Is $22 Corkage Fee a Bit Much?
 

My anniversary is 1986 and I have some 1986 Bordeaux in the basement that I like to pull out once or twice a year. I decided on a restaurant this year (Groupon helped me decide) and I asked about bringing my own wine and they said it was a $22 corkage fee.

I think I have paid $10 corkage before but was kind shocked by $22. On the other hand, if we pay for a couple of glasses of wine I could be up to $22 quite easily. I'm actually kind of okay with the corkage fee after getting over the initial shock.

Is $22 a bit much?

Depends on the restaurant of course but in a major city this would be very acceptable.

$22 is an "odd" number. Around these parts, they seem to be in increments of $5. The range is $10 to $25. And some with the higher fees can have reasonable markups on what they carry, making me less likely to bring something.

A special bottle for a special meal? If the restaurant uses proper stemware and provides proper wine service,$22 is not out of line.

It's a lot of money but it's definitely not unusual.

Booze is a major profit center for restaurants.

What he said; I'd have said $15 or $20 was typical, but $25 (and thus $22, other than not being a very "round" number) would not be out of line, especially at nicer places.

I've noticed here in Los Angeles, a number of better restaurants have moved to $30.

have done a number of $25's. one place did not have a decanter for $25. also one place charged $25 if it was on the wine list, free if not. so, we decanted the bottle into an empty 2 liter wine in a box. the restaurant redecanted quickly, then asked if we wished to take the "bottle" home.

Man that's cheap. In New York, the average is $25, but more recently it's moving up to $35. We're going out to eat next week at a $35 place. It's killing me, but buying an over-priced bottle of wine, or doing by the glass, will kill me more. I win the battle, but do have some scratches.

YES. Find another place more reasonable.

Sounds like most people would say that $15 is reasonable. So is another $7 a deal breaker. For me it's not. Perhaps some could argue it's the principle that matters more.

So here's another question: Should my tip calculation include the corkage fee?

I don't think it should. Any other opinions?

BTW, the restaurant is question is Ponti Seafood in Seattle.

If you receive proper wine service, it definitely should. If the wine is plopped down on the table, and you receive a couple of 99¢ store type glasses for the wine, then it becomes a bit fuzzier (i.e., the wait person cannot help the glassware the restaurant has, but the waitperson certainly can serve your wine in a proper manner as if you purchased it right there - and most, in my experience, do).

If people are paying it, no it's not too much.

The restaurant probably does not really care if people like it or not. If they want wine and the fee is too high, they will buy a bottle from the menu. If they want their special bottle, they will pay the fee. It's not a significant enough amount of people who choose a restaurant by the corkage fee that will make or break them.

Exactly. Since it appears you'll be using a groupoin, the restaurant is going to lose money feeding you ... they need to make it up somewhere :)

Restaurants shouldn't get to claim that the food cost is just for the food (and therefore we must tip, too), then also demand $25 for wine 'service' if it doesn't actually cover any 'service'.

These places get away with charging $25-$30 for the same reason that Starbucks gets away with asking for tips. Americans are too frivolous to pay attention to where their money goes.

I wouldn't pay more than $15 or so for an opportunity loss to the restaurant by bringing my own wine. For the tipping part - that's gone far out of hand in the States.

That's very often discussed on boards of every type and purpose.

What it comes down to, at least to me, is this.

When you pay a corkage fee, the waiter gets nothing of that unless you tip them. They may be doing just as much work as if you ordered a bottle of wine (which you would probably tip on without hesitating, and would be tipping on more than the corkage fee in most places), they are still bringing you glasses, still opening the wine, still pouring it, still icing it, etc.

If you tip on the price of wine when you order a bottle, why would you not tip on the corkage fee if you believe tips are service related? Other than not storing the bottle in their cellar, the service received is exactly the same (or should be)

True - but that's an issue for the waiter and restaurant, no? I'd happily give the $15 corking fee to the waiter and not the restaurant. Why should I pay both entities if only one actually did something?

As a server at a restaurant that gets a fair share of bottles brought in, I've always thought it would be most fair to pay a $20 corkage, with $10 of that going to the house and $10 to the server. Then you wouldn't have to tip additionally unless you felt otherwise inclined.

