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-   -   Consolidated "Martini" thread (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/diningbuzz/637473-consolidated-martini-thread.html)

4444 Jul 27, 2009 4:32 pm


Originally Posted by Baritone73 (Post 12125939)
There is a wide variety of opinions on the proper amount of vermouth to put in a martini. I believe the original ratio of gin to vermouth was something approaching 1:1, but the trend in recent years has been towards smaller amounts of vermouth, with some people (myself included) preferring a drink that might better be described as "cold gin in a glass". With an olive.

I've seen more than one bartender rinse the inside of a martini glass with vermouth, dump it out, then shake the gin with ice and pour it into the glass. I tend to favor this technique.

It's probably best to give the bartender some direction as to the amount of vermouth you want, since there seems to be no real standard.

what you described is the extra dry martini. also my choice

CMK10 Jul 28, 2009 3:45 pm

My Father considers himself a martini expert and he always orders his "extraORDINARIALLY dry" (with that emphasis) and swears by them. I'll stick to my scotch.

TMOliver Jul 31, 2009 10:35 am


Originally Posted by jehflyer (Post 12124836)
I have ordered (gin) martinis at a number of bars-including Cruise Bar suppposedly Denver's top bar per Denver Magazine-each time I had to ask for some vermouth.
What is going on and since when has this been happening?
After all a martini by definition is gin+vermouth

With apologies to the Vodkatians whose choice of spirits has prevailed upon world-wide practice to include vodka-based blends as "Martinis"....

By its very name, a Martini requires some Vermouth (declining in proportion over the decades, and back in the 50s, the "Gibson" at 5/1 was considered "Very Dry"). Traditional purists might even demand that the cocktail live up to its name, and only use "Martini & Rossi" Vermouth, but flavor issues saw great rise in the popularity of "Noilly Pratt", French Vermouth, or even "Lillet", which is not really a Vermouth at all.

When it first became popular, traditionally trained barmen (There were no females behind bars!) turned up their collective noses at the use of Tanqueray in a Martini, to heavily floral and fruity for a "real" drink. In NYC's better bars, Gordon's gin was the over-whelming barmans' pour, just as "White Label" (Dewar's) was the Scotch of common consumption of political and financial classes.

The best I recall over many decades....My world traveler uncle who kept the gin and the stemmed glassware in the freezer, and peeled the zest (outer skin, minimal bitter white pith) from lemons and preserved the strips in a jar of Vermouth. Whip out bottle, glasses and pour, then drop a "marinated" strip of lemon peel atop the gin, eliminating the hazards of mixology and dilution by melting ice.

jbatl Jul 31, 2009 10:56 am


Originally Posted by CMK10 (Post 12137509)
My Father considers himself a martini expert and he always orders his "extraORDINARIALLY dry" (with that emphasis) and swears by them. I'll stick to my scotch.

I was an 'extra dry' guy for awhile. You may not believe this, but from time to time, I'd end up with a martini that reeked of vermouth. Then, I realized that maybe some dim-wit bartenders think 'extra dry' means 'more dry vermouth please.' This problem seems more acute outside the U.S., since the vermouth bottle tends to have the word DRY in big letters on the bottle.

So, I'm sitting in my favorite martini bar in Atlanta a few weeks ago and hear someone next to me order a martini with 'no vermouth.' I immediately adopted that strategy and have been very happy lately. I happen to think that many bartenders either don't wash out shakers well enough or shake all martinis in the same shaker. The residual vermouth in the shaker from the last guy's dry is plenty for me. And, if I end up with a heaping glass of gin and ice shards? Well, all the better.

As to OP's question, I think this trend may go hand in hand with the rise in popularity of the 'dirty' martini (IMO, because of the name rather than the taste). Plenty of times, I have to wave a barkeep off the olive juice even when I didn't ask for it 'dirty.'

