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-   -   Consolidated "Best Restaurants in the World" thread (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/diningbuzz/441605-consolidated-best-restaurants-world-thread.html)

SuperDudley Jul 9, 2014 5:36 pm


Originally Posted by bhrubin (Post 23134297)
If you want to do the tasting menu at Astrid y Gaston, you need to reserve that in advance--in addition to the reservation to dine there. I highly recommend it! I also recommend asking at Central for a table closer to the kitchen in the main dining room so you don't get stuck in one of the side hallways there.

You'll love both restaurants--they are tremendous.

Thank you. I think I have reservations for the tasting menu at Astrid y Gaston, but I don't read Spanish. so who knows what I'll be eating. They are now taking reservations online.

Good tip on Central. I'll try my best with my limited Spanish.

HKTraveler Jul 10, 2014 9:43 pm


Originally Posted by bhrubin (Post 23163204)
I am aware that many of Japan's wonderful restaurants are not Japanese cuisine, but the point is still salient IMO that no country has quite the monopoly on top restaurants nor on top cuisine as much as so many herein have claimed. Popularity is not the same as superiority IMO.

Food culture and economics play a major role in where "top" restaurants are located. There is a reason that some of the highest cost of living cities so often also have so many of what we consider to be the best restaurants. It is also a reason why so many other great restaurants are often ignored or forgotten in such rankings.

I am sorry that you and HK don't agree with me. I respect your opinions, but I don't quite see things the same way. That's what makes our world and the world of dining such a wonderful thing to me.


Agreed. I think we should agree to disagree and leave it at that. As for best restaurants these days, I enjoy simple things done to perfection rather than a lavish tasting menu or some innovative technique. My choice of last meal would probably be Etxebarri. Away from the crowds and simple grilling perfected.

bhrubin Jul 11, 2014 11:46 am


Originally Posted by HKTraveler (Post 23178350)
Agreed. I think we should agree to disagree and leave it at that. As for best restaurants these days, I enjoy simple things done to perfection rather than a lavish tasting menu or some innovative technique. My choice of last meal would probably be Etxebarri. Away from the crowds and simple grilling perfected.

Fair enough! We also love simple things done to perfection, but I can never turn down the chance for a lavish tasting menu that showcases what a top chef might be able to do.

Etxebarri sounds amazing. We're considering a foodie trip to Spain in the next few years, and it's definitely on the list.

GadgetFreak Jul 11, 2014 1:01 pm


Originally Posted by bhrubin (Post 23181304)
Fair enough! We also love simple things done to perfection, but I can never turn down the chance for a lavish tasting menu that showcases what a top chef might be able to do.

Etxebarri sounds amazing. We're considering a foodie trip to Spain in the next few years, and it's definitely on the list.

If you love simple things done well, try Honmura An in Tokyo (formerly NYC). Perfect soba, made and cut on site.

HKTraveler Jul 11, 2014 9:33 pm


Originally Posted by GadgetFreak (Post 23181669)
If you love simple things done well, try Honmura An in Tokyo (formerly NYC). Perfect soba, made and cut on site.

Thank you for the rec. Sounds exactly like the kind of places I like. Will give it a try next time I am there.

GadgetFreak Jul 11, 2014 9:53 pm


Originally Posted by HKTraveler (Post 23183515)
Thank you for the rec. Sounds exactly like the kind of places I like. Will give it a try next time I am there.

It had a really devoted following in New York for many years, and some threads here and on food sites before moving back to Tokyo. Enjoy!

Tony3021990 Jul 12, 2014 3:25 pm


Originally Posted by thucanhho (Post 23141287)
I too love Alinea. I would also recommend Achatz's Aviary if you have not been. I too am hopeful for Noma in the Fall. Good luck to both of us.

Why is no one mentioning EL Ideas in Chicago. I think it's better than Alinea.

