Menus without prices
 

I've only been back to the US twice in the past two years, so menus without prices is a new thing to me, though the practice appears to have been going on for a while.

I noticed it in two chain restaurants (Hooter's and Chili's) and an airport bar (maybe opacity is more common in that market). Both the Hooter's and Chili's menus listed calories, but not prices (on drinks only for the latter). In the former case, the waitress said I could scan a QR code to view prices or ask her so she could check the POS computer. She said prices change frequently and they don't want to print new menus every week. I suppose this is marginally preferable to forcing customers to use cheap tablet computers (that often get stuck on a Windows home screen). Meanwhile, Chili's menus do feature food prices (along with calory counts), but not drink prices. Unlike Hooter's, there is no QR code option, and their tablet (that you can order from) doesn't list prices until after you add items to your cart. The waitress told me that margaritas cost between $6 and $21, and she didn't know specifics off hand. I also asked her about happy hour and she said that none of the menu items were happy hour items. I didn't press her further and simply settled on an iced tea.

I don't want this post to come across as a rant because my dining experiences were fine otherwise, and I felt the prices were reasonable, but I'm simply curious about how far and wide this trend is spreading. I mean, how volatile can the cost of Corona beer possibly be?

Maybe dynamic pricing is coming Figure out how hungry and/or thirsty you are are adjust prices to extract maximum revenue.

It could be a new trend. Enough small restaurants give a daily printed menu with the specific printed date with prices.

I’ve yet to dine at chilis hooters this year so I’ve not seen such menus.

More environmentally friendly (and easier for short-staffed kitchens),

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.

Often when I look up a restaurant menu online it doesn't list prices and I hate that. I don't remember seeing that in person but if I did I would ask for a menu with prices. I have no interest in scanning a bar code to read a menu. Terrible practice.

I'm afraid it's going to be widespread sooner than we would like.

I also love using my phone to order at the table so that a server just brings the food and whatever we want. I don’t need a server to take my order on paper and then input it in a POS. Why aren’t servers using a tablet to wirelessly order my food instantly like Wagamama’s (uk) did in the 90s? So I’ll gladly order on my phone so that the food just arrives.

I absolutely hate it. Interaction with the server, counter person, or bartender is a very important part of the dining out experience. 4 trips through IAH lately cemented that view.

Nevertheless, I'm sure it will become more widespread. Verbal communication is not as important to humans as it was in the past.

this is more for casual meals with table service. I want more service for more expensive places. Something like Chinese or pizza or burgers or Mexican or Indian all costs less. In general and I’m happy to just order by phone. I loved our Sherman’s deli meal and phone order at table would have been much faster compared to the busy server experience where she had to also take table orders.

I’m surprised that’s legal. Hopefully it’s another invention which consumer protection will stop from crossing the Atlantic.

The name of the thread did make me wonder if it was a reference to the good old days where only the person paying (traditionally the gentleman obviously, no longer an assumption) would see prices on their menu. The practice went out of fashion in normal restaurants other than France before my time, though some london private clubs still have the practice.

One of the great thing about cruises I have taken is the ability to order anything on the menu and never see prices.

I refuse to order or see a menu through a QR code. It's a big security risk. If that is what is required just to see a menu, I'll just walk out. You want to implement a tablet system, I have no problem with that. But the potential to go to a malicious website or software installed on your phone... Sorry, but no thanks.

The reason most places don't use tablets is the high initial startup cost. You're looking at several to tens of thousands of dollars depending on the size of the restaurant. The tablets... The server and initial setup and menu scans. Then depending on the company, some require you to use them to input new dishes and maintain the system. Not cheap.

I always ask for a paper menu. If they can't provide one...buh, bye. And not for the same reasons as you....it is just so much easier for me to read and I like not having to scroll through me phone. Can you imagine a big, multi page menu like the Cheesecake Factory on your phone?

Haven't visited Cheesecake Factory yet, but I can imagine. I don't mind the tablet systems I have encountered, but yeah, paper works as well. Many of the restaurants here (at least the asian ones) usually just cross out the price and scribble in the new price beside (or put stickers on top). I like the tablet system as well as you can (usually) track down how much you have consumed... most of the time I see it, it's usually in a buffet (where they bring it to your table) or AYCE sushi setting and it's handy to see what we've ordered, what we haven't and what we have received. You could track it via paper as well, but that's usually additional paperwork floating around.

Hooter's was literally next door to the hotel I stayed at in Orlando after the long flight from Shanghai. The buffalo shrimp were a godsend. Chili's has a solid three course (well, the first course is a soft drink) menu.

But did either or both Hooters and Chili's have prices on their respective menus?

David

Hooter's = no prices at all

Chili's = no prices for drinks (including soda)

I could have almost starved in Texas recently if I had followed this advise. It was very common, even in some small taquerias. This is why I think we're going to see a lot more of it.
And as I said, I don't like it at all.