Finally, since we're talking martinis, I'd be remiss if I didn't mention that my main ingredient of choice is Hendricks Gin. If you haven't tried it, I highly recommend.

rh314 Aug 2, 2009 12:18 am

Back when I used to drink martinis, I was of the opinion that if they poured the gin (no label loyalty here) while waving the stoppered bottle of vermouth above it, that was fine.

I liked the flavor of dirty martinis, until a friend pointed out that the bartender was probably using the brine in the garnish tray. Which was also okay, until we watched a sweaty-fingered patron wander over to the bar and grub out some olives from the garnish tray with his hands. No more of that for me.

EnvoyBoy Aug 4, 2009 9:29 pm

+1 for Hendricks but also Tanqueray 10.
And +1 for the guy whose uncle peeled the lemon.
Best martinis are in London, fyi.
And they should never be shaken; just stirred.

b1513 Aug 5, 2009 11:40 am


Originally Posted by N965VJ (Post 12130968)
Didn’t Winston Churchill once say that the perfect martini was drinking cold gin while looking at a bottle of vermouth?

I could agree with that. I tell them to put in the vermouth then dump it out. Add gin. Perfect!

ragde77 Aug 5, 2009 12:31 pm

I like my dry.martini dry... the less vermouth the better, but the essence must be there. =)

milepig Aug 5, 2009 12:45 pm

If you want a glass of gin you should order a glass of gin. A Martini, by definition, includes at least a drop of vermouth.

VivoPerLei Nov 26, 2012 6:59 am

Favorite martini
 
We had dry vodka martinis at our hotel bar in the Seychelles that were simply outstanding. So much variability in such a simple cocktail. We haven't had better anywhere, so want to open it up - if you have a favorite recipe, please post! I'm actually curious if anyone still drink these, or if it's popularity is fading, like my parents' favorite cocktails from the 40's.

gfunkdave Nov 26, 2012 7:31 am

A martini is gin and vermouth, shaken and served up with a twist or olives (though I had a waitress once tell me a martini did not include olives - now THAT'S a purist!). The exact right proportion of vermouth is critical. The modern attitude that one can get the vermouth by simply looking towards France completely misses the point.

Hemingway liked his martinis with a 15:1 gin:vermouth ratio. As late as the 1930s, a martini would have been 4:1, with a couple drops of orange bitters. I think somewhere around 7:1 is perfect...at that proportion, it becomes something more than just gin and vermouth.

A martini does not include vodka. And a martini is CERTAINLY not one of these sugar-laden promoters of tooth decay that is garishly colored and served in a cocktail glass. Gfunkdave has spoken.

:)

VivoPerLei Nov 26, 2012 7:44 am


Originally Posted by gfunkdave (Post 19746552)
A martini does not include vodka.

What can I say, it's kind of an East European thing - if we're out of vodka it's a bad day!

Given that, I'm going to guess you have a preferred brand of gin?

gfunkdave Nov 26, 2012 7:50 am


Originally Posted by lancebanyon (Post 19746592)
What can I say, it's kind of an East European thing - if we're out of vodka it's a bad day!

Given that, I'm going to guess you have a preferred brand of gin?

Heh, fair enough.

In martinis, I like Plymouth gin. The juniper doesn't overpower the taste like it does in other styles of gin. Hendricks is also not bad, if you're in the mood for cucumber.

In a gin and tonic, a London dry gin (Tanqueray, Bombay Sapphire, etc) is fine.

nux Nov 26, 2012 7:53 am


Originally Posted by gfunkdave (Post 19746552)
A martini is gin and vermouth, shaken and served up with a twist or olives

A true martini is stirred, not shaken.

meehgz Nov 26, 2012 8:49 am

Favorite martini
 
Not necessarily stirred as much as swirled - you don't want to bruise the alcohol of choice but still need to allow for a bit of friction. One key thing a lot of people seem to forget is to use frozen (as in, stored in a freezer, not the state of matter as it wouldn't freeze anyway as we all know :-) gin or vodka. As it's meant to be enjoyed over a longer period of time than a typical cocktail, you want your liquor of choice to stay as cold as possible for the length of time it takes you to drink it!


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