados cuando se detecten, y si la prueba así lo requiere cuantificar su intensidad.

Con todas las sensaciones percibidas por el catador, con respecto a los atributos e intensidad de las sensaciones, se rellena una ficha. En la parte izquierda se incluyen algunas de las percepciones sensoriales más características y se puntúa su intensidad, en una escala que va del 0 al 5. El 0 indicaría ausencia del atributo, 1 casi imperceptible y el 5, la intensidad máxima. Después se otorga una puntuación conjunta teniendo en cuenta todas las calificaciones anteriores, que va del 1 "pésimo", al 9 "excepcional". Esta puntuación debe ser consecuente con las virtudes y defectos encontrados en el aceite, anotados en la parte izquierda de la ficha.

La clasificación de los aceites se basará fundamentalmente en la presencia de virtudes, y en la ausencia o presencia de flavores defectuosos así como en la mayor o menor gravedad o intensidad de estos; sin embargo, como la escala de valoración es de 9 puntos, deben considerarse algunos matices y aspectos que contribuyan de forma definitiva a decidir la puntuación total de calidad. El jefe del panel determinara la puntuación del aceite a partir de las puntuaciones medias de los catadores."

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Basically it says that a standardised receptacle is used and 15mls of oil at 28 degrees Centigrade is tested. The receptacle is made of amber or blue glass and has a lid - the colour is to prevent any green relating to acidity influencing the taster.

The taster takes the receptacle (with the oil inside and the lid on), tilts it and in this position rotates it so that the inside is moistened as much as possible. Once this is done, the lid is lifted and the taster inhales (through the nose) softly, slowly and intensely until a critical judgement is reached. Inhalation should not last longer than 30 seconds, if an opinion has not been reached the taster should take a break before making another attempt. Once done the real test begins. The taster imbibes 3mls of oil and coats the whole of the inside of the mouth with it, this is important to allow evaluation of the oil's sweet, salty sour and bitter tastes. Tactile qualities are also evaluated, fluidity, 'viscosity' and 'prickling'/'heat' or burning should also be noted if detected and their intensities recorded.

All the tactile sensations that are experienced need to be noted down on a scale of 0 to 5 where 0 is absent and 5 is the most intense. These scores are presented with the previously described qualities which are score on a 1 (bad) to 9 (exceptional) basis and the final scores should take into account the tactile deficiencies (the 0 to 5 scores).

Yada yada yada - oil is judged on scale of 1 to 9 by panel of tasters and the median is used.

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So the results of a selection of everyday Spanish oil by an official panel of graders were

ELOSUA - 7.1 - Extra Virgin
CARBONELL - 7 - Extra Virgin
LA ESPAÑOLA - 5.8 - Virgin
YBARRA - 6.9 - Extra Virgin
OLIDOR OLIVAL - 8 - Extra Virgin
KOIPE - 6.4 - Virgin
CORDOBA - 6 - Virgin
LA MASIA - 7 - Extra Virgin

Although Olidor Olival was (at the time) the most expensive and did come out as being the best, Ybarra (at 6.9) and La Masia (at 7) were amongst the cheapest.


Just for comparison, consumers, using less stringent and methodical means, gave the same oils these scores:

ELOSUA - 6.5
CARBONELL - 6
LA ESPAÑOLA - 7
YBARRA - 7
OLIDOR OLIVAL - 7
KOIPE - 5.5
CORDOBA - 6.5
LA MASIA - 7

(I usually avoid the Koipe brand too and my gran has always used Ybarra - which is excellent)

But then Morgenster is not just some oil.... to me it is the absolute best I have had and you may not compare it to standard supermarket brands.

I used to work for a Spanish company producing fancy gourmet EVOO and I assure you Morgenster is worth the money but obviously for special occasions only.

Do also note that the variety of olives used, the blend, the ripeness all have an influence on flavour.

I went to school in Ann Arbor, so discovered high-quality olive oil out from Zingerman's.

I have two favorites, one is French and the other Italian.

Interesting in the OP the comment about oils being marketed like wines. That's true, but I also think it's ridiculous. So many people swearing they'll only use oil from one country or region, and statements like "extra virgin or nothing" just prove the marketing is working its magic.

Here's an idea: how about choosing an oil based on how it tastes? And smells? And works in your recipes? Quality ought to matter more than the
darling label on the undoubtedly fancy designer bottle.

Living in a country where the stuff is produced in huge quantities, and where it's an integral part of the diet gives me an opportunity to try and compare a lot more than I could before. They sell plenty of the prissy stuff here (especially at the airport!) but the one we go back to every day, the one with the best, slightly piquant flavor and most exquisite texture, for me, is this stuff, at around 3€ a liter for a plastic jug in any supermarket.

We still try others from time to time, but I have two or three nearly-full expensive bottles in the kitchen that we reach over to get to the good stuff.

Naughty linky!

What is it, what is it???

How long does it take for you to go through a 4L can?

Just asking in case a 2-3 month period from opening would have meant the oil has oxidised, gone stale or whatever. I'd rather use a recyclable steel container rather than four or eight plastic bottles, which most likely would go to landfill if not recycled by our council's recycling contractor.

