Bread making -- recipes, best machines, techniques, etc.
 

I made bread yesterday (seemed the best thing to do on a snowy, gray February day) and while the results were delicious, it took too long for me to want to do it with any regularity.

When I was a kid, we had a bread maker that was great - throw in the ingredients and forget about it until it's ready. Now that I've reacquainted myself with the joy of homemade bread, how will I go back to store bought?

Who here has a bread maker? What brands/models do people recommend? I saw on Amazon a Zojirushi model that got very high reviews.

The Panasonics all consistently seemed to be rated best.

Bread making is a slow process machine or not. The best breads made manually are from sour dough which arguably can take a hundred years or more ...... so machine pread taking 4 hours plus is no issue!:) The great thing is that you bung it all in and it makes perfect bread EVERY time.

The secret with a machine is to get into a routine so for example if you want bread every morning you prep it last thing at night. Also develop your own recipes. It takes some time to do but well worthwhile. I developed my own cholla recipe which is very rich (has egg, honey, milk etc) and once developed you then have your own perfect loaf. It seems to last without going stale and is great with smoke salmon and also great toasted.

I have an old one, a cast off from my parents.

I don't rate it for classic bread but it is a good way to use up leftovers and I like making breads with things like chick peas (very filling) and vegetables such as beetroot or carrots. I tend to use it most on the few occasions we have leftover rice. We love the fact that we can make waste food taste good - white bread made with rice is particularly delicious.

I have an basic unsophisticated Hinari model, the bonus is that as it's about 500watts, more powerful than a KitchenAid, I recently discovered it makes beautiful mochi quite effortlessly ^

I'm still using the Breadman that I bought at least 12 years ago at a department store sale - in the area of $75, if I remember correctly. It's used about once a week for dough making, less often for bread baking, as I use it mainly for either pizza or french bread dough.

I don't. Kneading is one of the best forms of stress relief - why give the pleasure of it to a machine?

We have a Zojirushi. It's great. We first got it when my wife wanted to cut Bromide from her diet. Most commercial bread uses bromated flour. King Arthur flour is not bromated, and I recommend it highly if you're making your own bread.

We also have a Zojirushi rice cooker. I really like it.

joe

Exactly. What's up with the need for these kinds of uni-taskers? Bread machines, rice cookers, etc.?

Second thread - same post. There's no law which says you have to "get it":D

The Zojirushi is the very best I believe. I have a cheap-o that I bought on a whim for 59€ at LIDL a couple of years ago. The printing has all worn off the front of it so it's no longer clear which cycle does what, but I remember that number 8 is the dough cycle and I use that a couple of times a week - pizza dough, cinnamon rolls, etc. King Arthur Flour's blog has tons of recipes and ideas for using one: http://www.kingarthurflour.com/blog/tag/bread-machine/

We had one we used for ages till we moved, it was OK, but it didn't fit the counter space at the time, so it's probably still in a box somewhere in the basement or garage.

It had some type of delay button, so we could put the stuff in when we left, and at noon or whatever it would kick in and finish just as we got home. Had to make a well in the flour to keep the yeast from the liquid or something, it's been a while.

It will probably never see the light of day again though, there's a great bakery a few miles away that makes wonderful old world breads, so every weekend we just buy there. We prefer the hard crust bread, something a machine isn't that great at.

i bought my wife and my mother in law a a Zojirushi from amazon. both get run once a day, and have been in use for a couple 3 years. most of the flour is king arthur. wife even shops for sales of king arthur.

both make special breads for people with dietary problems in addition to specialty breads with non standard grain flours

I love having a breadmaker, although it's not a perfect adaptation to good bread - decent flavor (to my taste) takes two passes, a wet pass on the dough cycle to make sponge and then a pass with more flour to actually knead and make the dough (and usually bake it if I'm feeling lazy, as I usually am - doesn't produce as nice a result as a hot oven and a stone, but it's a lot less work.)

I've got a single-paddle model, a Breadman of about 13-15 years old, whenever they were finally dropping under $100. The dual-paddle models (eg the full-size Zojirushis, although I think they are a few others) look really nice.

Informative response. Care to explain the appeal of something that only does one job? What's wrong with an oven? I'm guessing nothing based on the fact that you couldn't explain the value of a bread machine.

Strange question. Lot's of things you own have a single use.

But, if you bothered to follow the responses to the same question you posted elsewhere you would have discovered I tried to answer your question.

But ..... as I said .... you don't have to "get it" it does for some and doesn't do for others.