Chris

I'm on board with splitting the income. $20 still seems excessive. Even using the typical 10-20% tip guideline, your $10 is equivalent to a $50-$100 bottle!

if this is a grand cru, the wine has a $3-400 shelf price. the wine list price would be around $450-600.
if this is a second or third, and not a grand cru, shelf is a bit over $200, and would be on the wine list at around $300-350.
seems to me that $100 would be a reasonable corkage fee.

for the hundred bucks:
bring the bottle in two days in advance.
keep it on its' side as it has been stored.
to start service, have them put it in a cradle, and open it. never with rotation.
smell the decanter and the glasses for detergent. if detergent smell, rinse twice in red wine. if smell is ok, rinse just once. the rinse wine does not have to be expensive, but should be dry.(i have presumed all along this is a red.) does not take much.
check glasses one last time
have the wine candled with the transfer to the decanter. an 86 probably will not throw much sediment, as it is pretty young.
bring a bottle of something you will really like, that you know will be a good substitute if the 86 is off.
25 yo bordeaux is pretty young, but if it has not been stored properly, or with bad luck, have something decent to keep from ruining the evening. the second bottle should be a corkage free, unless it is on the restaurant menu.

They want you to purchase their wine is all. Just purchase something off of the menu. The only way I would consider paying the $22 is if I went to purchase a $3 bottle of wine. Congratulations by the way.

Some people call ahead to have their bottles opened/decanted an hour in advance so they will have breathed properly. And most Bordeaux (even G.C.) are drinkable within 10-15 years. Many even peak then.

I agree that it might seem like a lot for people who haven't often paid corkage fees, but the restaurants don't want you to bring in your own wine. They want you to order off of their list so they can make a profit. The "sweet spot" price should be one that is high enough to prevent people from bringing in their own "non-special" wine, but not so high that it makes people not want to dine there.

Case in point, I worked for a long time at a nicer restaurant that didn't have any corkage. Regular guests would go to the liquor store and buy the exact same bottle of wine as was on our list, come in and drink it, and then not tip at all on the bottle of wine. A corkage fee with some substance would have prevented that.

Chris

That's all well and good if one is planning to drink a 3-5 year-old bottle of wine of the sort that is normally found on restaurant wine lists. But the OP is bringing a 25 year-old classified growth Bordeaux that certainly is worth in the hundreds of dollars at retail. IMHO, most restaurants should feel honored that the OP considers their cuisine to be worthy of his special wine.

I believe that the reasonable corkage fee ought to be somewhere around the expected profit margin (as opposed to revenue) from beverage service at an average table of the restaurant. And I'd be surprised if that number is greater than $15-20 or so per table on average. It ought to be viewed as a means of compensating them for their opportunity cost that they are sacrificing by not getting to sell the patron some alcohol to accompany their meal.

On top of that, tipping on the corkage IS appropriate, because that compensates the server, whereas the corkage compensates the restaurant for their opportunity cost sacrificed by not selling the patron the sort of wine an average table buys.

Of course, there are quite a few restaurants that have recognized the value in cultivating wine enthusiasts as a client base, because they tend to be among the opinion leaders in matters of trendy restaurants and cuisines, and those restaurants do this by offering very economical (say $10-12 a bottle) corkage fees. This sort of corkage pricing at least covers the cost of providing the wine service, while also tending to encourage more repeat business among the wine enthusiast clientele, as well as positive word of mouth from these customers, who, as I stated above, tend to be opinion leaders in terms of creating buzz in the community folks who appreciate good food and wine.

That being said, it's one thing to offer cheap corkage on special bottles, that are unique, and beyond the typical restaurant's ability to stock in their cellar inventory, but it's quite another to offer cheap corkage on any old $12-20 bottle that's currently on sale at the BevMo, and happens also to be on the restaurant's wine list for $30-50. I can certainly see why a restaurant would feel abused in that scenario - as after all, their value added should include not just the cost of serving the wine with proper stemware and wait-staff time, but also in properly choosing the better values among those widely available bottles, and offering good advice as to what wines pair particularly well with the particular dishes that they serve.

As far as feeling honored, I'm sure the chef (if it's a restaurant with a "chef") would feel honored, but the business only cares about money and probably doesn't care too much if you bring in a Grand Cru Burgundy or Beringer White Zin as far as the profit margin goes.

As to the beverage markup, having seen what my various restaurants pay for the wines (about 10% less than liquor store prices on average, unless it's a large chain who has corporate pricing), I would say $20-$30 per bottle for most restaurants would probably be typical. Hence the $20 corkage makes sense to me. But, if I were running a restaurant, I'd make sure we had quality wine glasses and decanters so people would feel that they're getting a value for that cost.

