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What knives to buy?
Time to upgrade some of my equipment. I'm no more than an intermediate level cook so I don't want to spend a fortune, but I do need to get some new, decent knives for the kitchen.
* What brands would you recommend (again, not GBP100+ uber-fashionable Japanese knives, something a little more practical)? * What types are your must haves? Thanks! PS I'd prefer something I can buy in the UK but I will be in the US later this year so could easily wait to get something special. |
Originally Posted by Swanhunter
(Post 16033839)
Time to upgrade some of my equipment. I'm no more than an intermediate level cook so I don't want to spend a fortune, but I do need to get some new, decent knives for the kitchen.
* What brands would you recommend (again, not GBP100+ uber-fashionable Japanese knives, something a little more practical)? * What types are your must haves? Thanks! PS I'd prefer something I can buy in the UK but I will be in the US later this year so could easily wait to get something special. As a minimum, I would advise a set that includes: A pairing knife A small knife with a serrated blade (often called a utility knife) A boning knife A large Chef's knife Others will have their own views and the most obvious omission is a long bladed kitchen knife. I have little use for one as I find a utility knife or a Chef's knife will do the job. Most sets will come with a steel must I would advise buying a wet stone to keep your knives really sharp. Lakeland sell a three stage wet stone set with grooves to ensure that your knives hit the stone at exactly the right angle. |
Hi,
I also use Henkels Four Star among others .... but now mostly use a Kyocera ceramic knife as the chefs knife around 8 inches or so. It has to be kept carefully or it'll break but it is very sharp and keeps it's edge. It can only be used for slicing not for say jointing or cutting through bone. I'd also say a paring knife Kyocera FK Series - Carbon Infused Ceramic Blades 18cm - can be used for meat or tomatos! A cheap but long bread knife Henkels Chefs knife |
I'll let celebrity chef Anthony Bourdain take it from here - this is from his book, Kitchen Confidential (it's one of the excerpts on amazon.com):
You need, for God's sake, a decent chef's knife. No con foisted on the general public is so atrocious, so wrongheaded, or so widely believed as the one that tells you you need a full set of specialized cutlery in various sizes. I wish sometimes I could go through the kitchens of amateur cooks everywhere just throwing knives out from their drawers - all those medium-size 'utility' knives, those useless serrated things you see advertised on TV, all that hard-to-sharpen stainless-steel garbage, those ineptly designed slicers - not one of the damn things could cut a tomato. Please believe me, here's all you will ever need in the knife department: ONE good chef's knife, as large as is comfortable for your hand. Brand name? Okay, most talented amateurs get a boner buying one of the old-school professional high-carbon stainless knives from Germany or Austria, like a Henkel or Wusthof, and those are fine knives, if heavy. High carbon makes them slightly easier to sharpe! n, and stainless keeps them from getting stained and corroded. They look awfully good in the knife case at the store, too, and you send the message to your guests when flashing a hundred-dollar hunk of Solingen steel that you take your cooking seriously. But do you really need something so heavy? So expensive? So difficult to maintain (which you probably won't)? Unless you are really and truly going to spend fifteen minutes every couple of days working that blade on an oiled carborundum stone, followed by careful honing on a diamond steel, I'd forgo the Germans. Most of the professionals I know have for years been retiring their Wusthofs and replacing them with the lightweight, easy-to-sharpen and relatively inexpensive vanadium steel Global knives, a very good Japanese product which has - in addition to its many other fine qualities - the added attraction of looking really cool. Global makes a lot of knives in different sizes, so what do you need? One chef's knife. This should cut just about anything you might work with, from a shallot to a watermelon, an onion to a sirloin strip. Like a pro, you should use the tip of the knife for the small stuff, and the area nearer the heel for the larger. This isn't difficult; buy a few rutabagas or onions - they're cheap - and practice on them. Nothing will set you apart from the herd quicker than the ability to handle a chef's knife properly. If you need instruction on how to handle a knife without lopping off a finger, I recommend Jacques Pepin's La Technique. Okay, there are a couple of other knives you might find useful. I carry a flexible boning knife, also made by the fine folks at Global, because I fillet the occasional fish, and because with the same knife I can