An oven only bakes the bread; the bread machine handles most of the lifecycle of bread production in an automated manner (the only manual part left is measuring the ingredients!)

Making bread with a bread machine is a 5-10 minute loading process, and then the machine handles everything for 3 or so hours. Making bread without the bread machine, even if you've got a food processor or stand mixer with a dough hook is a whole bunch of 5-10 minute process (or much longer for a few of them, with manual knead) spread over several hours.

If that time saved doesn't seem of value to you, or if the quality of the bread produced doesn't seem better for you than what comes out of a bag at the store[*] then a bread machine is not for you.

(* that's even quicker for those of us who don't have to get in a car to go to the store, although I could see the bread machine being quicker for those who do)

To the more general point of "only does one job," why do people still buy MP3 players when you can now buy a smartphone or a little wifi tablet? Sometimes a more specialized tool can be better at the particular job (in the case of a bread maker, doing more of it), or it can be cheaper, more portable, etc (both of those in the case of an MP3 player OR the breadmaker), and one may not need the more versatile tool or see it worthwhile to own both.

i have a huge number of one task machines. drill, chain saw, jig saw, circular saw, big chain saw, big drill, computer, automoble, dump truck, shot gun, 22 caliber rifle, pistol, color printer, b&w printer, corkscrew. could do it all with a screwdriver and a bmf hammer. for cooking,coffee maker, waffle iron, grill, toaster, oven could do it all with just fire from sticks.

since the breadmaker saves an hour of time a day, have a bread maker.

I get where you're coming from.
I was given my breadmachine by my parents because I was living somewhere without an oven. in that context it was great. But standard bread isn't that delicious with a breadmaker and it isn't every day we have leftover grains and beans or vegetables to make bread with so once we moved to a house with an oven the breadmaker started to get used less and less. However. it was because I've found this additional use for it (as a mochi maker, something impossible to make with my own efforts) the breadmaker has gained a place on the kitchen workshop.
For me, the breadmaker isn't a unitasker and that's why I keep it to hand even though I don't use it daily for making bread.

It's different with the rice machine, the key to that is it keeps the rice hot for several hours. For those of us who rinse the rice in several changes of water first, then leave it to drain for an hour, then soak for an hour and THEN cook it there is a tremendous benefit in only doing this once a day. Our main problem is that it isn't a unitasker but we find it difficult to give up the rice function in order to use it as a slowcooker. So that's the predicament of getting a useful unitasking machine with multitasking options. We're seriously considering getting a second rice cooker to free up the first and allow us to use the alternative functions (slowcooking, yoghurt making, rice sprouting, etc)

Bowing to my family's bread preferences I've now found another use for our breadmaker. Its very good at making dough for breads made with the yudane (or tangzhong) method. I definitely wouldn't have the patience to make this kind of dough by hand as it's particularly laborious compared to other breads - lots of gluten, so particularly light and fluffy. I shape and cook the finished dough in a regular oven.

I guess out breadmaker fulfills the role of a KitchenAid in other homes. I prefer it as it has considerably more grunt than this kind of mixer. The cooking feature has become a bonus rather than the primary function for us.

My wife bought a bread maker a year ago......it's never been out of the cupboard for the last 9 months. :rolleyes:

Yes it made very nice bread (when she did it right) but so does the baker down the road. If you have one I say support your local baker.....not only will it be quicker and cheaper but the walk will do you good as well. ^

Hope bread is cheap where you are. The artisanal bakeries in my area are charging CAD 4-6 a loaf and you can only eat so much before it goes stale.

Most important thing in a breadmaker is one that pre-warms ingredients. A former colleague of my partner has a B&D machine (she uses it for mixing and kneading only) will knead and raise the dough twice before my partner's Hitachi(!) can raise it once, both started at the same time but the B&D waits to prewarm.

Or you could warm the bread bin up yourself and/or alter the temperature of the wet ingredients to approximate the 80F/28C you'll be after. Very simple.
I always make sure my bread bin is piping hot by pouring in boiling water, emptying and drying it before adding mochi rice.
Too many features could get in the way and hinder what I decide I need my breadmaker for, rather than what a focus group assumes I will want.

And to HIDDY - good luck getting Japanese style bread quickly and cheaply. All the Japanese people I've been feeding lately prefer what I've been baking than what they remember from Japan. I worked out that the cost of a loaf for us is about 60p each and the yudane element means it stays fresh for at least three days. The only way to get better milk bread than mine is to pay US$4.80/£3 a loaf (a small one) in Tokyo.