Me and my wife did the chefs table at the aviary.....we didn't much care for it. Everyone's doing the posh drinks nowadays and for consistency any Hogsalt group restaurant are A Chicago gem.

sarahlee Jul 13, 2014 11:22 am

Where I've been
4. Eleven Madison Park -- This was better when they offered the grid format where you could have a conversation with the waitstaff and discuss your meal. Ever since moving to the full tasting only, I've never had as good of a meal as the ones of the past.
6. Mugaritz -- I really wanted to like this one... but it was awful. It was inventive, but some of the courses were just way out there which became disgusting. Shaved ice flavored with langoustine heads? Really? My fiancé called this the worst meal he's ever had and he does many of these restaurants with me.
9. Alinea--This was one of the best meals of my life. From the first bite which always left me wanting more to the fun atmosphere with some courses you could actually "play" with and "create" ending with Grant Achatz coming out and preparing the dessert course at your table. W.O.W.
21. Le Bernadin--The service is a little stuffy but the food is great. Not very "inventive" but always solid.
24. Amber--From the foie gras lollipops to the last bite, this is a standout in Hong Kong. It's a solid place with great service. They always do have great truffle menus!
26. Azurmendi--The view is lovely and the building with all the glass - could stay all day and just drink the cava. It's awesome you can tour the greenhouse to see the veggies/herbs that will be in your dishes.
30. Per Se --The service here can't be beat. When I said I loved the chocolate dusted nuts at the end of the meal, I got a box to take home. The awesome non-alcoholic pairings they do are the best I've ever had anywhere. If Mugaritz is my fiancé's last restaurant to ever choose, this is the first. The food here is amazing and I never get tired of the oyster and pearls, no matter how many times I've had it and I always get excited when i see lobster mitts on the menu.
33. Nihonryori Ryugin--Small restaurant, quiet noise level, really good food. Every dish was meticulously thought out and delicious.
34. Asador Extebarri--If I could pick my last meal, this would be it. From start to finish, every bite was amazing. We were also an hour late to the last reservation because I had typed in Exterbarri on the GPS which led us going to the town of Extebarri. Oops. They were still accommodating and gave us the full menu.
40. Daniel--Yum. This isn't as bad as lots of other boards have discussed with its snootiness. I thought the food was great and the service matched. It's not as inventive as others such as EMP, it's not as perfect as Per Se, but it is still good.
44 French Laundry-- Sept 2014
57. Tickets-- I liked 42 Degrees better.
60. Quay-- I thought the view was better than the food. It's not bad... it's just not amazing.
62. Manresa-- This was way too veggie focused. It was not spectacular. There were a few standout bites, but that was it. Into the garden? Ehh... maybe Iggy's (SG) copied him but I liked Iggy's better.
64. Momofuku ssam bar-- I'm glad this is on the list and Ko isn't. This stuff is awesome - get the duck.
66. Lung King Heen--This has great great dim sum... but if you want Chinese dinner food, head to Man Wah. I'm not knocking this place at all - I picked it for my going away dim sum lunch when I left HK. But my going away Chinese food dinner was at Man Wah.
67. 8 1/2 Otto E Mezzo--One of the best value tasting menus in Hong Kong. This place is delicious and he does wonders with white truffles.
68. Nomad--I'm still curious why people rave about this. I'm not a fan.
70. Momofuku Ko-- NO! It made the list. Drats. You want bar seat style dining that is way more delicious, go to Blanca. Ko is awful.
74. 41 Grados-- This was a fun journey "around the world" with bites, drinks, sounds all coordinated. Awesome night.
80. Restaurant at Meadowood-- Sept 2014
84. Iggys-- This was an awesome restaurant which is always consistent with good service. Unfortunately most of Asia's best bites are located in sterile hotels but the food is delicious.
85. Caprice-- This restaurant has had a few chef changes. It's good... but not great. If I want French, I'd normally hop on the ferry across to Macau for Robuchon au Dome.
86. Les Amis-- Yum! Another Singapore goody. The only problem (or maybe not a problem) is that it's very similar to the rest of them, Iggy's etc.
93. Marea--4 courses for $99? Awesome. Sit at the bar for one of his pastas? Awesome. While it will not blow your mind, it's an easy place to get dinner.
98. Jean George--Their lunch is a steal. The courses you can pick from also show up in the dinner menu as well. I'd go to their lunch 3 times vs going to dinner once.

