I'd never heard of Viajante before. But looked it up. It closed recently:

http://www.hardens.com/restaurant-ne...es-heads-west/

Perhaps you weren't the only person who felt that way about the portion size.

I think one reason it's hard (probably impossible) to get portion quantities right is we're all different. In terms of our sizes and our appetites. It obviously doesn't make sense most of the time to make dishes in various sizes (although it's sometimes done - especially at places like steakhouses). So the easiest way to give people different amounts of food - even within the context of a single tasting menu - is to allow people to select various numbers of courses. But some restaurants don't even allow that. And - when it comes to those that do allow it - it's usually the norm that everyone dining together has to order the same thing.

Note that my primary objection to this kind of thing is I get embarrassed sitting in a restaurant and leaving more than 3/4 of a lot of dishes untouched because I'm stuffed. My husband can help me out - but only to a point. I have to explain to usually more than one person that no - the food is fine - but I simply can't eat another bite. My secondary objection is I'm a big dessert fan - and don't like to get to the dessert course(s) without some remaining capacity to enjoy them.

My favorite restaurants today are those that still offer diners a variety. Usually a somewhat "a la carte" menu - with a choice of perhaps 2-3 options in each of perhaps 3-5 courses. Many restaurants like this will also offer at least 1 or 2 tasting menus as well. Per Se (and others) used to be this way. Le Bernardin (and others) still are.

WRT to your move to London - know you'll love it in terms of dining (and - since you've been living in Germany - you've probably dined there a whole lot more than I have). My most favorite meal in my whole life was a lunch at Gordon Ramsay RHR. Doubt it is or ever was the best restaurant in the world. But I had a 3 course lunch that had 3 fabulous renditions of some of my most favorite foods (Scottish langoustines - Bresse Pigeon - and chocolate among other ingredients in the dessert - which was a cylinder of various complementary ingredients of various textures - ranging from super light on top to light to medium to a little dense on the bottom). The meal was to die for (at least for me) - and so was the service (I've only had one maitre d' I remember as much as the one at RHR - and that was the maitre d' at Guy Savoy). You know you've had a memorable meal when you can remember every course 10+ years later :D.

In terms of dining in Germany - this most recent trip was our 3rd (our other 2 were ancient). And it was in the spring. Which is always a favorite travel dining season for us in northern climes. People in various northern climes go crazy in the spring for certain food things. In the UK - it can be something like fresh English peas. Just served in gastropubs in the pod as an app - they're better than any peas I've ever tasted. And - in Germany - it's spargel. A national obsession. I read a bit about spargel before our trip - and actually had spargel at just about all (maybe all) of our main meals in Germany. In places ranging from railroad dining cars (only mediocre spargel of the whole trip - stringy) to 3 star restaurants.

Best of luck with your move. Robyn

I don't believe in stuff like cultural relativism. That all cuisines are equal - that all dining philosophies are equal - etc. And - after my close to 70 years on this planet - I have some strongly held opinions and think I'm entitled to them. But they're honestly pretty limited. I don't believe in long tasting menu only restaurants. I don't believe in overly salted food. I don't believe in "super sized portions"/amounts of food. You'll generally find the first only at high end restaurants. But you can find the second and third at any level.

When it comes to eating certain kinds of foods - there are some things I can't tolerate/don't like at all. Like extremely spicy food. Slimy food either (more common in eastern than western cuisines). I'll chalk that up to what my palate is used to.

But some things are simply preferences. My husband prefers pork to lamb. I am exactly the other way around. My husband doesn't care for game or so-called "little/game birds". He would always take fish instead. My husband doesn't like blue cheeses. I love them. I wouldn't care to spend $300-500+ on a meal where the main meat course was pork - and my husband wouldn't care to spend the same amount on a meal where the main meat course was well hung quail (funny term :D).

I think you've been around enough to have developed some likes/dislikes of your own. Which may be different than mine. For example - in one message - you said you were surprised/disappointed that a particular restaurant (don't remember which one) *didn't* have a tasting menu. IMO - any high end restaurant worth its salt today ought to offer *you* the tasting menu you want - and offer a more "a la carte menu" to people like me. And - you seem to dislike more foods than I do (although I may prefer X to Y and love Z as opposed to either of them). Don't you think when you're going to a high end restaurant that costs a ton (or a half ton) - you should be able to avoid a beet salad and get a salad/soup that you would prefer a lot more?

FWIW - one of our more amazing meal experiences along these lines was the 100 euro lunch at Guy Savoy. No fixed menu at all. The maitre d' explored our personal preferences. And then we got a multi-course meal consisting of some "greatest hits" plus courses tailored to our personal preferences (game for me - fish for my husband). And then the most amazing dessert courses - complete with dessert trolley (have only run across dessert trolleys occasionally - and this was by far the best I've ever had).

You don't like beets - I don't think you should ever have to eat beets. And - if you want to experiment - do it at home - at maybe $5/experiment - not a course for $50+ (beets are super easy to cook at home). What are your favorite foods? The ones you most like to eat? What is your dream meal?