Having one night a week with no corkage could be a promotion to get the more wine savvy to come to the restaurant. But if I were a restaurant owner, it would only be on a night that I needed to drive some more business, as opposed to always having a cheaper corkage fee, but that's just me.

Chris

Hey, as someone who is retired (and hence, every day is a day of leisure), I'm all in favor of $5 corkage on Tuesdays and Wednesdays. I'd be all over it.

It depends on restaurants. Sometimes they change it and sometimes not. It also depends on the type relationship you establish with waiter and other staff on first visit.

$25 is pretty standard around here and I don't eat in Michelin Star type places. God knows what they charge ! I always corkage and I prefer to think of how much I saved, not how much I got nicked. If I give the sommelier a taste, I find the corkage is often waved. My 86s are tasting pretty good right now, but their peak may be in another 10 years IMO. I don't think my 85s are getting any better. It was a softer fruit forward vintage. wj

And your authority on this generalization is?


To answer the question though, $22 seems reasonable and par for the course in a major American city.

I think this depends on what the restaurant actually does. I've seen them come over, no decanter, uncork the bottle, pour into regular glasses without decanting, and leave the bottle for me to pour seconds. In that case, the $20 is a penalty fee for bringing my own bottle.

If they provide a proper decanting service, good stemware, etc, then the fee is for a service and perhaps reasonable.

I appreciate all of the comments including those about the wine service and the Bordeaux wines of 1986. For those who are interested, I probably had about thirty 1986 Bordeaux wines at one time that I bought within a few years of the release date. I took a look tonight and found out I am down to a dozen. Some of the wines had price stickers on them. From what I can tell I paid between $21-$36 for the wines. The storage has been decent but not ideal. They have been stored under my basement stairwell. They have been exposed to 60-65 degree temps most of the time and less than perfect humidity. None of the wines I have tasted have been bad and most have been good to great.

Here's what I have remaining:

Chateau Pichon Longueville Comtesse de Lalande
Chateau Cos D'Estournel
Chateau Talbot
Chateau Lynch Bages
Chateau Meyney
Chateau Leoville Barton
Chateau Gruaud Larose

My wife is a seafood nut who generally chooses bubbles over red any day. I may save my corkage fee for another restaurant experience. I am not worried about the storage conditions other than dealing with a dry cork. The wines still have a youthful appearance. I have a pressurized cork screw to get the tough ones out.

There's quite a few restaurants around Seattle that have very low corkage fees or none at all for the first or first two bottles if they are not on the menu.

I'd rather go to Seastar and pay no corkage than Ponti any day of the week. ^

Some nice stuff there. I've had several of them, including the Cos, Lynch, Leoville Barton, and Gruaud Larose.

Thanks for the tip. Besides Seastar, can you name a few more.

$22 is nothing out of line

The OP is in Seattle?

$22 is odd but not out of line
Cheap places are $10, normal is 15-20.
Nice places 25, 30 all within reason.

People who don't appreciate wine will think a $20 bottle of wine as too expensive.. People who have a collection of 1986 bordeaux probably don't think so. :)

So yah.. $22 is very reasonable if it's a decent place.

From your list. I'd take the Pichon Lalande..

Then they ought to have decent wine :D I wouldn't feel the need to bring my own if they weren't trying to rip me off with bad wine!

Oh, I agree. But some of the people who are against corkage fees maintain that position all the while forgetting that the restaurant has to make a profit too, otherwise you can't enjoy their good food with your good wine. @:-):p

Chris

OTOH, they'd better be able to make SOME kind of a profit on the food regardless... if not, non-drinkers and near-teetotalers like my wife and I (respectively) are gonna be banned. :)

Well, the heavy drinkers among us (yours truly) will happily subsidize your teetotalishness. :D

Chris

i feel that way when i go to va to eat, and all the ripoffs have is va wine. who is really trying to rip you off. wine on most american wine lists are priced at 2xwholesale. there is a restaurant in del ray that is tied to the wine store next door. you can go there, select your bottle, and it will be carried to the restaurant for you. the prices are approximately standard retail. they have a selection of a couple thousand kinds and flavors.

i hardly ever find a wine list that does not have a few "decent" bottles of wine. maybe the problem is with the restaurants you frequent.

i really detest people using the word rip off about a trade from people outside that trade. restaurant is a really tough business(i am not in the restaurant trade)