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LapLap Mar 1, 2012 1:56 am


Originally Posted by lancebanyon (Post 18108549)


Originally Posted by Daawgon (Post 18107982)
Perhaps the USA leads in junk food?

That is exactly the term I should have used in the first place. Is there consensus that the USA is the junk food capital of the world?

Sorry, you are going to have to define what 'junk food' is.
I've already shown that Japan has an equivalent of anything the US has to offer AND it's the birthplace of junk Ramen (The USA's fastest growing Junk food category).
If junk food is unhealthy, salty, cholesterol laden popular food totally unsuitable for daily consumption then Japan still has the USA beaten. By a very long shot. Have you SEEN what happens to a bowl of real ramen when it gets cold? (shudder!)

aster Mar 1, 2012 2:56 am


Originally Posted by LapLap (Post 18108862)
If junk food is unhealthy, salty, cholesterol laden popular food totally unsuitable for daily consumption then Japan still has the USA beaten. By a very long shot. Have you SEEN what happens to a bowl of real ramen when it gets cold? (shudder!)

What happens to it? :)

What surprises me about Japanese food is the terrible, nasty white stuff with tiny spots of red that they refer to as beef. Not only is it gross, but it's expensive too...

LapLap Mar 1, 2012 3:15 am


Originally Posted by aster (Post 18108970)
What happens to it? :)

What surprises me about Japanese food is the terrible, nasty white stuff with tiny spots of red that they refer to as beef. Not only is it gross, but it's expensive too...

I used to come across people like you in Spain - Parma ham was popular in the UK in the 80s and visitors to Spain offered the very best quality jamon would turn their noses up at it and peel away the strips of white fat. I bet they had no idea how much the stuff would cost in their own currency just a decade or so later :)
So yes, I imagine a bowl of real ramen left to cool and congeal so that it formed an inch or two of solid fat/lard wouldn't appeal to you either.
If you walk around central Tokyo and keep your eyes open you'll see the fat collection services at work. All that fat and grease could never be poured into the sewers or they'd become congested and cease working. Instead the lard is regularly collected by dedicated companies. There's PLENTY of it around.

Sweet Willie Mar 1, 2012 9:18 am


Originally Posted by LapLap (Post 18108862)
Sorry, you are going to have to define what 'junk food' is.

agreed

aster Mar 1, 2012 8:27 pm


Originally Posted by LapLap (Post 18109021)
I used to come across people like you in Spain - Parma ham was popular in the UK in the 80s and visitors to Spain offered the very best quality jamon would turn their noses up at it and peel away the strips of white fat. I bet they had no idea how much the stuff would cost in their own currency just a decade or so later :)

That's the thing, I don't care how much something costs, I only care if it's good quality food, tastes good, etc. Some people would munch on pet food if you repacked it, priced it way high, and said that people from some remote part of Japan spend most of their income on this treasured delicacy. :)

So if I see some nasty beef that's 95% white and 5% red, then I'll give it a pass. Instead I'll go for the cherry-red, virtually fat-free beef right next to it. And if the Japanese consumer drives up the price of the former and helps keep the price of the latter at a lower level, then that's welcome news.

I like Spanish jamon, and yes - I'll peel away at the fatty white strips each time.

LapLap Mar 2, 2012 12:43 am


Originally Posted by aster (Post 18115057)
That's the thing, I don't care how much something costs, I only care if it's good quality food, tastes good, etc. Some people would munch on pet food if you repacked it, priced it way high, and said that people from some remote part of Japan spend most of their income on this treasured delicacy. :)

So if I see some nasty beef that's 95% white and 5% red, then I'll give it a pass. Instead I'll go for the cherry-red, virtually fat-free beef right next to it. And if the Japanese consumer drives up the price of the former and helps keep the price of the latter at a lower level, then that's welcome news.

I like Spanish jamon, and yes - I'll peel away at the fatty white strips each time.

Aaah, thought so! :)
There is a bit more to some of the high quality foods that come into "stuff you don't like" category.
For instance, the fat you peel away from jamon iberico is not the same as that from other kinds of jam (even jamon serrano). It's high in oleic acid and eating it regularly will lower bad cholesterol and raise good cholesterol levels in your blood stream. I understand that eating that fat with the discarded meat actually makes that meat healthier and more nutritious.
I'm not so familiar with the properties of the Japanese meats but I'm under the impression that a similar phenomenon is at work. The best and most marbled fatty meats have the least effect in raising bad cholesterol levels.
I know the Spanish jamon properties are related to the pigs' diets (the bush acorns/bellotas being the magic ingredient) so can't comment more on high grade marbled beef. But this isn't simply an Emperor's clothes scenario. The premium here does mean something. Granted, it's not to everyone's taste. But that expensive fat I've just discussed is nothing like the lard congealed on a bowl of unfinished ramen.

braslvr Mar 2, 2012 12:57 am

Interesting about the ramen. I've had lots of it in Japan, and only ever seen a few tiny droplets of oil on the surface. Not that I don't believe you, but this must be a different type of ramen that you speak of. I don't think I ever spent less than Y180 for a bowl, and usually around Y250 if that makes any difference.