butcher whole tenderloins, bone out legs of lamb, French-cut racks of veal and trim meat. If your butcher is doing all the work for you you can probably live without one. A paring knife comes in handy once in a while, if you find yourself tourneing vegetables, fluting mushrooms and doing the kind of microsurgery that my old pal Dimitri used to excel at. But how often do you do that? A genuinely useful blade, however, and one that is increasingly popular with my cronies in the field, is what's called an offset serrated knife . It's basically a serrated knife set into an ergonomic handle; it looks like a 'Z' that's been pulled out and elongated. This is a truly cool item which, once used, becomes indispensable. As the handle is not flush with the blade, but raised away from the cutting surface, you can use it not only for your traditional serrated blade needs - like slicing bread, thick-skinned tomatoes and so on - but on your full line of vegetables, spuds, meat and even fish. My sous-chef uses his for just about everything. F. Dick makes a good one for about twenty-five bucks. It's stainless steel, but since it's serrated it doesn't really matter; after a couple of years of use, if the teeth start to wear down, you just buy yourself another one. |
I have Henkels which have stayed sharp for probably 10 years. I have a sharpening steel which I use occasionally. I have a bunch but the ones I use the most are a 4 inch paring knife and a chef's knife. I would like a larger chef's knife. I have a bread knife and a fruit knife. I also have a cleaver which I thought would be useful in chopping veggies. I could easily get by with the chef's knife and the paring knife.
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We too have a set of Henckels Four Star knives. We love them! Well, Mr. Kipper loves them. I've been forbidden from using them most times, because they're that sharp. After I sliced my finger once with them, Mr. Kipper suggested that perhaps he do most of the cutting in the family. :)
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I finally bought a mid-range Japanese chef's knife a few months ago. It would make a mohel proud. I cannot believe how well it slices. That plus the sashimi knife came to about $200 together. I take care to wash/dry right after use and put back in the box so it doesn't get dinged up easily.
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Agree with all of the comments, one consideration for mid-range every day use knives is staining; Henckels has the patented Friodur (ice hardening) process which adds chromium carbide to carbon steel, making is somewhat stainless while still holding an edge well. The japanese knives often have a sharper edge but will stain and even rust if not carefully cleaned, while the Henckels can be abused a fair bit. As mentioned, the ceramic knives are great -- really incomparable for slicing -- but will shatter if stressed and can't be used hard.
Finally, I have an ultra-cheap Cuisinart 6 inch chef knife (made by Henckels but without the brand name), cost about $10-20, and it is superb, but with maybe 10% of the metal content of the better knives (thin steel blade, still full tang); so that is another approach for everyday cooking. |
Agree with Bourdain. Global knives are fantastic. Best I have ever owned.
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I'm also a Henkels Four Star user, but bought a Global after reading about them in Kitchen Confidential and have now started buying Global knives for my Mom as gifts. (I grew weary of her dull knives.) She loves the Global knives I've gotten for her.
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I own three Global knives; a G2 cooks knife and a G5 vegetable chopper, which cover 99% of tasks, and I also have a small GS8 peeling knife for tricky handheld tasks. All three are getting on for 10 years old and as good now as the day I bought them.
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Originally Posted by Anthony Bourdain
Most of the professionals I know have for years been retiring their Wusthofs and replacing them with the lightweight, easy-to-sharpen and relatively inexpensive vanadium steel Global knives, a very good Japanese product which has - in addition to its many other fine qualities - the added attraction of looking really cool.
That said, I recently inherited this Global 5 1/2" vegetable knife and it instantly became my favorite knife. But at $80, it's not cheap for a mid-size knife. |
I've owned a sushi restaurant and been a chef for 6 years now and the only knife I use is my Global Sashimi knife. Great brand, very easy to maintain and sharpen...
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You also might consider a Chinese cleaver to hack away at certain things when you don't care as much about blade damage.
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Sorry if I take this off topic but I thought this might be worthy for the Henkel fans.