My husband says life is too short to drink light beer. I say life is too short to eat things you don't enjoy. Robyn

Don't think so.

Because I am older - I have dined at fine dining restaurants where the main goal was pleasing customers - and not stroking the celebrity chef's ego (even though he's probably not in the kitchen these days for the most part). At least up to a point.

Also - the goal of a lot of diners these days is to put notches on their belts - as opposed to having excellent or great meals. Why on earth should people care about how many restaurants they've dined at on the San Pellegrino list - as opposed to simply having excellent or great meals? Are too many diners today "sheeple"?

I'll give you a silly example. When we went to Freres Troisgros (long long time ago) - we not only mis-estimated the driving time from here to there - we also ran into a horrible ran storm on the way. We arrived 30 minutes before our dining reservation. Quick shower - got dressed - and I was totally frazzled. In the ante-room where one orders - I ordered a gin & tonic. And instead of telling me - madame - we do not make gin & tonics (they're basically not a known apertif in France) - our servers huddled together and produced a very excellent approximation. I swear if I had ordered a burger well done - they would have done that too (although what would be the point at that restaurant ;)). Robyn

"tasting menus are the refuge" addresses bad chefs.
it does not address tasting menus themselves.
no one disagrees that there are bad restaurants.

true high-end tasting menus involve throwing food away if it sits too long.
and throwing away any supplies they receive that are not good enough.

except ones you can customize. if i read your posts correctly.

Not IMO. A restaurant that only has a single tasting menu will know exactly how much food it needs in advance. Especially since many these days require both credit cards to make reservations and have 24 hour in advance cancellation policies.

Then - of course - there are restaurants now where it's like going to the theater. You pay X for your meal in advance. And - assuming you can't make it - you have to resell your "ticket" on the secondary market. Or you're SOL.

I don't believe in customizing for the most part (most chefs don't either). I'm not going to tell a great chef that I want his dish with less of this - or more of that - or none of some other things (unless he's doing something like seriously over salting his food - in which case I don't think he's a great chef). Or to substitute X for Y. All I want is a limited choice of dishes. So I can get the things I like/love. And - especially - a choice about quantities of food. At 5 feet - 125 pounds - close to 70 - no one will ever confuse me with Twiggy. But I can't eat half as much as a 6 foot 180 pound 35 year old guy. Robyn

OK perhaps we might get back onto the topic of "best restaurants in the world" and end the debate on what makes a great restaurant meal. If you don't approve of tasting menu only restaurants, might I suggest you not dine at them nor criticize them for their choice of offering. it's a big world out there, and every restaurant team has the right to present their offerings in whatever format they choose.

I'm concerned for the safety of several posters in this thread, what with the distance they might fall while trying to dismount.

;)

Robyn, I'm afraid your response just leaves me shaking my head. You've objected to a previous post indicating that fine cuisine is subjective. If you cannot accept that fairly obvious premise, then all else doesn't matter. Food is subjective, and you either accept that or go home. There are no absolutes.

You are a small person, so you don't like tasting menus since they so often over-stuff you. Fair enough. Now please stop deciding that fine restaurants should somehow cater to your appetite more than another's in order to better serve its patronage.

When I criticized Dinner by Heston Blumenthal, I did mention that they didn't even offer a tasting menu...but that would have been less of an issue had they suitably prepared the a la carte offerings we ordered--which they absolutely did not. Our meal was not good. Their service was poor, from the bar to the intro of their menu to the manner with which they handled our poorly cooked entrees ("we cook meat to a temperature and not a color or category" is not an explanation for an over-cooked or flavorless meat, no matter how you word or explain it). The lack of tasting menu was the last and least significant of many reasons for us to not like Dinner.

I don't believe that all cuisines are equivalent...but I also KNOW that not all people will agree on which cuisines are better. Cultural relativism is not the issue. It's pure subjective appeal, like was mentioned to you in previous posts and which you summarily dismissed. Liking cuisine or restaurants is subjective, and you seem unwilling to accept that anyone could find appealing that which you do not. You're just dead wrong.

OK - here's the list of the best restaurants in the Michelin universe (which I trust more than the Pellegrino universe). What do you think?

http://www.andyhayler.com/restaurant...ews=all&size=0

Robyn

One thing I can say to especially younger people here. If you like to travel - and like to dine - don't rely on any of these stupid lists or try to put notches in your belt. Search out new exciting chefs in new up and coming food areas. Explore new cuisines. We were in Houston a few months back - and it has a really new and interesting food scene (kind of like Charleston 5+ years ago). I'm sure there are "Houstons" in France and similar - but since I don't live in France - I don't know about them. Robyn

true high end restaurants do not allow food to sit - they throw it away.

the vast majority of restaurants (not true high end) do not care how long a dish sits if they serve all dishes at the same time.

that is what i meant.

http://www.departures.com/articles/a...nce-in-houston
http://houston.eater.com/archives/20...t-new-list.php
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...95609K20130607
http://www.npr.org/2013/06/30/196748...our-teeth-into

That list includes 1158 restaurants. I think if I made a list of my favorite 1000 restaurants, there still would be differences. Making a list bigger doesn't resolve the simple fact that different people prefer different things in fine dining (or anything else in life, for that matter).