For years I had a DAK bread machine and loved it. The DAK was round and squat so naturally the kids named it the R2D2 bread maker. Unfortunately the loaves came out round, too - not quite like loaves we're used to from the store, but still quite tasty. The kids, though, just didn't want to take sandwiches to school made with round slices, so had to buy traditional bread just for them.

Eventually the Dak died, as all good appliances must do. I miss it, but have never replaced it, largely because I no longer have space in my kitchen to put a breadmaker. But for those who do have a breadmaker, half the fun is experimenting with non-traditional ingredients. I had my share of real disasters that way, but also some real winners.

Silly I know....but I never imagined that the Japanese ate bread.

Yes I now realise that not everyone is as fortunate as me to have a baker round the corner who still uses a wood fired oven. Most people here still buy bread twice a day so it's always fresh and is also pretty cheap. Unfortunately that will likely change in the years to come as the supermarkets take over.

A bread maker is certainly a good idea if you don't have close access to a decent bakers. Ours makes a decent pizza dough as well IIRC.

i had 3 kind of bread machines, 2 of them really old and brandless, the last one is a Kenwood, i am happy with it, but i think no matter what machine you buy, they do the same delicious bread, if you succeed to know it, and love it. Use your own recipes, because the recipes which come with the machines, are disgusting.

I have a US-market Zojirushi but our Japanese friends say that only the Japanese-market breadmakers do the job (and they say Panasonic is the best).

I've been trying to bake white bread for ages but nothing I do ever comes close to the retail Yamazaki white bread in Japan and the US (Yamazaki also sells in my neighborhood in the DC area under the Vie de France label). I'd be interested in your recipe for replicating Japanese bread.

InThailand
 

Took ours to www.baanyanuiseaview.com. Fresh bread for guests every day. Impressed my inlaws easy n fun ten mins of prep 3hrs later great bread I know of some real estate agents that run them to give show homes that homely feel When I feel the need to kneed I kneed but not that needy@:-)

It's this one:
http://en.christinesrecipes.com/2010...ese-style.html

I follow the blogger's suggestion of having the bread maker knead through a cycle to then reset the machine and have it go through the cycle again.

Also, I make the yudane/tangzhong with just full fat milk and flour - makes a stiffer tangzhong than with flour and water.
I've substituted the 86grams of caster sugar with 60gms of honey with good results. My next experiment will be substitute the sugar with condensed milk, especially as I can't get hold of milk essence or full fat milk powder. (I think I can get away with substituting more liquid ingredients as the tangzhong made with milk is less runny than the flour+water roux)

Yesterday I made the bread with just the all milk tangzhong modification and then brushed caramel onto the dough each time I folded it before rolling it all up. I ended up with a milky bread which only rose a very little less than the other batch I made without the caramel. As a result we had a bread with very pretty caramel swirls inside. (caramel was made by melting sugar and adding milk and a touch of butter once golden to then reduce a little). It was a big hit with my family.
I'd never say that this recipe yielded Hokkaido milk breads as good as these:
http://mont-thabor.jp/pan/pan00.html
But it is better than most of the milk breads from Japanese bakeries.

Thanks LapLap - had to google what tangzhong was but can't wait to try it out

OMNI Bread Baking Clinic
 

Like many (apparently) I have once again taken up bread baking. It's on hold for now until I can find some flour...everyone is sold out. Yesterday I made my first loaf from my new bread book ( ) and am once again disappointed. It tastes good but the interior structure is too many tiny bubbles and it's not the light, airy creation the book shows.

I know the problem is I really don't understand how to shape the loaf without squishing all the bubbles out of it. The book (and everything else I've read) talks about folding the dough and making it have a tight surface that seals in the gases and helps it hold its shape but I just can't manage it and have no idea what I'm doing wrong. I'd love to take a bread class and have someone who knows what they're doing show me how to do it, or watch me and tell me what I'm doing wrong. The pictures in the book make it look so neat and tidy, like with just a few folds you create this neat, tidy, perfect little ball of dough.

Also the book has you bake the bread in a Dutch oven, so the steam from the dough collects to provide a nice crust. I didn't know how to get the dough in the pot (the book just says "carefully") so I wound up turning the proofing bowl upside down over the pot. I didn't want to burn myself - the pot was preheating in a 475F oven after all. That "splat!" probably didn't help my efforts.

Anyone like baking bread and have any pointers? I won't even start on my many attempts to make a sourdough starter (after several days and feedings there has never been any sign of activity and I've thrown the whole thing out).

Simple thing for getting bread to be crusty is to put a small pie pan of hot water in the oven while baking it.