Their US distribution facility is about 40 min north of NYC in Elmsford, NY. Every 3 or 4 months they have a warehouse sale where they sell pretty much everything...returns, open boxes, individual pieces from a set that had one damaged piece, etc. The knives are literally pennies on the dollar. It might be worth a weekend day trip up the Hudson if anyone's looking for a deal on a knife. I'm not sure if they advertise on their website or not. I usually just see the sign when I drive by. If anyone's interested I'll post here the next time I see it. |
Originally Posted by BigBopper
(Post 16035492)
Their US distribution facility is about 40 min north of NYC in Elmsford, NY. Every 3 or 4 months they have a warehouse sale where they sell pretty much everything...returns, open boxes, individual pieces from a set that had one damaged piece, etc. The knives are literally pennies on the dollar. It might be worth a weekend day trip up the Hudson if anyone's looking for a deal on a knife.
(And there are pennies literally sitting on dollar bills? Amazing! :p) |
Search for Henckels, I know we have had this discussion once before, if not several times.
All of our knives are Henckels or Wusthof's higher end (they also have some not as good stuff from China). We are lucky though, their warehouse store is like fifteen minutes away and twice a year they have some incredible sales so we can add to the collection for a fraction of retail cost. |
Originally Posted by BigBopper
(Post 16035492)
Sorry if I take this off topic but I thought this might be worthy for the Henkel fans.
Their US distribution facility is about 40 min north of NYC in Elmsford, NY. Every 3 or 4 months they have a warehouse sale where they sell pretty much everything...returns, open boxes, individual pieces from a set that had one damaged piece, etc. The knives are literally pennies on the dollar. It might be worth a weekend day trip up the Hudson if anyone's looking for a deal on a knife. I'm not sure if they advertise on their website or not. I usually just see the sign when I drive by. If anyone's interested I'll post here the next time I see it. |
Check the New England Forum in May or June, I have been posting the sales at their Norwalk Connecticut Warehouse or whatever it is (they just moved there a year and a half ago) when I hear about them.
Their six inch cleaver that lists for about $100, sells usually for $80? Five dollars at the December 09 sale. Guess what all our relatives and neighbors got for Christmas? Not everything is at that kind of discount, but we have never left without a bag full of stuff. Last year the sales were June 3 to 5 and I believe the second weekend in December. They have a factory store that is open during the week, but not on weekends except for the sale. No clue how the regular store prices are. |
Originally Posted by cordelli
(Post 16036143)
Check the New England Forum in May or June, I have been posting the sales at their Norwalk Connecticut Warehouse or whatever it is (they just moved there a year and a half ago) when I hear about them.
Sadly, cross-posting is not allowed, even when it makes sense. |
I find knives to be very personal, so I would see they feel in your hand first. For example, I like a heavier knife, so mine are mostly high-end Wusthofs. I also love my Deglon chef knife and serrated knife. A good friend of mine who is a serious home cook uses Sabatier because they are lighter.
I have too many knives in my kitchen because I'm a knife geek, but as others have said before, a good chef knife, serrated blade, boning knife and paring knife are really all you need. I do love my cleaver though! |
John Lewis own brand for me. There's undoubtedly better out there, but they work a treat and are very well balanced.
I use the chef's knife about 80% of the time, and the bread knife about 15%! |
Originally Posted by nerd
(Post 16036362)
If only you could also post a note in the DiningBuzz forum (no one visits the NE forum) since it would be helpful to both audiences.
Sadly, cross-posting is not allowed, even when it makes sense. Pretty much anybody visiting the New England Forum unless they are new to it knows the big sales are June and December. When I get the mailing I'll mention it here. |
Cutco knife user for 15 years now.
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Whatever. Just keep it sharp. :D
I have a Le Creuset chef's knife which I use 90% of the time, and the other 10% a teeny little 'Kitchen Devil' knife which was in the drawer at home when I lived at home, so must be 20+ years old... useful for small stuff. They both get sharpened weekly, just using a kitchen devil 'sharpener for idiots'. Honestly, whatever feels comfortable in your hand, and keep it sharp. so it doesn't sting when you chop the top of your finger off, the first thing you notice is the blood everywhere |
The best knife is the one that you feel is the most comfortable in your hand and can be sharpened an a regular basis.
I live near the Zwilling facility in Hawthorne, NY and each December they have a factory sale, so I've been able to get some good deals on some of their high-end products. To each his/her own, but they suit me fine and take regular honing and periodic sharpening very well. |
a Henckels DO?