I am still unclear as to why any one list bothers you so much. It's just a list. You don't have to agree with it. Anyone who really thinks that No. 3 on ANY restaurant list is inherently better than No. 14 or No. 29 or so on is not terribly bright IMO. I'm sorry now for being blunt, but that is what I believe.

I work in university admission guidance in the USA, and I help students from all over the world get accepted to universities (and colleges here in the USA) worldwide. There are so many college rankings out there that make people crazy in exactly the same was as restaurant rankings do herein. I reiterate that all rankings on subjective things are flawed because there most often is no way to truly rank things. Yet humans love to rank things, and so they do. Categories and broad generalities can be drawn from such lists/rankings, but no ranking could ever truly be factual. It's just not impossible for anything that is so subjective.

clarification of my prior post > sitting = under a heat lamp etc.

so much that its become big business.

Thought I linked it wrong. But I didn't. There are perhaps 1000+ restaurants on the website - but only 110 on this list (Michelin 3 stars). If for some reason my link doesn't work that way for you - use the 3 star Michelin filter (which is what I intended to link). FWIW - I like the website. Andy Hayler is extremely well-traveled. Pays for his own meals. And has an adventurous but discerning palate. And he's humble enough to say he - as someone from the UK - doesn't exactly understand 50 shades of sushi (although he tries to do his best).

In parts of the world where I trust Michelin - I like and use Michelin. This includes a lot of western Europe these days. But - even 20 years ago or so - I didn't trust Michelin in a lot of countries in western Europe. Because it always gave the highest ratings to restaurants that served (frequently incompetent) French food - no matter what country you were talking about.

In other parts of the world - Michelin can be useful - even if I don't trust the ratings all that much. For example - there are 100,000+ restaurants in Tokyo. Michelin (at all levels of ratings - including the bib gourmand IIRC) whittles things down to a more manageable few hundred places.

Our first trip to Japan was pre-Michelin. And - although we had some great food - we had some misses too. Planning everything took a huge amount of time. And we couldn't dine at some places we would have liked to dine at because - even though these places are famous in Japan - we never heard of them before we stepped foot in Japan (and they required bookings well in advance). Our first trip could be likened to getting into a car in France - driving around - and hoping to get into 3 star Michelin restaurants with 1-2 days notice. You'll get very good food in lots of places in France - but not in many of the best places at the last minute. Ditto in Japan.

I don't mind any outfit (or indeed any educated blog/blogger) that purports to rate restaurants (in terms of bad/good/better/best/etc.). Or - more particularly - meals that people have had at these restaurants. But ranking irks me (how do I rank great sushi in Tokyo as compared with great game in the UK - or even great fatty brisket in Texas for that matter? - except purely as a matter of personal preference). And if you think a ranking list is so dumb (I agree with that) - why did you start this thread using one as a frame of reference?

Perhaps if we start this thread all over again without anyone simply stating how many notches he/she has in terms of dining at places on any list - we can have a more interesting conversation. The point after all is telling other people where we've had meals we thought were ^^^ - whether or not they're on any (corporate) list.

FWIW - when I mentioned bloggers - I thought of another pet peeve of mine. Restaurants that treat different people differently. Now I can understand a restaurant treating a regular customer differently than someone who will only visit once. But I don't think any restaurant worth its salt should treat a blogger who will only visit once (and they usually announce their presence to people in the restaurant pre-arrival) any better than someone like me.

And - when it comes to the highest level of restaurants - like Michelin 2/3 stars - the once in a lifetime customer should get a 2/3 star experience. And the regular customer perhaps 2/3 stars +. But no once in a lifetime customer should get this kind of inferior treatment IMO:

http://ny.eater.com/archives/2013/07..._to_daniel.php

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/24/di...agewanted=all&

I've been on both sides of this before. Losing side most often in New York (including at Daniel). But in Europe too (notable place that sticks in my mind there was Vendome). Winning side most often in France because we had an older well connected friend there for a long time - until he died. But it should never happen IMO (and the places I have loved the best are places where it doesn't!). You want to get into lots of food fights with lots of food bloggers - this is a good subject IMO :D.

Things were much simpler during my school years. All you had to do to get into good (Ivy League and similar) schools (we didn't have rankings then - it was simply a matter of blind faith) was get good grades. You didn't have to get good grades - play the cello - spend your afternoons as a volunteer in your local nursing home - and be a varsity athlete to boot :D. Robyn

I'm honestly confused about what you mean here. I've certainly seen higher end restaurants with heat lamps and similar. Also - there are foods that need to "rest" after being cooked - and before being served. And it's often best to do that at somewhat above room temp. Robyn