Lasagne - Order of Layers
 

For today's discussion:

Meat Lasagne. What order should the layers be? This is a typical American style Lasagne, so the layers are noodles, meat sauce, ricotta, and mozzarella. We will assume that there is a bit of sauce on the bottom of the pan and then start with noodles, so things don't stick. What comes next? Meat sauce, the ricotta, or even the mozzarella? Does the top layer stay the same, or get reversed?

1) Meat sauce
2) Béchamel sauce
3) Pasta
4) Meat sauce
5) Béchamel sauce
6) Pasta
...)
X) Pasta
X+1) A little Béchamel sauce + Parmesan

IMHO ricotta or mozzarella have no place in a lasagna. I know that there are as many recipes for Lasagnas as there are Fiats and scooters in Italia, but I'm more or less sticking to the more traditional Lasagne pasticciate.

You sound just like a friend of mine.

1. Sauce in bottom of the pan.
2. Noodles.
3. Ricotta, mixed with egg, seasonings, and mozz.
4. Meat
5. Sauce
6. Noodles

Repeat steps 3-6 as necessary. Top with sauce and cheese.

So nobody puts ricotta on the top layer?

The way I always make it, and this is mostly because how my mother made it (a non-italian), was meat sauce then ricotta, but the top layer she always put a little ricotta down first, then topped with the meat sauce. The ricotta cooked up a bit, and I always liked that topping.

I always stop with a thin layer of Béchamel Sauce just to keep the top layer of pasta moist. The last 5 minutes of cooking, I raise the temperature by a couple degrees, which activates the grill and makes the top layer (thanks to the parmesan) very crispy.

I've never used Ricotta or Mozzarella with the traditional recipe. I did do other variants with layers of pesto rosso instead of the meat sauce and a mixture of Parmesan, Ricotta, a few sliced dried tomatoes and basil instead of the Béchamel Sauce. It's nice too and can be eaten by vegetarians. It's no help for vegans, given that there's lots of cheese and one egg involved.

Don't get me wrong - I love bechamel and bechamel based lasagne/pasta baked dishes. But it's a pain to make, time consuming, and health-wise not very good, especially when you have a bunch of people watching their carbs. So at least for family dinners I go with the ricotta.

I do a meat & vegetable lasagna that is red sauce, noodle, bechamel, either roasted eggplant puree or deseeded zucchini slices, noodle, ground meat, noodle, bechamel, red sauce, noodle, mushrooms, (repeat layers as needed/wanted) ending with red sauce, noodle, bechamel with parmesan & pecorino blend.

Forgive me if I'm misunderstanding, but is trying to manage the carbohydrates in a lasagne by removing the béchamel not ignoring the pasta shaped elephant in the room?

It's certainly a lot less anyways. They're family, logic has nothing to do with anything here.

That there says it all. And is 100% true.

A tip from my 91 year old Italian mother-in-law, who lives in Italy. Mix the ragù and the bechemel together. Don't ever, ever use those disgusting thick, wavy lasagne noodles. Use the very thin, flat ones that don't need to be boiled beforehand (all major pasta brands make them - look for subito in forno on the box). Even Trader Joes' own brand is subito in forno.

1. A bit of sauce on the bottom of the pan
2. Noodles (the dry thin, flat ones and not pre-cooked as above)
3. Sauce (mixed ragù and bechemel)
4. Small amount of parmigiano reggiano
Repeat at least 3 or 4 times.

I am a terrible cook but I have about 5 things that I make very well and my lasagne is killer.

And bechamel is simple and fast. Melt butter, add flour, cook about a minute. Add warm milk, a small amount at a time at first, then faster. Cook 5 minutes or so until thickened. Add a bit of white pepper, a pinch of nutmeg and I like a pinch of cayenne. Done.

Thanks to this thread I had to have lasagne for dinner.

I make a really yummy meat free version using a really earthy herby mushroom ragout.

Now I'm starting to see why I don't care much for most lasagna.

However I do love my wife's recipe, and we've been doing it this way for 38 years now.

13X9 baking dish
A little meat sauce on the bottom
Noodles (3)- regular thick wavy pre-cooked.
Meat sauce
1/2 pound skim milk mozzarella
Noodles (3)
Meat sauce
Wilted spinach
1/2 pound skim milk mozzarella
Noodles (3)
A little meat sauce on top
Grated Parmesan at the table

Edited to add, our meat sauce is loaded with fresh sliced sauteed mushrooms. An essential ingredient.

I use the "make life easier" method of layering.

1. meat sauce

2. take a raw (hard) noodle, the ricotta and a wide bladed spreader. Spread a generous layer of ricotta down the noodle, place it ricotta side up in the dish. Complete layer with cheese covered noodles.

3. meat sauce

repeat the above until either the pan is full or you run out of noodles. Top with gated cheese of your choice. Cover tightly with plastic wrap, refrigerate for 24 hours or so, bake according to recipe.

I absolutely hate trying to get hot, limp noodles to layer nicely, and ricotta is not a cooperative food product. This method eliminates both of those headaches and comes out just fine.

I've never even heard of using ricotta in a meat lasagne - I'd only really expect it with spinach in a veggie one (although IMO that works better with cannelloni than lasagne). Firmly in the bechamel camp here. It's really not time-consuming - well, depending on how long you want to infuse the bay etc - just roux, milk, heat & stir.

not a big fan of lasagne, there have been a couple of versions I've enjoyed but just never lives up to the hype for me.

Was at the barber shop yesterday and my barber and two other Italians were comparing how their various families make lasagne, from what I gathered, there isn't any set way for the layers to be FWIW, each family did things a bit different.