After going through this list, you can tell there are definitely some holes in there. Some great restaurants just don't show up... and some you definitely wonder how it showed up.

Some other standouts off the top of my head -
Like HKTraveler, I too had the French Laundry/Per Se popup in Hong Kong: Thomas Keller flew all the ingredients with him and had his own front of house -- he was actually in the kitchen himself which I've seen him in Per Se just once out of the last six times I was there!

e, by jose andres in Las Vegas: I've heard that there has been a lot of staff changes so I don't know if this is as good as when it first opened. But when it did, it was WOW. To be honest, I ranked it higher than el Bulli.

I don't understand the obsession with Noma. I've had a lot of his people host popups and I've never liked any of the dishes -- which is why I've never scheduled a trip out to try it. Is it really that amazing? I'm hesitant to try it.

sfoactuary Jul 13, 2014 1:55 pm

Was just at The Restaurant at Meadowood this weekend and It's just ridiculous that it's ranked at #80. I'm shocked that it's not in the top 50, let alone the top 25. Certainly was better in all regards (food/service/ambiance) than our dinner at Per Se last month, and while probably influenced by recency bias but would put it ahead of The French Laundry as well.

bhrubin Jul 13, 2014 2:04 pm


Originally Posted by sarahlee (Post 23189143)
Where I've been
4. Eleven Madison Park -- This was better when they offered the grid format where you could have a conversation with the waitstaff and discuss your meal. Ever since moving to the full tasting only, I've never had as good of a meal as the ones of the past.
6. Mugaritz -- I really wanted to like this one... but it was awful. It was inventive, but some of the courses were just way out there which became disgusting. Shaved ice flavored with langoustine heads? Really? My fiancé called this the worst meal he's ever had and he does many of these restaurants with me.
9. Alinea--This was one of the best meals of my life. From the first bite which always left me wanting more to the fun atmosphere with some courses you could actually "play" with and "create" ending with Grant Achatz coming out and preparing the dessert course at your table. W.O.W.
21. Le Bernadin--The service is a little stuffy but the food is great. Not very "inventive" but always solid.
24. Amber--From the foie gras lollipops to the last bite, this is a standout in Hong Kong. It's a solid place with great service. They always do have great truffle menus!
26. Azurmendi--The view is lovely and the building with all the glass - could stay all day and just drink the cava. It's awesome you can tour the greenhouse to see the veggies/herbs that will be in your dishes.
30. Per Se --The service here can't be beat. When I said I loved the chocolate dusted nuts at the end of the meal, I got a box to take home. The awesome non-alcoholic pairings they do are the best I've ever had anywhere. If Mugaritz is my fiancé's last restaurant to ever choose, this is the first. The food here is amazing and I never get tired of the oyster and pearls, no matter how many times I've had it and I always get excited when i see lobster mitts on the menu.
33. Nihonryori Ryugin--Small restaurant, quiet noise level, really good food. Every dish was meticulously thought out and delicious.
34. Asador Extebarri--If I could pick my last meal, this would be it. From start to finish, every bite was amazing. We were also an hour late to the last reservation because I had typed in Exterbarri on the GPS which led us going to the town of Extebarri. Oops. They were still accommodating and gave us the full menu.
40. Daniel--Yum. This isn't as bad as lots of other boards have discussed with its snootiness. I thought the food was great and the service matched. It's not as inventive as others such as EMP, it's not as perfect as Per Se, but it is still good.
44 French Laundry-- Sept 2014
57. Tickets-- I liked 42 Degrees better.
60. Quay-- I thought the view was better than the food. It's not bad... it's just not amazing.
62. Manresa-- This was way too veggie focused. It was not spectacular. There were a few standout bites, but that was it. Into the garden? Ehh... maybe Iggy's (SG) copied him but I liked Iggy's better.
64. Momofuku ssam bar-- I'm glad this is on the list and Ko isn't. This stuff is awesome - get the duck.
66. Lung King Heen--This has great great dim sum... but if you want Chinese dinner food, head to Man Wah. I'm not knocking this place at all - I picked it for my going away dim sum lunch when I left HK. But my going away Chinese food dinner was at Man Wah.
67. 8 1/2 Otto E Mezzo--One of the best value tasting menus in Hong Kong. This place is delicious and he does wonders with white truffles.
68. Nomad--I'm still curious why people rave about this. I'm not a fan.
70. Momofuku Ko-- NO! It made the list. Drats. You want bar seat style dining that is way more delicious, go to Blanca. Ko is awful.
74. 41 Grados-- This was a fun journey "around the world" with bites, drinks, sounds all coordinated. Awesome night.
80. Restaurant at Meadowood-- Sept 2014
84. Iggys-- This was an awesome restaurant which is always consistent with good service. Unfortunately most of Asia's best bites are located in sterile hotels but the food is delicious.
85. Caprice-- This restaurant has had a few chef changes. It's good... but not great. If I want French, I'd normally hop on the ferry across to Macau for Robuchon au Dome.
86. Les Amis-- Yum! Another Singapore goody. The only problem (or maybe not a problem) is that it's very similar to the rest of them, Iggy's etc.
93. Marea--4 courses for $99? Awesome. Sit at the bar for one of his pastas? Awesome. While it will not blow your mind, it's an easy place to get dinner.
98. Jean George--Their lunch is a steal. The courses you can pick from also show up in the dinner menu as well. I'd go to their lunch 3 times vs going to dinner once.