Gigantor Mar 2, 2012 1:16 am

Singapore... no contest.

In fact, there is no close second.

Catalunya tapas comes in distant third.

LapLap Mar 2, 2012 2:34 pm


Originally Posted by braslvr (Post 18115987)
Interesting about the ramen. I've had lots of it in Japan, and only ever seen a few tiny droplets of oil on the surface. Not that I don't believe you, but this must be a different type of ramen that you speak of. I don't think I ever spent less than Y180 for a bowl, and usually around Y250 if that makes any difference.

There are lots of 'schools' of ramen and plenty are lighter (sappari) in style. I was referring mostly to tonkotsu ramen, one of the most popular styles. An extreme example is from the infamous Ramen Jiro chain. The broth here is so fatty and greasy it turns to lard before you can finish eating it. Here's some photographic testimony.
http://www.ramenate.com/2010/01/ramen-jiro-ogikubo.html
Imagine this stuff allowed to go cold!

braslvr Mar 2, 2012 8:26 pm


Originally Posted by LapLap (Post 18120219)
There are lots of 'schools' of ramen and plenty are lighter (sappari) in style. I was referring mostly to tonkotsu ramen, one of the most popular styles. An extreme example is from the infamous Ramen Jiro chain. The broth here is so fatty and greasy it turns to lard before you can finish eating it. Here's some photographic testimony.
http://www.ramenate.com/2010/01/ramen-jiro-ogikubo.html
Imagine this stuff allowed to go cold!

Wow! No, I have never seen ramen even remotely similar to that, thank god.

Studio54 Mar 2, 2012 9:50 pm

For me Hong Kong, followed closely by Thailand. I would include mainland China in that list but unfortunately you never quite know whether what the street vendor is selling is actually what he/she says it is.

aster Mar 2, 2012 10:32 pm


Originally Posted by LapLap (Post 18115941)
AFor instance, the fat you peel away from jamon iberico is not the same as that from other kinds of jam (even jamon serrano). It's high in oleic acid and eating it regularly will lower bad cholesterol and raise good cholesterol levels in your blood stream.

The best and most marbled fatty meats have the least effect in raising bad cholesterol levels.

Do you believe that it's better to eat a lump of fat (from meat) than to cut that part off and leave it? I don't think it'll do you much good, even if it's "special" meat fat as you say.

Seriously, a steak made out of cherry-red, super lean beef is bound to be better for you than a gross slab of 95% fat that doesn't even resemble beef any more.

LapLap Mar 3, 2012 2:45 am


Originally Posted by aster (Post 18122700)
Do you believe that it's better to eat a lump of fat (from meat) than to cut that part off and leave it? I don't think it'll do you much good, even if it's "special" meat fat as you say.

Seriously, a steak made out of cherry-red, super lean beef is bound to be better for you than a gross slab of 95% fat that doesn't even resemble beef any more.

certainly from the Jason iberico it is. I've seen lots of studies and research to support this, it's just that almost everything I've read has been in Spanish.
I saw something on British TV recently that explained something equally counterintuitive about the fat in dairy products. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sn/humanbody/tr.../calcium.shtml
Just as it takes a leap of faith to accept that eating benecol margarine on a daily basis is beneficial or that cheese can be a slimming aid, it's the same with accepting that the supremely fatty slices of bellota fed free range ham are good for your heart.

WC_EEND Mar 3, 2012 2:07 pm

I'd like to nominate Belgium for this, because of the sheer number of "frituren/friteries" over here and having turned baking French Fries/Chips into an art.

aster Mar 3, 2012 9:39 pm


Originally Posted by LapLap (Post 18123377)
certainly from the Jason iberico it is. I've seen lots of studies and research to support this, it's just that almost everything I've read has been in Spanish.
I saw something on British TV recently that explained something equally counterintuitive about the fat in dairy products. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sn/humanbody/tr.../calcium.shtml
Just as it takes a leap of faith to accept that eating benecol margarine on a daily basis is beneficial or that cheese can be a slimming aid, it's the same with accepting that the supremely fatty slices of bellota fed free range ham are good for your heart.

Cheese is certainly not going to be a slimming aid. :)

Most of the funny advertising used is based on the fact that certain types of fats are better than others (such as vegetable ones, polyunsaturated... as opposed to saturated animal fats), which is not to say that they can be treated as good food. Your body needs a bit of everything, but for instance you can have 6x as many apples and not worry too much about the extra carbs, whereas gobbling 6x as much fat - even of the better variety - is still going to be a major no-no.


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