I mentioned airport pricing in the OP, but I'm wondering how people feel about this. I'm guess I'm glad I only had one $27 bloody Mary.

Possibly. But there are just so many things that could go wrong, and I would rather not sacrifice my security just because a restaurant has the misguided belief that they're making a difference by saving a few sheets of paper.

If they want to make a difference, deal with the food waste that they generate. The plastic waste they generate. They would be doing a lot more environmental damage control dealing with stuff like that vs saving the printing costs. And even that can be mitigated in a variety of ways.

The other thing to consider about not having prices on the in-store menu.... it's dishonest. It does not allow a customer to make an informed decision about the product they're getting. For Hooters and Chili's.... I can understand if they (the chains) don't want to put pricing on the "national" menu... prices can vary from location to location even within the city. But to not put pricing on the menu at that location? That allows the operators to vary the pricing as they see fit and you have no idea what the criteria is. "That guy looks rich because of all the elite tags on their laptop bag... let's add a bit for him"... "That's my college buddy over there, let's lower the price there"... And for the wait staff unable to quote a price? That means the price is HIGHLY variable and you can't really trust it. I would not patronize such places (I'd be more likely to report them to the BBB or if a chain, the head office).

You want to make a buck? I get that. But be honest about it.

(As a side node, I also refuse to use uber or the delivery services of door dash or skipthedishes as well... I have only used door dash once as I was gifted some credit... and I did pick-up due to the dis-ingenuous setup of these services)

I disagree with this as well. Airside, they have a captive audience... that doesn't give them the right to jack up the prices. I will note, for "common food" (eg, not bars) I find in Asia (I can't speak for the other regions) the prices aren't too far off the mark airside vs. landside. Although who is to blame for airside prices, I don't know.

I will give a shoutout to Tim Hortons at YYZ International airside though. Their prices are the same airside and landside (give or take a dime or so)

Can you imagine walking into Nordstrom to buy some clothes and not having prices on the items or expecting people to scan a QR code to find out the price. No way.

Not sure about Nordstrom but I used to like to go to Macy's, grab a bunch of stuff, and take it to a price scanner to see how much the real sale price was.

You have to scan tags at Macy's because their pricing system and faux sales are so untrustworthy it's ridiculous. There's the tag price, which only someone in a desperate hurry would pay, and then there's the sale because it's Saturday, or Tuesday, or Leap Year, or whatever, plus the "Bonus Buy!" discount, and maybe another discount or two if the salesclerk feels like it.

I don't want to play that game, especially not in a restaurant. No prices on the menu, I'm out of there, and frankly I doubt refusing to put the price in writing is legal in most states, and I know failing to answer a customer's question about the price is illegal in any state I've lived in. Scan a QR code for the price? What game are they playing? Again, not happening for me.

Now that sounds like JCPenney... :)

Back on topic, even if they write up a menu board of the day (with or without prices), most folks either won't see it nor be able to read it from any specific location a restaurant.

David

The board is usually where they put either the specials they want to push or the high markup stuff they want to push (at least that's my guess)...

But maybe it's a cultural difference... Most of the menus I know of that don't have a price are usually those chain restaurants that have the same menu nation (or province) wide... but when you get to the location, the prices are on the menu. It does make me wonder if it's sanctioned by their respective head offices and if not, what they would do...

But a gourmand like you would not be caught dead in a Cheesecake Factory.

The calorie counts scare me into ordering cucumber dishes:D

Lol
I am not a restaurant snob! I love me some Popeye's fried chicken sandwich and Sabrett's hot dogs from a cart and all kinds of un-gourmet places. I do actually like CF. Their avocado eggrolls are the best.

Haven't eaten in a Cheesecake Factory for >25 years. Is it as good as this leads one to believe?

I last went to the one in The Grove (LA) near the aapl store and the late Dominique Ansel. I have loved that bang bang chicken & shrimp for decades.

Marina Del Rey was my choice location down there.

I remember when they first opened on Beverly Drive in Beverly Hills and their focus was cheesecakes. They also served salads, sandwiches and a few other savory dishes. However, over the years, their menu expanded; there are way too many items for them to be able to prepare any of them well. Their menu items are simplified, so that they can be quickly prepared by line cooks. The food has been dumbed down to appeal to the masses, for example, pasta puttanesca prepared without anchovies and Vietnamese summer rolls without mint.

The dish process simplification must be a reality if the food is supposedly all freshly prepared in house as the article claims. The number of line cooks they'd have to have who be impossible, but they seem to have the volume and the article claims they test every dish for reproducibility and probably ergonomics. Can't remember what I ate (Bellevue Mall) but it didn't leave any impression. As for leaving seemingly-essential ingredients out, I suspect it is because people don't care for it? Been a long time since I've had a Caesar salad anywhere that had any hint of anchovies.

We've found that in all cases, with only one exception, a paper menu was available upon request - at least post-COVID rules. To be fair, the one place that refused has a chalkboard menu, although we were seated outside and couldn't see it. So we used our phones that time.