Since I at least am drooling over the thought of going to a warehouse sale at the Henckels facility, and it seems like there are at least a few of you who live not too far away, what about having a DO when they have one of their sales? :D
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Originally Posted by kipper
(Post 16038844)
Since I at least am drooling over the thought of going to a warehouse sale at the Henckels facility, and it seems like there are at least a few of you who live not too far away, what about having a DO when they have one of their sales? :D
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If you have a kitchen store near you that offers classes, I would try that first. I took a knife skills class at a local "Sur la Table" after I bought my knives and learned so much!!
I now have a set of Shun knives that I will never let go. I found the Japanese knives fit my hands better. There is a difference in the angle of the blade on a Japanese knife so if/when you have them sharpened, be sure the person knows the difference. Mine has a much more narrow angle than the German knives and holds it's edge longer. I would recommend you start with one good Chef's knife to see how you like it before buying a set. I use that knife more than any other. Also take a class if you can, the one I took was invaluable. I also found out I had been holding my knife wrong all these years. It took a while to relearn the new grip, but I have much more control and am dicing onions like a professional chef now! |
Originally Posted by dchristiva
(Post 16038863)
Sounds like a good plan. The Zwilling warehouse sale in Hawthorne is typically in early Dec.
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I'm guessing Easton is about 90 minutes from me. There must be two warehouses in the region....a New England one near Cordelli and a NY area one near me.
I'd be more than happy to post when the Ny area one has a sale. FYI-this one is located on route 9A in Elmsford, NY about 5 minutes from where 287 and 87 merge before the Tappan Zee bridge. |
I'd happily go to both sales, assuming they aren't the same day. :)
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They moved part of their operation to Norwalk, CT a few years ago, so that's the one I'm referring to as the New England one. It's on Wilson Ave in Norwalk, I want to say 333 Wilson AVe but I'm not 100% sure.
I may have to hit the Elmsford one too next year, I take the train in from White Plains every day (wife works in Pleasantville). |
Originally Posted by skchin
(Post 16037853)
Cutco knife user for 15 years now.
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The ultra-expensive knives have 2 attributes that make them worth the money for professional use: they can cut in a single stroke, while lesser knives require multiple; and they can do it thousands of times. For home use that is rarely of any importance, though it can affect the joy of using the knife. For a professional chef, it can be indispensable. I realized this when chatting to a chef friend of mine, who has one knife just for cutting roast beef, uses it about once a month and it cost just under $1,000. It is used for "silver service" at large events; the waiters line up in front of him, holding a silver tray with a single piece of roast beef, and say a number (how many people at their table). The chef then cuts the beef into that many slices. He does 10 trays per minute this way -- or less than 1 second per slice. The knife is so expensive because it is that sharp, and also has special sides so that the meat does not stick (no suction). Unless you plan to serve 1000 people for dinner, there is no value in owning such a knife at home. An extreme example of how special knives can be, and why there will never be consensus on what is the "best" knife, or if that knife costing 10x or even 100x as much is actually "better".
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How about something from Hattori Hanzo?
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I know you don't want £100 knives but in my opinion you only need one decent knife, along with a cheap paring knife and maybe a bread knife.
I recently dropped my 10 year old Henckels Santoku on my tiled kitchen floor and a big chunk of the handle came off. I glued it back on but it no longer "feels" right. I decided to replace it with a Tojiro Senkou Santoku. It was razor sharp out of the box, scarily so. It feels perfect in the hand with the weight balanced towards the handle which I prefer. Prepping vegetables has become a joy rather than a chore. For 90% of my knifework this is the only tool i'll ever need. Did I mention it is beautiful too? http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/i...2681&s=kitchen |
I would only buy ceramic knives today (forget metal ones), like those manufactured by Kyocera. They are absolutely fantastic and "lightsaber sharp."
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Originally Posted by aster
(Post 16043306)
I would only buy ceramic knives today (forget metal ones), like those manufactured by Kyocera. They are absolutely fantastic and "lightsaber sharp."
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I have to agree with Bourdain on the offset serrated, bread knife. I have a Spydco ceramic sharpener that'll work on serrated, so getting dull not a problem.
What it shines at is cutting stuff so soft a straight blade will bind: bread, obviously, but also stuff like an overcooked fowl that'll fall apart under a straight blade. |
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