After going through this list, you can tell there are definitely some holes in there. Some great restaurants just don't show up... and some you definitely wonder how it showed up.

Some other standouts off the top of my head -
Like HKTraveler, I too had the French Laundry/Per Se popup in Hong Kong: Thomas Keller flew all the ingredients with him and had his own front of house -- he was actually in the kitchen himself which I've seen him in Per Se just once out of the last six times I was there!

e, by jose andres in Las Vegas: I've heard that there has been a lot of staff changes so I don't know if this is as good as when it first opened. But when it did, it was WOW. To be honest, I ranked it higher than el Bulli.

I don't understand the obsession with Noma. I've had a lot of his people host popups and I've never liked any of the dishes -- which is why I've never scheduled a trip out to try it. Is it really that amazing? I'm hesitant to try it.

Noma is as amazing as they say. I had lunch there 2 yrs ago, and I've dined at most of the top 100 or comparable restaurants. It's not quite as crazy inventive as Alinea, but the ease with which each dish's unusual ingredients comes together is magnificent...and even with non-protein sources. Its relaxed atmosphere and friendly yet polished staff also create a wonderful environment that is far less formal than most on the top of any list--something I love. Noma may offer pop-ups but I doubt they compare to the actual restaurant. Don't make the mistake of missing Noma.

FYI, I had dinner at Geranium the following evening, and I felt Geranium is worthy of a top 10 ranking and easily one of the best in the world even when compared to Noma. It is more formal in feel, yet still has a friendly staff that opened up once they realized we were not so formal ourselves. The food was absolutely stupendous, with combinations of things I normally detest which when brought together were absolutely delicious--a true hallmark for me of food greatness. The wine pairings were perhaps the best I've ever had and made everything taste even more incredible. It may be the finest overall dinner I've ever enjoyed, but it's tough to compare at this level.

L20 in Chicago also had one of the finest wine pairings I've ever had, just a few months ago...and that was the evening before we dined at Alinea. We thought Alinea was absolutely incredible, as well, but more for its perfect food preparation and crazy creations and presentations that set it apart from any other restaurant.

bhrubin Jul 13, 2014 2:09 pm


Originally Posted by sfoactuary (Post 23189798)
Was just at The Restaurant at Meadowood this weekend and It's just ridiculous that it's ranked at #80. I'm shocked that it's not in the top 50, let alone the top 25. Certainly was better in all regards (food/service/ambiance) than our dinner at Per Se last month, and while probably influenced by recency bias but would put it ahead of The French Laundry as well.