I ordered from a McDonald's kiosk this summer and thought it was a perfectly fine experience. The kiosk had pictures, prices, descriptions, etc. I'm a huge fan of fast food automation so we can stop hearing the nonsense about how 15 years olds deserve a living wage :). I hope that trend catches on. When I'm at any type of restaurant where I don't order from the counter/kiosk, I want to see a real menu and interact with waitstaff. And above all that, there's no way my mother in her 70's is going to use a digital menu or order from a kiosk. She barely knows how to text.

My wife can not see the menu on her phone. Sometimes if she zooms and scrolls, which is an unpleasant experience for her. Otherwise, I literally have to read her the menu which is unpleasant for both of us. As I posted above, at least that hasn't been an issue as COVID restaurant practices have begun to peter out.

In general, and to your original post, at no time should a restaurant provide you a menu with no prices when you're receiving service. There are only a handful of situations where I'd agree to purchase something without knowing the price, typically a less expensive item from someone I trust - "Hey, I'll buy the first round of beers, you get the next one". It's an especially egregious practice in an airport where a $27 cocktail is not all that unusual.

At a time in the US where politicians are clamoring for pricing transparency in every facet of our lives, because of supposed hidden charges, this seems like a good next target, where the prices actually are completely hidden.

I used to get really annoyed at restaurants that had menus on their websites but no prices. At this point between inflation and supply chain shortages, I can at least understand why they wouldn't want to print prices online. Restaurants are truly stuck in a terrible position. If they print prices, they have to reprint every time the price of ground beef doubles overnight. If they use paper menus, people complain or even protest because they aren't environmentally friendly. Perhaps the answer for airports is digital menu boards (like the chalkboard) where they can simply update prices. A few of those in a restaurant/bar area could cover the food menu and maybe 80% of bar orders?

I completely agree with the above. Additionally, I can’t remember the last time that I bought food at an airport. I try to avoid going to national chain restaurants and pretty much only go to small, locally owned restaurants. Only thing I order to be delivered is pizza, again, local shop, and pay the delivery driver with cash.

Yours truly,
Curmudgeon

The only time I don't have a "real" menu are at buffets/AYCE places (assuming you don't count the tablets). But that's OK for me. Similar places where they don't use tablets usually screw up the order somehow (multiple times).. Oh... and dim sum places. But that's a different story altogether. (and they employ grouchy old ladies anyway)

I use the app or kiosks before the order taker at quickserve restaurants. Partly out of being impatient (there is always a lineup at the in-person order taker) but also it's faster (I can punch the stuff out as fast as the order takers). This isn't a knock on them, just that once I get used to the layout, it's all automatic for me.

I'd still prefer printed menus at a standalone restaurant. As I mentioned, the few pages that need reprinting would not be a big impact on the environment, certainly less than from the other wastes that are generated and in most cases, can be mitigated in other ways (eg, "firestarter" for those with real fires in their kitchens or scratch paper or depending on where the paper was used before, rodent bait). As I mentioned, some of the places which put less of an emphasis on the looks of the menu (eg, most chinese restaurants) often put a small sticker on their menu to cover the original price and put in a new price. So not quite a whole reprint, but a cheat of sorts.

As for airports, I can't speak for others right now, but YYZ has tablets fixed at the table where you order, then the wait staff brings the foods over. You can kinda use them for surfing at the same time (personally I would prefer my own tablet, but whatever works) The concept works (including the sticker shock from seeing airport pricing). I actually prefer it over the digital or chalk signboards... there's already enough distraction there.

I would love to do this at the airport (support small chains with interesting food), but most airports use a central service provider to manage all the tenant stalls. So it's harder to tell. But then you get the captive-audience pricing unless the chain is big enough to negotiate the pricing down...

I think I ate there once. Loved the brown bread. Discovered that those delicious rolls and sliced sandwich bread are now available in some supermarkets in the Los Angeles area. I always have some of the rolls in my freezer.

The original Caesar salad recipe, created by Caesar Cardini, does not have anchovies. It called for Worcestershire sauce, which is made with a small amount of anchovies.

Do you bring your own food or just not eat in airports/planes? My travel has gone way down since COVID started, but I still find myself with no other option than airport food at least a few times per year. The meal hierarchy during travel to me is: Anything else => Airport food => Airplane food :). I avoid the last unless I'm in F, and sometimes even then. But it seems I often get stuck with airport food on my way home from a business trip. You're lucky!

I don’t bring my own food. My travel is primarily international and this year I was fortunate enough to fly Polaris on all of my flights. I eat in airports, in a sense, but only in the lounge, this year, specifically, the Polaris Lounge. As I said upthread, I can’t remember the last time I bought food in an airport. With the exception of a croissant at ZRH. 😁

I do like the United Club at my home airport of MSY which serves gumbo and jambalaya. :tu: :tu:

On planes, I’ll eat a small amount of my meal, but only enough to tide me over until I get where I’m going.