If locally-made oil was available at a competitive price and in a 4L can I'd buy it. ^

It's been a while since I've bought oil in receptacles that large - in the UK, it's rarely the large cans that are discounted. But we tend to consume about 2 litres a month (certainly in the summer - perhaps a bit less in the winter).

As you're using Carbonell, I really wouldn't worry about it, especially not for cooking. As long as you keep it somewhere dark (and it's in a can, so perfect!) it takes much longer than a couple of months for opened oil to go noticeably rancid by even the slightest amount.

If the oil has been kicking around for a couple of years in some hot warehouse before you got a chance to buy it, that will affect the taste more than having it open for four months or so. If it was fresh to start with and it's kept somewhere dark and not too warm, 4 months, even 6 months should be fine.

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I just looked around to see if I could find something to back up my experience and intuition and found this:

http://news.curiouscook.com/2007/01/olive-oil-cold.html

Oops, none of the supermarket links seem to work.

It's from these guys http://www.coosur.es/2index.html

Just the plain old Oli d'Oliva, sabor intens (it looks like the labels are in Spanish on the web site).

It's nice to see them adapting their labels to the local markets.

Thanks for the tip! I'll pick some up on my next visit (end of February) - just realised it's made from the 'picual' olive which the Scientist linked to in my last post said keeps its anti-oxidant properties for longer.

The hands down best oil I've ever had was brought to me in Plastic drink bottle as a gift from someone with family in Molinicos - a small village in the Albacete region (bordering Murcia). Not one drop of that even went close to a frying pan - just couldn't make it last long enough, I even cut the bottle open so I could wipe bread in there and mop up the last few milligrams. Oh, that was a sad day...

The best olive oils I've had anywhere are the local ones on Crete, which you get in bulk in the stores or in carafes on taverna tables. The best of these are off the scale. I poured some once from a carafe on a taverna table in Heraklio onto a piece of rustic bread, and it was not only the best olive oil I've ever tasted, it was one of the best things I've ever tasted.

In North America the best overall I've found, and the best value, are Turkish, but they're a little hard to find. Greek ones, more readily available, are almost as good.

Italian olive oils have a bad reputation for being adulterated or not living up to the specifications on the bottle.

Occasionally I've found imported French olive oils which are excellent but hard to find and extremely expensive.

I've never had a California olive oil that impressed me much, including the fancy expensive ones in artistic bottles.

Alan,

Considering I put some of those fancy bottles in BCN and MAD I do not know if to feel offended.... but you are quite right, the prices are not always justified.

I would however recommend everybody to buy Extra Virgin. That by itself does not have to be expensive and the flavour is clearly better.

As for the varietals etc. This will depend on personal taste but just to keep it spanish varieties there is a clear difference between picual, cornicabra, hojiblanca and arbequina to name a few. I am particular fond of some of the oil made by the cooperatives in Priorat which are very cheap too.

Just discovered a very yummy olive oil in New Zealand! Bought out all of the lemon infused oil at the small market in Hawke's Bay. Stewart's is the name I believe. The owner/maker told me he just signed a contract to start having his plain olive oil sold in Whole Foods stores starting in February. I brought a few bottles back and gave one to my boss who loved it as a dressing and with bread dipping.

What alanw was saying is proved by this evidence:
When it comes to personal preference, the oil's label or price is not always the best indicator. In the example I've shown, many Spaniards were perfectly satisfied with 'LA ESPAÑOLA' Virgin Olive Oil and ranked it just as highly as a 'technically superior' Extra Virgin Oil (OLIDOR OLIVAL),

If an oil is 'Extra Virgin', this is evidently a good sign of the oil's quality, but it's perfectly feasible that someone may prefer the flavour of a 'Virgin' Olive Oil better.

Extra virgin, usually Italian.

Greek all the way... I used to get it from Greece, but since the
liquid rules.. I'll have to rely on the ones from the local
grocery stores... so far I like the Extra Virgin. I still have
some stash that I can use for a while.

Recently I got one thats made from sort of green olives.
(Greek) I still have to open that up though. It came highly recommended.

I only use one: Greek Extra Virgin Kalamata Olive Oil made by Olga Georgatsou. Available here: http://www.greekolivewarehouse.com/exviroloilol.html

Light, not overpowering, and can be used in a wide variety of dishes.

For those of you that may find yourselves in Sonoma Valley, CA thru February, this may be interesting: The Sonoma Valley Olive Festival. It apparently has a strong emphasis on olive oil.

Here's the link: http://www.sonomavalley.com/OliveFestival/default.asp

I've never been. In fact, I just saw a reference to this in the Sacramento Bee this Sunday but it sounds yummy!

I love Olive Oyl... but then so does Popeye and there's no way I'm gonna mess with some girl whose feller has forearms THAT size !

However.nothing beats a dish of good olive oil with balsamic vinegar and some fresh crusty bread straight from the oven ...together with some black olive paste,a simple Greek salad, some local Greek calamari and an ice-cold bottle of Boutari sheltering from the midday sun in the shade of a hilltop taverna on a Greek island with no-one but my thoughts and the owner and his dog.

Spring 2007 and probably one of the greatest meals of my life.

I love the Greeks.... and I love their olive oil.