I absolutely agree. Meadowood is our favorite in California. We liked French Laundry but didn't love it--and it's formality and stuffiness were off-putting to us. Meadowood and now-closed Cyrus were our faves easily over the FL. Meadowood may suffer fron the formal preferences of reviewers and diners alike, since it's more relaxed atmosphere (and no jacket reqt and even permission of dark denim) may cause some to question it's proper credentials. I'd out Meadowood well above FL and easily in my Top 50, as well. But that is what makes the world turn--everyone having different taste.

robyng Jul 14, 2014 6:39 am


Originally Posted by sarahlee (Post 23189143)
...98. Jean George--Their lunch is a steal. The courses you can pick from also show up in the dinner menu as well. I'd go to their lunch 3 times vs going to dinner once.

Your post brings up a good point. Lunches at great restaurants are often great values - if not a steal like the one at Jean Georges. Our most memorable was the 100 euro (now 110 euro) lunch at Guy Savoy (although it turned into a 200+ euro lunch including wines ;)).

And - even if someone doesn't care about the "value" - lunch is extremely useful if - for example - you're traveling from the east coast of the US to Asia and winding up fast asleep by 6 pm as a result of extreme jet lag. Also - on our part - lunch is usually our main meal of the day. So - even if we don't have jet lag - we like to make a long lazy lunch the centerpiece of a vacation day.


After going through this list, you can tell there are definitely some holes in there. Some great restaurants just don't show up... and some you definitely wonder how it showed up...
I think marketing and PR play a role. IMO - that's one reason why relatively few restaurants from countries like Japan and France show up on the San Pellegrino list.


e, by jose andres in Las Vegas: I've heard that there has been a lot of staff changes so I don't know if this is as good as when it first opened. But when it did, it was WOW. To be honest, I ranked it higher than el Bulli.
I've been to Bazaar in Los Angeles twice. The first time was a total WOW. The second time it was merely very good (except for the house signature gin & tonic - which went from amazing to so-so). Perhaps Chef Andres is spreading himself too thin?


I don't understand the obsession with Noma. I've had a lot of his people host popups and I've never liked any of the dishes -- which is why I've never scheduled a trip out to try it. Is it really that amazing? I'm hesitant to try it.
I've never been to Noma. But it's a member of what I call the "dirt and moss" school of cooking (although others might call it "New Scandinavian" :)). I've been to a couple of similar restaurants - including Frantzen (then Frantzen Lindeberg) in Stockholm. It's a food style you have to try at least once IMO - at a restaurant that does it very well (and Frantzen does). But I don't think you necessarily have to try it at Noma.

Judging from your list - you've been in Singapore (perhaps more than once). What do you think are the best restaurants there (I'd like your opinion - as well as the opinions of other people here - not San Pellegrino's)? We'll be there for the first time in a few months. Robyn

bhrubin Jul 14, 2014 10:21 am


Originally Posted by robyng (Post 23192703)
I've never been to Noma. But it's a member of what I call the "dirt and moss" school of cooking (although others might call it "New Scandinavian" :)). I've been to a couple of similar restaurants - including Frantzen (then Frantzen Lindeberg) in Stockholm. It's a food style you have to try at least once IMO - at a restaurant that does it very well (and Frantzen does). But I don't think you necessarily have to try it at Noma.

So many people are commenting about what they love and don't love and what they think is worth a trip and what they don't. Yet no one can make a claim about a restaurant until they have actually eaten there!

IMO, Noma is undoubtedly one of the great restaurants of our age. If you don't like "dirt and moss" then perhaps you won't like it much, but then I despised all foie gras until I ate foie gras at Atelier de Joel Robuchon in Paris (and then 1 Place Vendome, L20, and Alinea), where I loved it. That's how I knew Robuchon was an amazing chef (as well as those at the others above), since any chef who can make me like something I normally despise is a world class chef to me.

Alinea made me love shortbreads, something no other restaurant has done.

Noma made me love vegetables, ant paste, and an assortment of things I'd never have known I might love (or that even might be considered food!).

Meadowood made me love seared uni steak, something no other restaurant has done.

Amber made me love truffles, though admittedly it was my first true chance to really try an assortment of dishes with truffles.

