What strikes me as interesting is that your friends chastised you for leaving a generous tip yet they have had no complaints and have allowed you to "subsidize" their meals by splitting checks all weekend. So... maybe they are the ones with the guilty consciences - when they saw you "subsidizing" the waitress perhaps it hit too close to home. Buying you a coke is the least they should have been doing, IMHO.

Depending on how friendly the service anywhere from $6-10 if it was busy $15

There really is no excuse for bad tipping.

Being nice to a waitress and then cutting corners when tipping is inexcusable. These are people...

When good service warrants a good tip, I leave accordingly. Up to 20% is not out of the question. For drinks I usually leave $2-$3 even for a beer.

While I agree with the tip approach, I do disagree with this statement. A bar is made for drinking, and eating is an accessory activity. At a table, it's the other way around. So no, if the bar had been available, I would not have agreed with the large tip for taking up space.

Cheers,

GenevaFlyer

And what would be the name and address of that hometown restaurant

well.
 

again, the US way of tipping everything and everyone is just the wrong approach.

pay your service guys a minimum amount per hour so they can survive without
having to ask for tips .

ITS the system which is wrong and not the attitude of the NON-US citizens.

US posters here always pull the EL-Cheapo card, but why should we non-US citizens pay for your NON-Existend Social System ???

anyway, i would not have blocked a table only for drinks.
i would have ordered a salad , and something to eat.

about the tip, even for me 1USD and blocking the table sounds a bit cheap.

4 pax, 25USD bill, i would have left 10USD total in tips.

i wouldnt mind 40% tip in a situation like this, but i think that 10-15% tip is ok if you have a 500 USD bill in a restaurant.
well my friends in the US always tip 25% ,,, but i think thats a bit too much usually..

dp

It's at least refreshing to hear a non-US citizen endorsing the idea that it's not necessary to conform to the norms of the country one is visiting - that's a common criticism of American tourists.

We've spent a considerable amount of time in the UK, several European countries, and Australia over the past few years, and dined out a few hundred times in total. To generalize perhaps to an absurd degree, I suggest that visitors from those countries can add a modest 15% to the amount of their U.S. restaurant check/bill and still get as good a deal as they would dining at home, amending the fairly common waitstaff perception of the "ugly foreigner" while actually paying for the service rendered.

Just a thought... :)

Well this is an interesting thread. Here is my 2 cents from someone in the industry. I would say they are cheap and the part about how the server appreciates them being nice versus leaving a big tip that is laughable. No server will ever remember a nice guy but a fat tipper will never be forgotten. I see it all the time and it works anywhere in the world. The ten dollars is fair I would have left twenty but thats me. The four dollars is an insult. Since I figure no one was going to expense this I would not expect anything more. I am sure they only spend big when it is on the company expense report.

The server should have worked harder to show you the door much sooner. Allowing you to hang out in her station during the whole lunch hour having a round of drinks is her faullt. I wouldn't worry to much about it because if she did not try to turn the table sooner shame on her for letting you camp out in her station.

well
 

of course each country has its own norms and habbits etc. but do we always have to agree with the norm? ( i mean if something is obviously wrong, and anybody except the US citiziens disagre with this? i mean anybody from asia or eurpoe i have met complain about the rudeness of the employees about tips)

the advice of adding 15% tip should work well in the US.
i would add a bit more than that on smaller amounts i.e <50USD you could add a bit more than the 15%.

anyway DO I LIKE the SUPER Capitalizm in the US ?*?? NO, i dont like it.

I dont like the demanding taxi driver who tried to deny to give my friend his baggage after he only did tip 3USD on a 10USD taxi ride. (he wanted 5usd instead. my friend was talking and talking so i went back and asked very" friendly" if there is a problem, after i heard him complaining that he wanted 5USD i asked him what has he done to earn an extra 2 USD tip on top of the 3USD, his answer was he turned the radio on ... yes we requested that...
but well i looked at him asked him if he really want to pull this crap and he gave us the bags, but my friend who gave already 20% tip , was really annoyed.)

i mean what is that attitude anyway, being super-unfriendly the whole ride, and than demanding a 5USD tip on a 10USD ride...

i say there is something wrong with the service attitude of the US service industry.

-> this is caused through the brutal and un-human conditions workers in the US have to face, even in china you have better work conditions these days :p(ok not really )

even it is the NORM to tip in the US , a tip is something which has to be earned and which should not be taken for granted.


anyway my personal opinion about tipping is, that tipping more than 15% is idiotic, and you should give the money instead to charities or do other good things which are going to help people who are really in trouble.

i dont think that the usual worker in the us couldnt survive if he got only 10% of a bill in the US. (and i have met some people in the service industry and they earn 2000USD + only through tips per month (ok, girls , very hot. very good tips , lax area )

but if you sent the money to charities or other good causes you might save a persons life.

dp

Another tipping thread.

My vote on this one is: $10 was about right.