Alternatively, if you want a soft crust (a la wonderbread) brush the crust with some milk before baking.

My favorite bread book is Elizabeth David’s English Bread and Yeast Cookery, by the way.


As for where you started with questions, what flour are you using?

I also think most people try to get their dough to rise too fast. A longer rise at a lower temperature works best.

Thanks, yes, baking it in the Dutch oven makes it crusty (it bakes in its own steam). I actually like the crust on my bread, that's not the issue.

For this bread, I followed the recipe in the book for 75% whole wheat single-day bread. I used 3 parts King Arthur whole wheat flour and 1 part grocery store-brand all purpose flour.

I let it rise for about six hours...it never tripled in size like the recipe said but it did double. Then when I shaped it and did the final proof it had shrunk again (because of the shaping). I followed the book's suggestion of poking it with a finger to determine when the proofing was done...if you poke it and the indentation springs back slowly and incompletely, it's ready.

We use a recipe similar to this one... https://joyfoodsunshine.com/easy-no-knead-bread/

By the time you let it proof overnight, it doesn't matter how you get it into the dutch oven.

Yeah, that's actually the NY Times's no-knead recipe. I've made it a couple times and it turns out well. My question I guess is more on technique and what I'm doing wrong (difficult to diagnose over FlyterTalk, I know...).

If I could find any flour at the store I'd try again!

Put the dough on parchment paper, and lower it into the Dutch oven using the parchment. The parchment is oven safe.

Use Jim Lahey’s recipe/technique. This is the best recipe I have ever found. “..use lightly floured hands to gently and quickly lift the edges of the dough in toward the center, effectively folding the dough over onto itself. Nudge and tuck in the edges of the dough to make it round. That’s it. Don’t knead the dough”. Do it on parchment and then just flip it over into the pot.

https://leitesculinaria.com/99521/re...ead-bread.html

The Tassajara Bread Book. Very clear, illustrated directions that give you a good basis from which to try other things. (I can vouch for the '72 edition. I read that later editions aren't as good.)

I also do Jim Lahey's recipe (same as NYT 18 hour recipe). I've made a lot of loaves of it. I just ate some toast with rye bread and caraway seeds (and peanut butter after toasting) that I made yesterday.

Here's a video of Lahey doing it.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=13Ah9ES2yTU

I just slide the oven rack out and plop the dough in off the towel - I don't flip it into my hand first like he does in the video. It usually looks like a mess after the plop and the loaf comes out pretty anyway.

A few tips:
- get a couple cheap digital scales (one that does kg range for flour and water, one with mg resolution and ~100g range for yeast and salt).
- Weigh your ingredients, including water. 1 mL water = 1 gram. There's a lot of variation among measuring cups that claim to be the same size.
- experiment a bit with how much water you need, and weigh the extra you put in. There are variations in flour and humidity of where you are that will make you want more or less water. I've been doing 320 g of water lately for 300g bread flour+100g rye or whole wheat. I also like to do 250g bread/100 g whole wheat/ 50 g spelt.
- a silicone dough scraper is convenient for getting the dough out of the bowl, though not required.
- I used to have a nice setup where I had an old laptop setup as a server and I put a vented shoebox over it and I'd put the bowls of dough over it to rise. That's not running anymore, so I got a temperature controller and a and I throw the temp sensor and lamp in the oven with the temp controller set to 80F for the overnight rise. You don't have to be that extreme, but someplace warm to rise is important. I like breads that have overnight rises more than when they're sped up with sugar for the yeast.
- and I love the bon appetit videos, so here's one of claire and brad making sourdough. The BA videos are nice because they do show people cooking for real and messing things up and making things up on the fly.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=oidnwPIeqsI

- If you can't get bread flour, you can dope all purpose with about 1 tbsp vital wheat gluten flour per cup (keeping the total amount of flour the same) to get the gluten content up to bread flour levels.

This video (and others from the same gentleman) is super-useful IMHO. He's got another one post-quarantine showing baking from home without access to all the pro gear, too.


You don't have to do sourdough, either; a lot of the same concepts apply to yeast-leavened breads. For example, I have been making a poolish, or basically a 50-50 blend of water & flour with a bit of instant yeast added, which you then let ferment for a couple of hours before adding to the dough, and it's has worked out great albeit without the added flavor of the sourdough ferment.

that even can work in a bread machine with some experimentation.

It sounds like your flour mix is too low in gluten. Try adding gluten. And 6 hours to double is a lot. You might try letting it rise in a warmer place. I have a huge bathroom, so I sometimes put a bowl of dough on the far end of the counter while I take a bubble bath.