Varvary made me love and appreciate certain types of mushrooms, something I normally detest or in some cases just don't like very much.

Everyone IMO should refrain from criticizing a restaurant they haven't dined at until they have had the chance to actually dine there. Not the popup but the actual restaurant with the whole operation in its proper place.

For the record, no restaurant yet has made me enjoy oysters or beets.

robyng Jul 14, 2014 1:55 pm


Originally Posted by bhrubin (Post 23193706)
So many people are commenting about what they love and don't love and what they think is worth a trip and what they don't. Yet no one can make a claim about a restaurant until they have actually eaten there!

IMO, Noma is undoubtedly one of the great restaurants of our age. If you don't like "dirt and moss" then perhaps you won't like it much, but then I despised all foie gras until I ate foie gras at Atelier de Joel Robuchon in Paris (and then 1 Place Vendome, L20, and Alinea), where I loved it. That's how I knew Robuchon was an amazing chef (as well as those at the others above), since any chef who can make me like something I normally despise is a world class chef to me.

Alinea made me love shortbreads, something no other restaurant has done.

Noma made me love vegetables, ant paste, and an assortment of things I'd never have known I might love (or that even might be considered food!).

Meadowood made me love seared uni steak, something no other restaurant has done.

Amber made me love truffles, though admittedly it was my first true chance to really try an assortment of dishes with truffles.

Varvary made me love and appreciate certain types of mushrooms, something I normally detest or in some cases just don't like very much.

Everyone IMO should refrain from criticizing a restaurant they haven't dined at until they have had the chance to actually dine there. Not the popup but the actual restaurant with the whole operation in its proper place.

For the record, no restaurant yet has made me enjoy oysters or beets.

Didn't say I liked or didn't like a particular kind of food. Just suggested that Noma isn't the only restaurant that serves this kind of food. If I had never been to Scandinavia before - I'd definitely go to Norway first. Because the country is absolutely drop dead gorgeous. Oslo has a relatively new 2 star Michelin restaurant (Maaemo) - and that's where I'd go to try this kind of cuisine:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-0...-s-maaemo.html

Note that I didn't criticize Noma either. However it is IMO really over-hyped for a 2 star Michelin restaurant IMO. FWIW - I think the Michelin Guide is usually pretty accurate in Europe. Less so outside Europe. And I trust Andy Hayler more than Michelin (only because our tastes in food are very similar):

http://www.andyhayler.com/restaurant/noma

I would be hard-pressed to call any restaurant the "restaurant of our age". Note that my age is late 60's - and I've been dining in excellent to great restaurants for almost 40 years now. There are many I've liked - and I have my favorites. Some - ranging from places like Chez Panisse to Jamin - have been hugely influential. But - even though I've been to I don't know how many of these restaurants - I haven't been to enough to say that a place is "the restaurant of our age". Note that I have never been to a "pop up".

FWIW - I like almost all foods - and love many. Including foie gras - uni - beets and oysters ;). No chef has to get me to eat my veggies (although I prefer great desserts :D). BTW - when it comes to uni - Chef Kostow grates dried uni on a steak. So you probably still don't like fresh uni.

Also - unless a person is going to a particular great restaurant more than once and/or visiting a particular city more than once - I'd order the things I tend to love (as opposed to those things that I simply find ok - although this is becoming increasingly hard to do as more and more restaurants opt for tasting menus only). Also - I'd go to the restaurants that specialize in those things. For example - I'll go to Le Bernardin as opposed to Peter Luger (or whatever is supposed to be a great steakhouse) - because I love fish and am only so-so about beef.

Also - I try to visit countries/cities when things I like are in season (like spargel in Germany in the spring - and game in various European countries in the fall). And even go to countries because their cuisines/ingredients appeal to me (like fish in Japan and Sweden).

Robyn

sarahlee Jul 14, 2014 2:32 pm

Robyn -

What type of restaurants do you like?
How many nights are you spending in SG?
I want to make sure I steer you to the right ones as someone who gets to visit quite often will want someone who only goes 1x a year... vs someone who already lives in Asia visiting vs someone who isn't from the area at all.


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