You are wont to make generalizations IMHO. Many visitors to the U.S. comment on the friendliness (even to excess) of the inhabitants and it's unfortunate your own experiences have been so different. I have also visited a number of countries having forms of government with which I profoundly disagree, but I've never thought to take it out on the citizens.

For example, on our first visit to China, a waitress in Beijing ran after me out of the restaurant and returned with a smile the tiny amount of money I had left on the table (she had been exceptionally kind). I learned a lesson from that and henceforth continued to tip guides but not restaurant servers.

I would agree that a 10% tip will get you by in most places, but it would be nice if you'd mention to the server that you're visiting from ____________ so he or she won't take it as a personal insult. ;)

I tip based on the service I receive. That means:

1. I don't tip anything for the empty chairs at my table.

2. I don't tip based on the most expensive meal on the menu even though I ordered a sandwich.

3. I don't tip on the dessert I didn't order or the cigar and cognac I didn't order as an alternative to dessert.

If I consumed a minimum of my servers time, talent and attention, I expect him or her to devote the time saved to his/her larger tables where the tip potential is greater. And oh yeah,

4. My tip is never based on how sorry I feel for the server. But I might give her more if she's young cute and flirty. Fact of life. Accept it.

I've worked for tips. Some days you work your ... off and get nada. Some other days a bluebird lands on your shoulder and tucks a c-note in your pocket. Over time it evens out. And in the end, you're dead anyway.

Usually twenty percent. I don't like to disappoint people.

I think you did the right thing, Elke, and I'm sure it was appreciated by the server. Sometimes when in MIA shopping mall, I'll tip a cab driver $5 for a $3.50 ride (which would otherwise be a five minute deadly walk over busy lanes to get to my hotel, plus my shopping is heavy). He's lost his slot in the rank for a decent fare; I try to make up for it. Guilt? No ~ it's called mutual appreciation.

Pocketing the $4 and leaving the $10 probably makes the most sense, but I'm not sure if I would have thought of it at the time if I were in your shoes. $4 is definitely cheaping out. You were definitely generous and more than fair to the waitress considering the circumstances. And can I just add my personal mini-rant about splitting tabs with couples when you're the single one? That gets old quickly.

Ok ... what am I missing? :confused:

$4 tip for a $25 check is 16%. I thought the "recommended" number was atleast 15%, so this seems right, no?

malgudi ~ I think you're missing the context :D

Ok - lets get something clear:

Most people waiting tables are paid $2.13 per hour.

This is not the norm almost anywhere else in the world. Waitstaff depend on tips, and like it or not, "being nice to them" does not pay their bills. They don't make $7-15 per hour with some tips to boot.

So PLEASE use this piece of information with ANYONE who doesn't see the value in tipping any more than in the 5% range, or wants to offset their tip by being extra-nice.

<rant OFF>

And just to clarify: I am in no way advocating that tips be mandatory, or for someone to feel like they "have" to tip.

Just offering a refute to those that claim a 5-10% tip is sufficient under normal circumstances.

you would leave a $20 tip on a $25 tab???????

You are right and your friends were wrong. To your friends: Guess what. Being nice is not a substitute for paying someone fairly. You are required to tip properly AND be nice.

Considering the unusual circumstances -- taking a lunch spot at a prime time for the server to earn -- you did the right thing to bump up the tip over the suggested 15 or 20 % standard amount. I do the same thing. With drinks, I may even pay as each round comes out, making sure to include a healthy tip right away, so the server will know that they're taken care of. But the way you did it is fine.

Did the "people waiting on the tables" know this when they started waiting on the tables or was this a total surprise to them.Also I heard people waiting on the tables" can learn 90% of their job function in 8 hours or less. Is this true? FWIW I am always nice to people waiting on the tables", but unfortunately the people waiting on the tables" are not always nice to the customers. BTW are you one of the people waiting on the tables"?

MisterNice

Don't go to the Bahamas MisterNice ~ 15% is automatically added to everything in restos & bars, often resulting in no service.......

And I don't know if you'd rather avoid the restaurants in France with service compris (mandatory tip included) or those where it's non compris. ;)

Speaking of tipping, and how the U.S. is supposedly out of step with most of the rest of the world because the servers rely on tips, is this information incorrect or is it fact that the main difference between the U.S. (along with Canada) and all of these other countries is that the tip is mandatory and included in the bill in the latter?

In the same vein, Holland America Cruise Lines used to advertise that tipping was "not mandatory." After Carnival bought them, tipping is included automatically. That's not to say that there's no tipping - it's compris. @:-)

Urr....your value judgements aside, Americans have to pay non-refundable VAT on resto bills in Europe as well as "service fees", which is essentially the same as tips. At least a tip is discretionary in the U.S. and not a compulsory fee imposed to support the European social system that provides the American zero benefit. And IME, you still customarily have to leave a 5-10% tip on top of that in Europe anyway.