1. Noodles
2. Ricotta mixture of eggs, ricotta, Parmesan cheese, and parsley
3. Mozzarella cheese
4. Sauce
5. Repeat the layers

I heartily recommend making lasagna with fresh made pasta. No need to precook, just use them as they come out of the pasta rolled. Utterly sublime in a way you'll never achieve with boxed pasta.

I'm probably a heretic, but I do use ricotta that I mix with some ground pepper and parsley.

I agree that homemade pasta is best. In Santa Monica, Ca. there is an Italian grocery which sells homemade lasagna pasta. It's great. I'm sure there are other cities which also offer this. I am of the no mozzarella school, but ricotta is better and béchamel the best.:)

My grandmother used to mix sliced meatballs into the ricotta layer. I guess the family recipe is a hybrid. She'd have been mortified if anyone suggested adding vegetables of any sort, however.

It's funny how with Italian cooking, everyone is a little different but everyone likes to insist there's only one right way.

Personally, I can't stand lasagne and haven't touched one in 20 years or more.

Chicago had a bunch of Italian groceries that sold all sorts of useful stuff including "pizza dough in a bag" they're disappearing one by one.

There is boxed pasta, that doesn't need precooking. While they taste acceptable, the fresh pasta sold in most grocery stores is better and the fresh pasta sold by a small Italian shop (usually an Italian woman having made pasta for decades) is king.

I like this thread already. So many different recipes, methods, etc. . This is important stuff. Garfield would be proud of us. :D

#5 - regular boxed with the curly edges - never become part of the dish, they just sits there

#4 - no precooking boxed pasta - slightly better

#3 - grocery store fresh pasta

#2 - Italian shop fresh - better but still not 100% fresh by the time it hits the kitchen

#1 - fresh from my own kitchen - a couple minutes to make the dough - eggs and flour, 30 minutes resting, a quick roll out at the very point you're ready to assemble. That's fresh!

Never had #5 and #1 is too much work. I find cooking the meat sauce from scratch exhausting enough.

I hope you grease the bottom of the pan well first. One of
the reasons most of us put a ladle of sauce in the bottom
is to prevent sticking.

Ricotta (or cottage cheese! or both!!) is a standard component
of American home-kitchen lasagna casseroles. It's kind of okay.
I agree with you about bechamel, which improves many things
and takes mere minutes to make.

Sometimes one has to prioritize how to use "a couple minutes" in the kitchen. Most of what we eat is made from scratch, in my kitchen, by me. It's also gluten-free, soy free, lactose free (to the extent possible) because there are 2 celiacs and a kid with a laundry list of food allergies here. We use high quality gluten-free pasta (yes, it DOES exist) and make the sauce with herbs I grow. If you haven't tried cooking with herbs right of the plant, you're in for a surprise when you try it. Priorities differ.

We do provolone cheese instead of the mozzarella

I'm in the bechamel camp myself. Genuinely interesting thread, I've never heard of ricotta (or even cottage cheese!) in a standard meat lasagne.

Quick question from a confused Brit, why is the pasta referred to as noodles? (I'm assuming everyone is talking about the iPhone Plus / A5 sized pasta sheets)

Italian-American Lasagne noodles are 3/12-4in wide flat pasta with curly edges.
The term Lasagne is used for both the noodle and the dish. I did not realize there was such a difference in what is called Lasagne here and across the pond until I started digging into this. I think you can find the large flat sheets of pasta at specialty shops, but lasagne in America anyways is seen as more of a homestyle comfort food, and specialty food kind of don't fit it's image.

Keep in mind ricotta itself is different over here. For us it comes in containers like oversized yogurt tubs. Yes you can find real ricotta too now, but most people automatically thin the stuff in tubs. That may be why it is viewed more as a special dish in Europe and a home style dish in the US.

The curly-edged version is way too thick for my taste. The boxed "no pre-cook" pasta is better, and while in narrower widths and not a large flat sheet, it doesn't really matter since they get incorporated into the dish in any case, and then then cut into pieces when serving. When I make my own the same thing results, since my pasta maker is about the same width as the boxed flat lasagne.

I don't think so. It's comfort food in Europe too. There's nothing fancy in throwing meat sauce, béchamel and layers of pasta together and putting it in the oven for 20 minutes.

Yup, in the UK, lasagne, chips and garlic bread* is a popular pub carbfest.

The horsemeat version is a popular frozen meal.

* It's the future.

Lasagne and chips? That is an unusual combination.

Looks like an "old" England & New England rivalry has started again :P
That sure is one carb heavy meal but I can see the allure during or after a night of heavy drinking.

This thread got me interested in making some lasagna today. I'm wondering about the several posts saying that the two sauces should be placed together between layers of noodles. My past experience is that this makes them blend into one during cooking and makes the noodles slide around more. What about alternating: meat sauce, pasta, bechemel/ricotta, pasta, meat sauce, pasta, bechemel/ricotta, pasta, meat sauce?

I think people should start making lasagnas, posting a photo(s) and commenting on their method.

I think the blending depends on how thick/thin the sauces are. I tend to go for a thicker bechamel and a light but not thin meat sauce. It also depends how much sauce and what noodles you're using for the layering. They blend a bit but the flavors are distinguishable.

Blending is a bad thing?

I actually like how the meat sauce blends a bit with the ricotta. Separate layers of ricotta and sauce to me doesn't really make a new dish - may as well just have ziti with meat sauce and ricotta in that case. The trick for Ricotta, btw, is to drop a large number of small dollops over the noodle or sauce, so that you don't have to force it around so much.

Impossible. I'm trying to lose weight (thank you Christmas/ NYE feasts) and pasta is currently of the menu.

I didn't say you had to eat it :p

I made a vegetable noodle "lasagna" today as part of my New Years diet but then my neighbor called and invited me over for steaks so off I go to that :P