I would also point out that tipping was a custom exported from Europe to America.

Glass houses....

Maybe we Americans should demand that the service charge be removed from European restaurant bills so that we can apply our own norms. After all, do we always have to agree with the norm? ;)

A Swede pays VAT in England and vice versa ~ they both have social systems to protect & enhance the quality of life of their citizens ~ it doesn't really matter where you come from. The American benefits by being able to visit ;)

And no ~ you do not have to leave additional money for a tip in Sweden, or for that matter in France say, but most do (if only by 10-20 kronor or a few Euros), if the service has been good. Americans often take that a step further by leaving a lot more. That's their choice, so no whinging allowed :cool:

It's not the Americans whinging, unless you want to count a little gentle sarcasm to make the point. :cool:

I agree with the fact that waitstaff knows the lousy pay when they take the job. And I also agree with the premise that the job may not require an advanced education or much technical training.

Having said that, aren't you the least bit empathetic towards someone who is working a low paying job, waiting on strangers no less...doing a job that is absolutely vital to society? I gotta feel for the person who is doing the best they can do by waiting tables. The job isn't easy. But they are working, and maybe this is the most skilled labor they qualify for.

Guess what??? If you want a waitstaff made of folks with advanced college degrees, you are going to pay for it in inflated food prices.

As long as the concept of 'being waited on' exists, you will always have a need for waiters. For any of us who feel grateful to NOT have to wait tables for a living, or grateful to not have any other crappy job, the idea of throwing a few extra bucks on the table for a job well done (that is, if the job was done well) for someone who would be very grateful to receive such money, seems like a very simple way to 'pay it forward'.

And no, I've never been a waitress. But I am a good tipper.

Yawning after two months on FT? You bore easily.

:rolleyes:

LOL flyerwife! Two months is a bit short unless you're a cat. :)

Fredd ~ I gotcha (did getcha ;)

:D

:)

A 16% tip sounds generous to me. And I've lived in Chicago for the last two years, which is apparently where the restaurant/bar was located.

Having put myself through school in waiter/bartender occupations (for too may years), I have seen a myriad of tipping situations...from ZERO where I got "slammed" and was "in the weeds" and therefore did not give good service. These situations happen and it is just part of the job. To others, where I received 200% of the total tab (not usual I admit).

In the OP's situation, I don't think the waitress would have given a second though to whether she received $4, $10, or a $14 tip. She would have thrown it in her pocket (or tip jar) and went on with serving her other tables. As a waiter I did not sit and think about every tip I got and calculated the percentages. I knew if it was around 15% that was fine by me and I went on w/ my shift.

I also don't think that you "occupying" a 4-top in the restaurant/lounge when there was no other choice justifies adding another $10 to the tip as a gesture of saying "sorry" for occupying the table during lunch. Doesn't make sense....

What if I have a 4-top for lunch and they all order the soup of the day and that's all! Bill is low, so what? Do they add something more on (other than the usual 15%) because they feel bad for the waiter/waitress that they didnt order the steak sandwiches at a higher price?

just my 2 pennies.

Guilt-ridden tipping
 

Speaking of feeling bad for the waitress since you took up two tables and only bought drinks, did you think about the owner of the establishment? I think you need to send $100 to make up for the food you should have bought. I'm sure that the company would appreciate it.

I see these type of guilt threads all the time, about the maid, the valet, the servers, skycaps, etc. People denounce their cheap friends, and at the same time, overtip, which in my eyes is just as bad. In fact, $4 on a $25 bill is 16% tip. It's certainly not your fault that the place was busy and you couldn't get a seat at the bar.

I have gone out with people who left $1 for a $40 bill, which wasn't appropriate. I added to the tip, and made it fair.

Servers know what their pay is. They do get tips, and I'd guess than a good server in a good restaurant makes $12-$20 an hour. In fact, I go to some mid level chains (PF Changs, etc) where servers make $200-$250 in tips for a 5 hour shift.

I had a friend in high school who worked at a Baskin Robins who made server wages, at that time, since they might get tips. Now, that was certainly a rip off.

I agree that tipping extra is just compensation for hogging the table. Having been in the service industry, one has a better appreciation how hard the service staff works to get their tips.

To the original questions:
What would you do in this situation?
Drop the ten and pick up the $4 because I'd feel I was hogging the table in a busy restaurant. (And I'd feel the same if one was hogging a table in a busy restaurant milling about after a meal.)

What is normal, correct, whatever you want to call it? Is $4 acceptable?
Anything is correct and yes, $4 is acceptable. I go by the philosophy that there really aren't any rules to tipping, just guidelines.

Background: Yes, I did serve for a while but years ago.

As far as that goes, in probably 90% of cases, one can learn 90% of what
one needs to know for most white-collar jobs in 8 hours or less.

I have tried to tip in Sydney and been told that it is considered rude! That was a few years back though and I have noticed living here the trend seems to be changing although a tip is not expected.